Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Weekly Roundtable Discussion (Week Ending 6-21-04)

Savauge
Sat Jun 19, 2004 10:32 am
#105



State of the Game - From A Player's Perspective for the Devs


*or whatSWG,Publish 10, etc. looks like froma player'sperspective




Hi there Devs & players alike!


SWG is a great MMORPG, and I do thank the Devs for all their hard work. When I went to Fan Fest, it was evident the Devs mostly had a lot of passion for the game. Personally, I've tried almost all the MMO's out there, and SWG is my choice!


That being said,

From a "player in the trenches" aspect, I help lead a guild of about 70 active players who are a mix of combat and crafting professions, and PvPers. With a guild this size, we typically have all the major crafting professions as well as major combat profs. With that preface, in many ways our guild environment is a microcosm of what happens when something is changed or enhanced in SWG.


Over the past few months, we've seen:

- A Chef revamp that made folks regrind just to make the awesome stuff! Player base response was to pay Chefs whatever they wanted. I believe GreenMarine planned this revamp, well done.

- Cool enhancements to the UI like the Group "closest wp monitor".

- Some very well designed challenges in the Corvette and DWB.

-A DE publish that caused the most veteran, consistent DE's to resign their profession. This was mainly due to a lack of any true meaning for the DE profession's output - droids. Other than mobile crafting stations and the occasional combat R3, we still don't see a lot of droid use in the game.

- A mini-ID revamp. Simply put, on Ahazi, we've seen ID's become more scarce than even before ID revamp. And the result is a very frustrating wait sometimes for players waiting for a needed stat migration.

- Increased focus on Jedi revamp, to the exclusion of almost all else recently. Honestly, most players I know do not have Jedi. It has been shown by your own posts Jedi are a very tiny % of the population. Yet, the Jedi revamp has superceded even the once-hoped-for GCW revamp. I'd ahve to say most of the people I know are looking at Publish 9 as the "anti-regular-player Publish" since there won't be a lot for the rest of us.

- GCW revamp cancelled/postponed past JtL - This sent shivers through the table I was at at Fan Fest that GCW is so far down the timeline in the Dev's timetable. From a player's perspective, our entire guild and the friendsI know were hoping for a refined, mature GCW revamp that makes the GCW the "elder game" for vets and the true faction war for PA's and cities.

- A major CraftingRevamp that was revoked the following day due to unexpected negative response from the player base.


Now, all of this above most players have experienced to varying degrees. With this in mind, Publish 10 (Combat Revamp) is now just around the corner.

I have to ask the Devs a few questions on this, but first here is what is going through the player base as to the direction of Publishes: Due to the last few profession revamps, and the only noticeable player favorite being Chef, all are cringing at what Publish 10 could mean to the players.


Players who have combat templates mastered have spent hours learning each and every special and it's effects on PvE and PvP, and then redesigning their combat and enhancing with expensive weapons and armor. Now, the unknown Publish 10's repercussions are already being discussed in game/in forum. The debate is getting pretty intense already, with people on both sides of the fence as to why this is a good or bad thing. The most common player thought is: remove the exploited weapons/items,fix the too powerful professions, and be done with it. Unfortunately, the Devs responses at Fan Fest and in the Forums here have made it clear that they will need to revamp all crafted combat related items in the game, including pre-patch items along with the Special revamp and HAM revamps. Publish 10 was jokingly referred to by almost all Devs at the Fan Fest as the "Combat Nerf" not Revamp.


My impression at Fan Fest of the Devs' motivation behind the "Combat Nerf" was stated in one panel there very clearly - a Dev stated that all of combat has been broken and unbalanced from the very beginning of the game a year ago. A Dev said they want to fix all of combat at one time and do minor tweaks after for bugs and unintended consequences until it's where the Devs want it to be. The way the revamp was described, it will be sweeping and touch all professions, all skills, and all players.


Imagine the result to dedicated combat veterans when the character they've had for months is now going to be worthless to them. The combat they're used to, the items they've invested in, most will be changed dramatically. Worthless is a strong word, but look at it from the player's viewpoint. And it is being generally expected that combat profession grinding and xp will be effected so that grinding through a profession will take much longer after Publish 10. If this is true (like in the ID revamp), then it will take dramatically longer than people are used to, to grind into another profession.


For the most dedicated combat veterans, who have put months of hard work into refining their combat strategies, a pre-Nerf mourning is already taking place. For obvious reasons, they are assuming their love of the game (combat as it is now) has become an unknown quantity. The idea of going into Test Center to try the Nerf out is a good one, but realistically, the majority of players can't grind an elite profession on TC and still have time to test it properly. Because of these factors, this "mourning" is already becoming a serious issue.


So, my questions to the Devs:

1- This Combat Nerf once released will have a huge, sweeping effect on the ground game. In other MMORPG's (most noticeable AO & AC2), vast amounts of players cancelled their accounts when a similarly sweeping combat rebalance was implemented. It is being implemented from a Dev viewpoint of "it's been broken so long, we need to bring it into the originally planned scenario we had". Have you really, truly put yourselves in the shoes of players who love the game as it is and thought about the consequences?

*I am not "threatening to cancel" my own account, but trying to speak for what will inevitably happen. It has happened many times in other MMORPG's and will happen in SWG with Publish 10. Human nature is that when you've spent a ton of time in something you lvoe to develop it, and then it is gone, there is a void and a "mourning" that can cause people to cancel.

2- Regardless of the "combat tables are skewed we must revamp all of it" response we've gotten on this, have you thought about what will happen if the Combat Nerf is as unpopular as the Crafting revamp was, when you had to remove it the next day? And is there any possible way to simply remove all exploited items and fix overpowered professions, instead of the wholesale Nerf?

3- Have you thought of the effect on veteran players who have been waiting for an "elder game" to spend their time on, and now they will have to reinvent their characters?


We all realize this is your baby too And that a sincere amount of effort and pride of what you have designed in SWG is a big part of the motivation here. Not to mention, having a ground game that is solid for JtL's release. I guess we are all scratching our heads wondering why it has to be such a humongous step backwards (in our minds) versus what we had hoped would be profession revamps and exploited item/situation fixes.


So as not to seem entirely negative, I must say JtL looks fantastic and I look forward to it!


Thoughts from a concerned SWG fanatic.


Thanks!



-----------------------------------------------------------
Savaugus Legacius
Master Architect
Legacy Inc (L INC) Co-founder

For the best items in the Ahazi galaxy, from Houses to Vehicles, from Stims to Spices, from Rare Resources to Krayt Pieces - visit our vendors in Legacia, Rori!

Most vendors are in Town Square by our Shuttleport, but make sure to look around, use CTRL + M for our Master Crafters special vendors.

May the Schwartz be with you---ouuo---ouooo- ahh what a world.....
_Kwok
Sat Jun 19, 2004 11:00 am
#106

Why oh why is there capacity for 50 player cities on the remote and frankly boring planet of Lok and only 20 on Tatooine? Im a master politician and have recently placed a city on tat only to have to apologise to my 75 citizens that we cannot have a shuttleport because tatooine is capped. When will this situation be addressed?
DarkHybrid108
Sat Jun 19, 2004 11:50 am
#107

k



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Never shall the blood of the innocent be shed yet the blood of the wicked shall flow free and the three shall spread their blackened wings and be the thundering hammer of god!
LordBaryon
Sun Jun 20, 2004 7:26 am
#108


Please please please give us an option to go where we want to go in a decent amount of time.


Yesterday I logged in and was in the Mining Outpost on Dantooine.


I recieved an e-mail that my harvesters on Lok needed maintenance. To get there i had to go to Corellia, then Naboo, then Lok and had to do the reverse to get back to the grind on Dant.


I had the worst luck ever catching the shuttles. This process took me about an hour. Luckily it was the weekend. If I had logged in with a "mere" two hours of gameplay available my night would have been ruined.


Devs-Can we pretty pretty please with a cherry on top get an option for a direct ticket from one starport to another starport of our choosing?


It wouldn't ruin immersion because it could be likened to chartering a space flight. Make it very expensive say 15K or so for a one-way trip. This could also aid in providing another credit sink to aid the ever inflating SWG economy.


I for one yesterday would not have had a problem paying a large sum of creds to do what I needed to do so I could get back to the grind.


Thanks for reading


Cymek

Intrepid



Cymek
2 ACCOUNTS CANCELED
FOREVER


mmaughme
Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:31 pm
#109

I am so utterly pissed at you people right now. FIX OUR DAMN BIKES SO THEY STOP DISAPPEARING WHILE WE'RE RIDING THEM!!!!!




Fichesi Ishott, Ex-Jedi Wannabe ~ Scout | Bio-Engineer | Musician | Dancer | Entertainer
Tailor | Ranger | Creature Handler | Carbineer | Image Designer | Armorsmith | ...Silent...
Rifleman | Artisan | Droid Engineer | Chef | Weaponsmith | Architect | Medic | Combat Medic
Marksman | Doctor | Pikeman | Brawler | Fencer (in progress) | Publish 9 (sigh) | Cancelled

Getoc
Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:27 pm
#110

TH i would like to ask a simple question from the armorsmith POV ....... after the combat/gcw revamp will encumb matter or can it still be bypassed with buffs like today ?



Get'toc : Elder Jedi - Farstar day 1 player - Proud of wearing the 'Teras Kasi Elder Titile' to honor the coolest profession there has ever been in SWG . Black Epsilon Pilot Ace .

Xanea : Trader - Master Shipdesigner and RSF Pilot Ace / Xaneas Shipyard at Arakeen on Lok (closed atm because of spaceloot sickness)

Sharres : Spy by nature and RSF Pilot Ace , Smuggler Pilot Ace , Black Epsilon Pilot Ace and acutal Corsec Pilot Ace
NorbertH
Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:34 am
#111

What i want to know is WHY are the Servers still DOWN EVERY DAY FOR 2 Hours+ ?
I mean you once told us all "that will only be while Beta last" TH so you say this game is still Beta after 14 Month ?
Sorry but slowly im Really f..ked up by those Daily Downtimes.



Proud Member of SUN
Master Armorer (+25) and Weaponsmith

Predalein Armor INC.
Tent right outside the Shuttleport
SUN City, Tatooine
Loc 6352 3818
jphillips1868
Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:19 am
#112

This problem is really becoming game breaking. Last night I was running 26K Janta and Mokk destroy missions out of the Mining Outpost. About 3/4ths of the time, I was not getting paid for missions. I got so frustrated I just quit for the night, with over a hour left on my buffs.


I know this bug is well known among players and I hope DEVs (/crossfingers), but for those lucky enough not to have experienced it I'll briefly summarize. After destroying the mission's lair, you are awarded the xp for destroying the lair, but the waypoint and mission remain active and you are not given the reward. You have not choice but to destroy the mission in your data pad and move on. In the past, it seemed that this would happen to me only occasionally, but it isbecoming more and moreprevelent.


Do the Dev's have a plan/timetable for correcting this significant problem.


Thanks.
Djibutul
Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:04 pm
#113

2 things I'm curious about right now...

Is the Publish still on schedule for tomorrow?
Is there anything planned to celebrate SWG's 1-year anniversary?

Thanks,

Djibutul
Kade_Deveron
Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:07 pm
#114

While Im glad to see Jedi getting set straight, I hate the fact that critical issuses such as the combat balance and the GCW updates are being put off for it. Jedi impacts a fraction of players. The GCW is DYING; partly out of a lack of any motivators to participate, and partly due to a severely imbalanced combat system. What is the timetable on these issues? Three months? Six months? Not ranting exactly, but I've lost a lot of guildmates over boredom, etc...



-----------------------------
Khade Deveron

TygerBlueEyes
Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:08 pm
#115

TH means Sandbox I think.



I also agree it appears the Dev team is way to small. SOE and LA needs to put more assets on the live team and dont pull them off to do expanses. I do believe the player pop belives the Devs is always falling behind in getting old bugs fixed and the Dev team is too small. Prime example is Q coming in working NPC conversation text.





[My new sig]

I'm out of here! I'll be hunting wabbit, again...
O'los 'Zulis - Flurry
mmaughme
Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:12 pm
#116

I disagree that Jedi are only a small number of players. If this were the case, how do you explain the thousands of AFK holo-grinding entertainers in the cantinas for the past six months?A lot of people want to be Jedi.


But I also suspect the impending patch will be the end of my SWG career. I created a bothan in the beginning, for RP purposes. Having played a bothan, and understanding well how much their stats suck, and how miserable it can be to play such a short character, I don't want my main character becoming Jedi. None of the existing Jedi were forced to play their mains as Jedi, I don't want to be forced to play my main as Jedi.


"Oh, but you can do the Padawan Trials with your new character." F that. After grinding 22 professions, I have no intention of repeating the grind, with a new character, on a series of unknown quests. I don't want to see the new Jedi penalized just because weren't lucky enough to chose the proper set of professions to grind before this patch game along.




Fichesi Ishott, Ex-Jedi Wannabe ~ Scout | Bio-Engineer | Musician | Dancer | Entertainer
Tailor | Ranger | Creature Handler | Carbineer | Image Designer | Armorsmith | ...Silent...
Rifleman | Artisan | Droid Engineer | Chef | Weaponsmith | Architect | Medic | Combat Medic
Marksman | Doctor | Pikeman | Brawler | Fencer (in progress) | Publish 9 (sigh) | Cancelled

Whitus
Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:13 pm
#117






Thunderheart wrote:






Whitus wrote:

Any word on why exactly people who have allready unlocked also get their mains turned instantly Force Sensitve?


I haven't seen any reports of this yet. Do you see this happening on live now?







This is the way I have gathered it is going to operate, even ArjunThakur's Jedi Punchlist v1.2 suggests this is the case:



Point 6. Both characters becoming Force Sensitive when you unlock in the new system, or at the very least an option box to choose which character you want FS.


As a matter of fairness, both characters should be FS....to give that reward to people that unlock before publish 9 only is very unfair and will leave permanent bitterness.


Perhaps I have it wrong?






_Whit Anexus________
http://www.aartanridge.org.uk

FarStar - European Server
Unlocked Fri. 18th June 2004

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