CUEmu - Thread Posts

Shazeen

Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:18 pm

In regards to the section on smugglers:

This sounds decent enough, although I know the rest of the smuggler community (myself included) was expecting more. With that being said however, I do see this as a good start.

One thing that truly concerns me however is the mission system. What incentive do masters have to get involved here? And even more importantly, what incentive does a master have to complete the mission if they do get involved!? The only way such a system can work is if you get bounties involved. If a master smuggler decides not to complete the mission, then he should show up on the BH terminals. This absolutely HAS to happen. A majority of smugglers want something like this, so dont worry about forcing PvP onto them. Also, if you are truly worried about it, then you can put a prompt in the mission that warns the smuggler of the consequences of failure. This is extremely important TH, without it the whole system is absolutely worthless!!!

p.s. Stop posting in HTML, you make it impossible for us to quote you!

~ Blanchbaca ~ Master Rifleman / Master Chef ~ Flurry || Orim ~ Master Pistoleer / Master Smuggler ~ Scylla ~

Rikilii

Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:19 pm

#106

DeQuosaek wrote:

Rikilii wrote:

DeQuosaek wrote:

Are we sure that the Combat Medic's range is not being misinterpreted?

Example: Let's say I have an Area Poison that has an Area of effect 32m and there isenemyA is 64m away AND enemyB is 96m away and the poison is thrown at enemyA and also affects enemyB. I think enemyB might see that the CM is 96m away and assume the poison was thrown that far, when that isn't the case.

Can anyone verify?

Also, shouldn't the issue really be something like, "Combat Medics have no reduction in damage in PvP?"

It is definitely possible directly to hit a target at 96m. With AOE, I can hit an indirect target that is even further away.

The 75% PVP reduction has been discussed ad nauseum, and in combination with the upcoming 64m limitation, Mind Poison mitigation spice, reduced emphasis on Mind hits, would render poisonsutterly useless, and Disease a total joke. The best non-venom-enhanced poison (single target) currently can be crafted for 350 effectiveness with perfect resources. That's 70 dps when thrown by a master. If the 75% reduction is applied, it would only be 17.5 dps, which is right around the regeneration rate of a fully buffed target. Keep in mind, that's the theoretical maximum, not actually obtainable with actual resources.

So you're syaing that with both targets standing still poison can be thrown 90 meters? If this is true, it should be able to be reproduced with a single target poison as well. I'll have to find my best resources and give it a try. Last time I experimented all in range, it still wasn't throwable farther than 64m.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating a 75% reduction per se.Just some sort of reduction. And yes, I know most claims against CMs are greatly exhaggerated. You always hear that someone was hit and 2 seconds later it ticked for 1200 damage, and that's simply not true. It takes several seconds for poisons to tick and they don't do that much damage.

You can experiment them up to 48m range, which will go 96m in the hands of a master CM. This will require putting all or most of your experimentation in the ADM and the final combine, into range.

I can't say that I ever use these, since I get about 80m on the packs I experiment for effectiveness. But the best way to test this is to have you and your target 96m apart, standing still for at least a few seconds (to avoid any deception caused by lag), and then see if you can hit him.

---------------------------------------------------

Ahazi: Tekhap Ybrae--Former CM and Homeless Nublar Extraordinaire.

TC: Avaro Tribec--Co-founder of the TC-GCW, and Self Proclaimed Leader of the Imperial Legions

CairnTrenor

Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:20 pm

#107

Ghost151 wrote:

Thunderheart wrote:

mythronde wrote:
TH, can you kindly answer on which professions, if certs will be added, will be able to use mandalorian armor? BH's would love to have some lovin' sooner than later if you know what I mean
Certs for Mandalorian armor will be: Bounty Hunter, Commando, Ranger and Squad Leader

So basicly you're saying you're adding a new dungeon in a game with 30+ professions and only 4 are going to benefit from it? What's the point?

From what I've understood there are more stuff than just mandalorian armor available from the deathwatch dungeon, like the new pistol, new TKA weapon etc...

Cairn Trenor
Master Bounty Hunter
Master Carbineer

electricnomad

Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:23 pm

#108

That plan for a Smuggler revamp is as weak and as worthless as the most cynical Smuggler could have devised on the rainiest of days.

I'll post in orange for old time's sake.

Thunderheartwrote:

Smuggler

What will smugglers gain in the upcoming revamp in regards to actually smuggling?" where you could go in detail about how you are making missions and such, giving an XP system it seems, or other things that will be good for them to know.

We are in the midst of putting together the design doc and looking at the alternatives now. The current plan to increase the fun-ability of the Smuggler Class is to enhance the existing skill onion. Since the communities focus is the desire to increase smuggling, the focus of the revamp will be on the underworld tree. We want to start with specialized delivery missions that provide both monetary and itemized rewards, but also special favors from the travel system NPCs. This would make smugglers an important hub in smuggling people from place to place by helping them get around the 10 minute Star Port wait, generate some cash flow and create a real value for Smugglers. The other edge of that sword is that tying into the travel system and creating new missions is a huge effort. Once that is accomplished, we will tweak the spices (and hopefully add a couple of new ones). After that the priority hits the Smuggler’s melee abilities. We want to increase the smuggler’s ability to use melee to move in and around superior forces and be able to work his or her way out of a tough spot. We can also further tweak the Smuggler’s combat role in the combat balance. That’s a pretty good overview of the current approach.

I’ll offer you some more details here, but ultimately, they will create more questions to which the answer is, “that work is in progress”. Some of the details for things we want to include are:

Slicing features that would be a kind of equipment buff programs

Datadiscs to further adventure similar to treasure maps

Ethical decisions that effect the smugglers reputation (basically, the new smuggler missions would be XP based and focused on…well…smuggling So the smuggler would have to “smuggle” phat loot from one NPC to another without getting caught and if the smuggler chose to deliver the item, the get the XP. If they didn’t, well, it would be an XP hit, but they would keep the item…)

Adding new spices.

Glitterstim: (Master Smuggler); Boost to Health, Strength, Action, Quickness, Mind, Force Power Max Force Power Regeneration

Liik: (Spice III): Mind Poison Mitigation

Slicing: Adding a vehicle durability slice. / A smuggler mission loot item might be required.

This is a peek at what we are working very hard to get into the game….

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=in_live&message.id=13305&page=1

So there you go - the Smuggler revamp plan. Yep, Caylin the Smuggler Correspondentsays that's most of it right there.

Let's go over it piece by piece and evaluate the utility of those additions, and whether they count as Smuggling.

1) Slicing features that would belike "equipment buff programs" ==> Not so specific, eh? Doesn't seem much different than slicing as it is right now, since they are equipment buff programs. No reason to get terribly excited for this.

==> VERDICT = NOT SMUGGLING; BUFF BOT STATUS

2) Datadiscs to "further adventure like treasure maps" ==> We all know how exciting it is to run 500 meters from town, use a disc, get aggroed by two generic thugs, and loot some CDEF loot. It's interesting for the first one or two times and then you usually destroy the treasure maps. Be very afraid that the Devs want to stick us with treasure map-style "adventure."

==> VERDICT = NOT SMUGGLING; CDEF RECOVERY FOR JAWAS

3) Delivery missions where you can steal the loot ==> So instead of "Slice Monkey," we earn the name "Loot Whore." Ask yourself how many missions in SWG have EVER been genuinely exciting and worth repeating. I can think of a handful. Running the same "Should I steal this or not?" mission will get old after a day or two. This does not sound like it will offer much in the way of longterm satisfaction, and will turn into a loot grind rather than anything truly enjoyable.

==> VERDICT = HALF SMUGGLING, HALF THEFT, ALL BORING

4) New spices ==> Two new spices. Not a whole lot to look forward to. No real mention that the other spices are mostly worthlerss and need a dramatic overhaul, not just a "tweak." And if this is the Devs' answer to overpowered Combat Medics and an over-emphasis on Mind damage, this does not bode well for the game itself.

==> VERDICT = NOT SMUGGLING; MORE METH LAB

5) Adding a vehicle durability slice ==> This is shrugworthy at best. Of all the interesting things to do with vehicles -- speed, cornering, etc -- this is probably the least interesting I could think of. And of all the possible things we have wanted to add to sliceable status, this would be a pretty low priority on most Smugglers' lists.

==> VERDICT = NOT SMUGGLING; TURTLE WAX

6) Helping peoplebypass the 10-minute Starport wait ==> Interesting enough, but depending on how easy it is to do, this could easily be a dumpster-tossable ability that people stop performing soon after it's available. This makes no mention of the TRULY desirable ability - point to point shuttling to anywhere in the galaxy. What's the true value of avoiding a 10-minute wait to move to another port? One minute of time? A few thousand credits? This is low-rent stuff no matter how you think about it.

==> VERDICT = NOT SMUGGLING; ALLOWING PEOPLE TO CUT IN LINE

7) Increased abilities to move around and avoid enemies ==> Interesting, and potentially useful, but step back and ask a question - how do you ever get XP if all you ever do is avoid fighting? There's a systematic problem with this that the Devs haven't mentioned, and it's the fact that running is almost never in your interest in this game. It's certainly never rewarded in any way.

==> VERDICT =POTENTIALLY USEFUL IF THERE WERE EVER REAL SMUGGLING

Now that we've reviewed what HAS been mentioned, let's get to the even more important list - what HASN'T been mentioned. If the Devs have good news, they typically like to toss it all out for people to see. Considering that in another thread, Caylin noted that "that wasmost of the revamp doc," you shouldn't expect that the Devs have any Aces up their sleeves that they aren't playing, and what you see is what we're getting.

Let's consider the big issues on which Thunderheart is silent:

1) Player-Based Smuggling ==> The number one request that the community has had since Beta was player-based smuggling, and it was recentlydismissed by the Devs because they think it would be too much trouble to code. I mention it only because this is the ONLY thing that will ever give Smuggler lasting content, and without it, this profession will never have a real focus. And the Devs have said they won't implement it.

2) Spice Experimentation ==> This has been one of the top community issues since launch. Not only was there any mention of seriously overhauling spices, there was no mention at all of any experimentation. Without experimentation, we will be stuck with the current situation where any crafter uses castoff resources to make spice, allowing them to pawn off their trash and undercut the community. The current spice system is fundamentally flawed. Thunderheart makes no indication that it is going to change.

3) Missions to acquire spice rather than just make it ==> This has been another big request since we saw it happen in Deadeye 3. This would eliminate the "100 unit schematic" undercutters and put Smugglers back in control of the spice market. It is not mentioned.

4) Slicing Options ==> No mention of allowing a pick-o-slice option or adding experimentation to the process. No mention of a "super slice" for a Smugglers' own weapons. No mention of anything at the top of our lists since launch, in other words.

5) Contraband and the community ==> There was no mention of adding significant penalties for being caught with contraband. There was no mention of pulling contraband off of vendors and the bazaar. There was no mention of ending Imperial Immunity or the Droid Loophole. In short, the flawed Crackdown -- the prototypefor what SHOULD be land-based smuggling -- is being left in its broken, useless state.

I could go on and on. There are 10 months of live posts and countless Beta posts that the Devs have to fall back on. They have culled the least useful ideas and put them into our revamp document. They have addressed none of our core concerns. They have clearly not understood the desires of the community or the priorities that we had for a revamp.

A revamp proposal as fundamentally worthless as this makes makes it clear that yes, the Fred Sanford Trashman minigame fits perfectly into the Devs' "vision" ofthe Smuggler profession.

"We're dedicating a designer (Green Marine) next week to looking into fixing some of the bigger issues of the smuggler. (Yes, we are also looking at issues with the other professions, the smuggler just seems to be the one needing the most love at this moment)." Q-3PO - September 16, 2003
Great Threads in Smuggler History, Vol. I / Vol. II / Vol. III - Collected Posts by the Devs Concerning Smugglers
***ELECTRICNOMAD RETIRED FROM SWG ON 7 MAY 2004***

The_Great_Destroyer

Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:25 pm

#109

Yikes, there's some big discussions going on in here. My only real question is if Mandalorian armor is supposed to be a big treat for BHs, what happens to us Wookiee BHs? Shafted again?

Destroyer

GRWRRHHGGAAGHUHURR

>Official Stamp of Disapproval on the CU <
...has fathered half of the Eclipse population

WarFerret

Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:27 pm

#110

Tuanga wrote:

Wow, thats a big middle finger to the AS profession, and everyone else who wanted Mandalorian. Proof that the devs have no freaking clue.

Get over it, only a handful of people should be wearing Mandalorian, the only problem I can see with the new certs is the number of Commando/TKAs we see running around wearing the things, I guarantee you this will be the template du jour when the armour goes live.

.. and no, that's not a nerf call, just what I expect will happen, I just hope that the cert does go in the master box, those professions could certainly use some defences, hopefully the armour will do that, as I say, the only concern I have is that TKA stacks pretty well with commando.

---
Ississ - FarStar - Master Doctor/Master Heavy Swordsman.

"If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands." - Douglas Adams

Grendelwyf

Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:30 pm

#111

TH, as far as the lightsaber revamp goes, will old (pre-revamp) lightsabers be grandfathered in to the new system? i am guessing (hoping) lightsaber dmg type will be changed, but will it only affect sabers crafted after the patch? the reason i ask is because i would like to know if i should wait to make another saber until after the revamp. i don't want to waste the pearls i have been saving to make a pvp saber if they won't take on the new damage type when it comes.

Buliwyf - Master Rifleman/Master CM
Hrungnir - Master Armorsmith(+125 Exp/+122 Assembly)
Valhalla Armory Coronet, Corellia (540, -5212)
"I gotta have my {VA}"

MathiusStonehammer

Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:32 pm

#112

mythronde wrote:
TH, can you kindly answer on which professions, if certs will be added, will be able to use mandalorian armor? BH's would love to have some lovin' sooner than later if you know what I mean

Certs for Mandalorian armor will be: Bounty Hunter, Commando, Ranger and Squad Leader

Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
Assistant Community Manager

This includes wookiee's right??

woolie

Tuanga

Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:40 pm

#113

"Get over it, only a handful of people should be wearing Mandalorian, the only problem I can see with the new certs is the number of Commando/TKAs we see running around wearing the things, I guarantee you this will be the template du jour when the armour goes live. "

Actually my feelings are no one should be wearing it. I haven't wanted it in the game from the start. Only way it should ever be in is have 2 full sets where all the pieces are broken up and scattered all over, and you have to be extremely lucky just to find one.

-----------------------------------
Tuanga - Bloodfin
12 point Master Armorsmith --- Crafter of Fine RIS Armor

Accounts cancelled 8/1/2004

Utsanomiko

Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:41 pm

#114

The_Great_Destroyer wrote:
Yikes, there's some big discussions going on in here. My only real question is if Mandalorian armor is supposed to be a big treat for BHs, what happens to us Wookiee BHs? Shafted again?

Don't tell me Wookiees (well, Wookiees orther than mine) were actually expecting to wear Mandalorian armor? They're 8 foot tall walking carpets; they'd be lucky to fit a helmet over their hands. Wookiee armor was a necessity (and not necessarily incontinuity), but Mandalorian armor for Wookiees... Whatever, serriously.

I find it odd how the same community that constantly lists 'doesn't fit SW continuity' as a major SWG fault also expects features to be inculded that just don't fit continuity or basic logic.

I suppose Imperial Rodian Pikeman are still requesting that the Empire hand out Royal Guard helmets to army recruits that magically fit over their dust-buster faces...

-----------
DEV'S SPOUSE: "Not getting anything for my birthday or anniversaries is very disappointing. You could at least buy me flowers or a card."
DEV: "The response I'm getting is that you'd rather wait for the possibility of original gifts."

kayxfour

Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:42 pm

#115

I am happy with these answers. I understand that most of them don't provide any real info, but this is the style of communication that we need. Less "were looking into it" and more honest answers.

=============================================
*Please deliver auction winnings to my vendor unless specified
*In-game name kayxfour
*Kay's Place and Sales, hundreds of loot items available! -4850, 3000 just outside of Theed
*Currently in persuing RIS and all its wonders... 7 peices to go!
*Currently 4/1/1/1 jedi initate, sick of the grind already

WarFerret

Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:48 pm

#116

Tuanga wrote:

Actually my feelings are no one should be wearing it. I haven't wanted it in the game from the start. Only way it should ever be in is have 2 full sets where all the pieces are broken up and scattered all over, and you have to be extremely lucky just to find one.

Well, let's see how much of a pain in the arse it is to get the stuff first, I can only hope the cert is in the master box, but if it's as awkward to get hold of as RIS armour (bearing in mind how fast armour degrades) I don't think it'll be too popular.

---
Ississ - FarStar - Master Doctor/Master Heavy Swordsman.

"If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands." - Douglas Adams

Ghost151

Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:50 pm

#117

Thunderheart,

By your own admission almost all the response's say wait for the Combat Rebalance. This should say something like maybe the rebalance is needed now and not later.

Nearly everything in this game revolves around combat in one form or another, be it the actual combat oriented players or the crafting professions that support them or the support professions that heal them. Why is the combat rebalance not the highest priority on the Dev's list of things to do? I understand that the Jedi community has some issue's, I have a Jedi myself, but overall they are a minor portion of the player base at this point.

The whole concept of adding more before fixing what is broken make's little sense becasue in the end you simply add more broken things to the list that need to be fixed and pushing things that have been on that list further down in priority.

Combat Rebalance is needed now not later.

Thanks.

Development Cycle Archive

Thread: 19 Answers 4-29-04