Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Great Expectations, Major Schedule Changes and making SWG the finest MMORPG ever
PadawanChong
Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:35 am
#1041
Krayvex wrote:
What should bother everyone as much as the timeline is the way SOE handled it. It has been falsely advertised to an almost fraudulent level. Anytime any profession had a problem, it was always, "the combat balance will fix everything." A May producer letter that said, "We are cranking on the Combat Balance, ". Cranking away, huh? They've known for weeks that the CB was not going to happen soon, maybe even months. Yet we still kept hearing about how it will solve all our problems. They knew players were holding out, and continuing to keep their accounts live, just for the CB.
I know they have a business to run and that the loss of this many accounts cant be good, but there are just things you don't do. Do the SOE suits and producers have autographed pictures of Kenneth Lay on their desks? What they did wasn't cool. My account wouldn't have been active for the last few months if I had known earlier. Sucks to be screwed out of any amount of money. Better that I learn from it i guess. I know all I need to know about SOE now. I guess the best thing to do with SOE is assume everything they tell you is a lie, and then let them prove you wrong.
/signed
Couldn't have said it better myself. I don't think they even had a plan for what needed balancing, let alone got to working on it much.
DoodleMcdoodle
Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:36 am
#1042
BANING AND BLOCKING PEOPLE TO SILENCE THEM AINT GONNA HELP!!!
Never uying an expansion pack for a borked game
with all these people complaining SOE you should maybe reconsider what you guys are doing
Galiger
Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:38 am
#1043
LuthianP wrote:
Galiger wrote:
Well I know this post will be lost in the ocean of complaints but I just want to express my enjoyment in the game that you have created. It is unlike any game I have played in the past and in my eye is a very sucessful game. Please just do the best you can do and that is all that anyone, that is reasonable people, can ask.
I have extremely enjoyed the crafting and combat in this game and believe you are doing a wonderful job. People will always be unhappy with what you do... you are dealing with thousands of people - all of which have different ideas, dreams and wishes. You will never make a game that makes everyone happy... so set your goals and run with it, definately don't loss sleep over it... you're no good to anyone sleepy.
Good luck to you Thunderheart, and the rest of the Devs.
I personally thank-you for the game and the work you have done.
How long have you been playing SWG?
Sorry for taking so long to respond... I've been playing since 4-5 days from release... so I've been around for long enough.
BlackEdge
Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:40 am
#1044
OthrSixtoes wrote:
If you are not going to deliver then you owe us a couple of free months. It is only fair of you to take a loss after all the broken promises and issues this game is still suffering 1 year after launch.
If I rememember correctly, after a couple of weeks when EQ was first released (and it wasn't as bad as SWG), they actually did extend a free month or two along with the regular free month that game with EQ.
I also think UO did the same thing... thing was this was after a couple of months when they were released. Not a year after...
f33d84ck
Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:40 am
#1045
You screw up thecombat systembeyond repair? Then fire all your devs because funding doesnt allow them to continue cause everyone left the game?
UNREAL!!!!!
Should have fixed the GCW!!!!!!!!! BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ThePoun
Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:40 am
#1046
To the developers. Simple question. Did you really thing we would be ok with this?
Maxpax
Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:40 am
#1047
Questo gioco di merda e' gestito da un gruppo di idioti.
Fottetevi.
ADDIO
Enjoy the translation SOE
Chufles
Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:41 am
#1048
Hey Thunder-nerfing or whatever you wanna hero's names call...
What your customer say is... What a crap of Developers team you got???
Why you communicate to us your promotion like a big news???
We don't care your business i care the state of the game, and nowthat is crap again....
Ridiculous...
Korrack
Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:43 am
#1049
I just spent over an hour scanning through this thread. Needless to say my eyes are bleeding and I need some prozac. The varied responses on this thread scream for an explanation and some insight as to what has happened in this game over the past year.
All the hoopla over the one year anniversary, and a lot of things are still broken in the game. A lot has been fixed, a lot has been adjusted, and it seems from opinions stated here that we have a few varying understandings of the game.
I followed the game during development while I was playing Battlefield 1942. It looked like it would be great, a true Star Wars feel, great graphics, great gameplay, vehicles, spaceships, races galore. More content than you can ever imagine in a game. This looked to be THE game to play anywhere, and it looked like it would last forever and the term Evercrack would soon be replaced with Galaxiestacy.
Then game release time, out came the game without ships, without vehicles, but the players were so excited, they didn't care that half the game was broken, and the community was born. People came in droves to play Star Wars. So many 30something folks who were born on Luke Skywalker, Han Solo and Darth Vader. And a new breed of Anakin and Darth Maul wannabes came along for the ride.
We came, a lot was broken at first, but we still came in droves. Through repetative "NERF THIS!" and "I'M NOT AS STRONG AS HE IS!" complaints, we had multiple attempts at a "combat rebalance". I say that in italics as there was never really a combat rebalance. Just each month, a new profession would be nerfed or something would be added to make the complainer stronger. Each month a new profession would become agry and cry "NERF THIS!" and "I'M NOT AS STRONG AS HE IS!", and the cycle continued for a few months. When people would complain that they were weak or that they had nothing to play the game for, a "Shiney New Toy Of The Month" would be added. People would be happy while they ran off to collect he new bobble that they were offered up instead of worrying that their blaster was useless against a guy with a stick beating him to death in PvP.
This process continued for so many months and still continues today. Anyone who complains with a valid reason why their profession is useless or that the game is unbalanced is quickly greeted with a new quest which has an item they want. Geo Caves, Deathwatch, the Warren, so much of the game's shiney new and added content is a reactionary answer to the imbalance of the game. Instead of spending time to fix things correctly, the developers have provided us with new content to make us not notice all the broken content. And half of the new content would come out broken when it was added. Anyone vote for Victor in the first Bestine election?
Thunderheart is an ex-player. Now, I know he still plays, but honestly, his motivation is not the playerbase anymore or making us happy, it's getting his paycheck at the end of each week. And if I was in his position, it would be mine too. He is also not a developer and I would guess has little power in development scheduling. So we see his messages that he brings us. He tells us what he is told. Honestly, do you think anyone would lie constantly and tell us stuff to keep us hopeful and then have to apologize over and over? Of course not, he's relaying information and schedules he was given by management to give us. They plan to do things, things interupt, and the schedule goes pear shaped and Thunderheart has to come apologize and try and smooth things over. That is his job.
What completely boggles me in this whole process of promise, schedule, fail, apologize is that instead of focussing on the items they failed to deliver on time and actually getting them done, they go and add new stuff. About 4-6 months has been wasted. Yes I said wasted. On what? Jedi. When the game was developed and marketted, the only thing that even hinted at Jedi was part of a sentence on the box cover saying that you could be X and Y and Z professions, "or even a Jedi" (I don't have exact qote but it is similar if not that). As a result of this box cover, the rest of us who wanted to be smugglers, and bounty hunters, and stormtroopers get to sit back and watch 2%? of the people become the primary focus of the game while everything we have is broken. reading through this post, the only people not worried about combat rebalance are the Jedis.
Now I will admit, for most including me, it's a little bit of envy, and if Jedi were available to me, I'd be a Jedi. But I'm a casual player with a baby that was born in March 2004. I didn't truly attempt to grind holo professions, but since the game inception, I have tried every class, and I have mastered 10 professions. Not too shabby for someone not trying to become a Jedi. Again, for a long period of time (since last year) the focus of the game became on the hologrind and Jedi. Now I know I seem to be bashing Jedi, and I know they are part of the game, but so much else is broken that the larger percentage of paying customers appears completely unrepresented. Even the Jedi have to see that.
So, because the developers and the project managers have their mind set of Jedi and more customers, they spend so much time working on Jedi that everything else gets put on the back burner. Promises made and broken, schedules droped, hell, proposed changes get dropped and the playerbase forgets about promises made, and why? Because we'll offer them a SHINEY NEW TOY and they will become hypnotized and forget.
JTL is also taking up a huge amount of time. How about the people that won't be playing it? You do remember it's not a mandatory expansion pack right? So we move along to put our resources into Jedi and JTL. Two things that most of the playerbase isn't and never will be. I for one will try JTL, but with my arthritis, I might not be able to keep up and if I just keep flying into space, getting killed, rinse and repat, I'll uninstall the damned thing quick. We have seen 1 year of post release development, planning, promises and screw ups. We have also seen the developers work their asses off and provide us some brilliant content that any video game company out there would pay a ton for.
I am a player of SWG, I am not a Jedi, I am a just someone trying to find an hour or two of enjoyment playing this game each day or whever I can. Sometimes the SHINEY NEW TOY makes me forget that it now takes me upwards of a minute to change into my armor and wield a different weapon. Umm question, if bounty hunters have emphasis on 3 different weapons for combat, why the hell does it take them so long to swap weapons when fighting? Sorry, didn't mean to whine, didn't mean to call for a fix. Maybe you can give me a pod racer track to make me forget that my blaster can't beat a NPC who is hitting me with his fists.
So much developer and management effort into things that have nothing to do with this game, nothing to do with promises made over the last year, nothing to do with fixing things that you released broken. I'll be watching, and so will many others to see what you provide us. All I can say is, the project managers (HEY Q, YEAH YOU!) better start prioritizing the additions to this game, and seriously consider fixing before adding more things that will need fixing in months to come.
Keep promises, or hire a new crew. The players of this game pay the salaries of everyone over there in the little developer suites. I know this board only represents a small and vocal portion of the SWG community, but to be honest, most complaints here are valid, and when you admit a problem exists and it registers in the in-concept, you might want to consider putting it quickly into in-development and in-test before you start adding SHINEY NEW TOYS.
Sorry for my long winded post. I'm sure it will be 20 pages back in about an hour. I hope someone reads this and I hope to God that this game has a change of state and importance. It's not like they are developing a game in a closed box, they ask for input, maybe they need to start using that input to make the game more enjoyable for everyone, not just a small mass of people who complain the most.
lordofcat
Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:43 am
#1050
TH... this is a 'combat oriented' game... you used to call it an RPG, but you guys gave up on that over a year ago... (You made it clear that it's a MMO first, and RPG only if there's some free time at the end of the day...) Being that this is combat oriented... don't you think it would be critical to get something like combat balanced and 'fair' and 'equal'? So much has changed since the launch of the game, not one play style remains the same. What was enjoyable then, sucks now... What was impossible then, is laughably easy now...
THIS game has already been released (swg), it's over a year old, we've been paying to play it for over a year... and yet... the main key feature of the game is soo out of whack that a combat medic can do to a group of 20 commandos what a jedi was supposed to do... To get a decent mission... we've been forced to form what are called 'solo groups'... groups of people.. that get together... and run their own solo missions... using the group only so we can get missions that are actually slightly difficult. The only really difficult missions are ones where we only get to bring half a group, and we only have an hour to do it in... and there's only 9 of those in the game... (only 6 playable if you decided to RPG and take sides in the civil war...)
You give us quests like the hermit quest... 'hero of tatooine'... bad name... you should change it to 'ranger of tatooine'... cuz it takes a ranger just to find all the stuff.. then a newbie with a CDEF can finish off job... The hardest part of the rebel themepark quest... is... searching for the npc's that give you the missions! the missions themsleves are laughable... (I originaly did the jabba themepark with a character that only had novice pistoleer, and no other advanced profs, and that was only a 'mild challenge' because we didn't have vehicles/mounts or player cities (with shuttle ports) nearby.
You've got a game here.. that's over a year old... that you hanv't 'finished'... (yea.. you can argue that you can never finish an MMO... but you havn't even gotten this to the point where it's ready for release!) and you're already preparing to slam the first add-on onto it...
How about giving us what we've already paid for (and pay for every month), instead of rushing to get a new product to charge us more money for a game that works even less?
Ritorix
Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:46 am
#1051
I cant really say I'm surprised at this.
Balance has never been a priority with SWG. The design philosphy has always been 'no balance is good balance', and only in the most extreme game-breaking instances have balance issues been addressed (and usually not then).
Further, I have little faith that SOE has the ability to balance combat. Sure, they may try, but if the Jedi Revamp is any indication, abilities will be reshuffled in power but there will still be distinctly better classes and skills.
Balance has never been a priority with SWG. The design philosphy has always been 'no balance is good balance', and only in the most extreme game-breaking instances have balance issues been addressed (and usually not then).
Further, I have little faith that SOE has the ability to balance combat. Sure, they may try, but if the Jedi Revamp is any indication, abilities will be reshuffled in power but there will still be distinctly better classes and skills.
NL-Sneeuw
Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:48 am
#1052
Galiger wrote:
LuthianP wrote:
Galiger wrote:
Well I know this post will be lost in the ocean of complaints but I just want to express my enjoyment in the game that you have created. It is unlike any game I have played in the past and in my eye is a very sucessful game. Please just do the best you can do and that is all that anyone, that is reasonable people, can ask.
I have extremely enjoyed the crafting and combat in this game and believe you are doing a wonderful job. People will always be unhappy with what you do... you are dealing with thousands of people - all of which have different ideas, dreams and wishes. You will never make a game that makes everyone happy... so set your goals and run with it, definately don't loss sleep over it... you're no good to anyone sleepy.
Good luck to you Thunderheart, and the rest of the Devs.
I personally thank-you for the game and the work you have done.
How long have you been playing SWG?
Sorry for taking so long to respond... I've been playing since 4-5 days from release... so I've been around for long enough.
Of course there is no way the Dev's can make everybody happy... DUH!
The least they can do is listen to the players, and i mean realy LISTEN!, not that crap; yeah yeah good id, but we have a better one anyway.
I do like playing SWG alot, ive been playing since December, but i have to say it hasnt got any better in all this time. Sure things like the vehicles and all that small crap are "nice"...But the core of the game and the entire Roleplay/Social aspect is very much dead. The biggest example is Entertainment.
Ewoksean
Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:49 am
#1053
Thunderheart wrote:
Great Expectations
There are great expectations in the community for the upcoming Combat Balance and the Galactic Civil War revamp. These announced upcoming major features are pivotal to making the Galaxies experience more of a Star Wars experience. To deliver on these major features, we will need the full development team and re-assembling the team isn’t going to happen until after the upcoming Jump to Lightspeed expansion is shipped.
Delaying these critical features was not something we are doing for our convenience, but only to ensure they are done well. The team leadership has been discussing these changes, the future of SWG and the feedback from the community. Clearly the community wants us to do a better job at delivering the game service and this reinforced our decision to make sure we have adequate resources on each update to the game.
At the core of the discussions are our team goals. The team’s goals are to increase the quality of the service, make the game more fun and accessible and finally to make a much more intense Star Wars experience. In this, we agree with the community that our design and implementation process should continue to be improved and we want to assure our customers that it is our goal to exceed their expectations and make SWG the finest MMORPG ever.
Rather than continue to split the team’s forces and try to accomplish too many goals, we’re going to do a few things and do them right. Once the Jump To Lightspeed is complete, the team as a whole will be re-grouped. Then the combined team will accomplish the Combat Balance, the GCW and all the other improvements to the game.
What’s Ahead
To offset this very big announcement that will affect all of you, I will be immediately working with the correspondents and the community to develop a list of pre-combat balance fixes to get combat into a more enjoyable state. This will encompass many items planned for the Combat Balance, and will happen in a steady stream between now and JTL. The Combat Medic and Bounty Hunter changes that are coming in Publish 9.1 are the first of these efforts.
Between now and JTL is where I come in. Right out of the gate, I’ll be working with the community to develop plans for the Combat Balance and post them on the site; we’ll do a few features and I will continue to post updates. Later we will do the same for the GCW, the Squad Leader Revamp and all of the community issues on the table. In this, we can marry community expectations and development goals in a way that has never been done before with online games.
Our next major update, Publish 10 will bring us “The Jedi Trials”. Finishing the revamp of the Jedi profession is a big task. Being a Jedi is a big part of the Star Wars experience and it is a big game system. To become a Jedi, there needs to be a known path with mysterious quests, new NPC’s, new NPC behaviors, new places and all the little things that will make The Jedi Trials a publish to be excited about. To accomplish this, the team has expanded the scope of publish 10 so there is more design time and more testing time (hence the big changes).
Not long after The Jedi Trials, we’ll be focused on the JTL Beta and integrating Space with the ground game. Meshing the live service with JTL is a big challenge since it means it will be the first time anyone has ever integrated a complete RPG and action Space game before.
The Jump to Lightspeed is currently on track for a later October launch, which is a relatively short time away. Prior to that, we’ll be finishing up the Jedi Trials (Publish 10) and right after that, we will begin integrating the ground game with Space, start the JTL Beta Test and get on with making the game we all want to play. The good news is that the Jump to Lightspeed beta registration site is opening later this week
We appreciate your continued participation in the SWG community. Please continue to give us constructive feedback on our message boards as it helps us keep focused on your needs and priorities.
*sigh*
No offence to anyone on the staff or anything else, but the whole Jedi thing has to be the stupidest thing on the planet.
Look the point of this game was to live in an Star Wars World, Not "Live your star wars dream!" Thats what Kotor and those games are for. The jedi are ruining the game massively. Q-3PO stated that jedi would be rare, and mysterious, and that if you saw one you could condider your self lucky. Now I walk to Coronet star port and I see not 1, not 2, not 3. But maybe 4-6. And considering Coronet is the most highly populated city in SWG on all servers. (On average on Lowca, theres maybe 100 people there at normal hours 200 at peek.) Thats not very good. Considering the fact that the way to get jedi was totally dumb and was easy for those who dont have jobs or school and they can sit down all month and do nothing. My plan to fix jedi now would be in 4 steps.
1. Eliminate all jedi on the servers now (If they quit too bad. They can get it back they just have to try harder.)
2. Fix all professions and release the Combat Balance before jedi balance, to keep the population down.
3. Release an extremely and rediculously hard quest for them to do to make it to jedi, one that will take months, maybe weeks to do.
4.3 jedi per month could be made. Not 25 per week. 3 jedi PER MONTH. Not only that, but make it true to the star wars universe, remnants of jedi were hunted, those intuned with the force were killed personally by Vader, even if they didnt know of their powers, Vader still killed them, knowing the fear that they could infact rise to power. Think about it, count how many jedi were in power during episodes 4 and 5. Lets count..... Luke, Yoda....and Obi-wan, who was sliced by Vaders saber. 3
Jedi are destroying the game, in all seriousness, they roam around slicing other people like rag dolls, they mock you, heck they are even exploiting their new godly power which shouldnt have ever been released.
Combat is more important, Im playing another game untill JTL comes out. And no offence TH, hire some informants or something to monitor the fourms, hundreds of people are willing to help you for free, people have really great ideas that can easily be placed in game, but no one sees them because you guys are toying and tinkering around with jedi which shouldnt really even be in this game except for 3 people. And one lives on Dagobah, and another is dead.
Seriously send some emails out to some people and ask "Hey will you help with the SWG community by submitting ideas to an email, and possibly chatting with a whole bunch of the devs some time in the future about some ideas to make the game better?" Im sure tons of people would reply toyes, the community of SWG on the fourms are brilliant, but you have what 4 people searching through maybe 10 posts a second?
Personally, Id help you guys out, and my first thing would be this better time line to what you should do.
End of July-Jedi Deletion
End of August-Combat revamp and Hutt Casino
End of September-GCW revamp
Mid October-JTL release
End of November-Jedi reinsertion
Anything past November is beyond imaginaton.
Plus, thanks to one of my magazine I just got, Surge it was reported that you had 450,000 subscibers.
Do the math.
450,000 x 50= 22,500,000 game sales.
450,000 x 12.95 x 12 = 69,930,000 per year.
You can afford more staff, not only that, but I have a friend in the server industry, you roughly spend maybe 50k per year. You can afford alot with that amount of money.
Edit:
I also found this revolting in the latestComuter Gaming World Magazine (In previewing JTL):
The World (this is the first paragraph.):
As pretty much everyone over the age of 2 knows, Star Wars is one-third lightsabers, one-third weird muppets, and one third spaceships....
The Snare:
We hate to bring this up again, but the original Galaxies did "win" our 2003 Coaster of the year award.
Even the critics are appaled.
Message Edited by Ewoksean on 07-16-2004 09:06 AM