Development Cycle Archive
Thread: ID#2: Two Changes to Bazaars and Vendors
'Encourages monopolies'? I'm not seeing what's so very bad about this; if anything, what you're talking about is the PvP of being a crafter...
That said, I am very, very against this proposed item-limit for vendors. It's going to hit tailors very painfully indeed, given the huge variety of not only garments that we stock, but colours. Heck, it's going to hit all crafters, and it's going to do exactly what this entire post seems to propose: drive people away from player's vendors and directly back towards the bazaars, combining understocked vendors with a price-raise on the bazaar. It's a great way to get people back to the cities, that. Pity about the merchants. 
Breigh wrote:
XanEldarie wrote:
As for this post, I had a reply, but I was logged out during submission, and I lost what I had typed up. In a nutshell, Stop Being So Selfish. Think about OTHER people, not just how the changes effect YOUR skill. You don't hear me whining about all the batteries I sell on my vendor, or how quickly they are purchased. With a 6k Bazaar, I can start putting my battery crates on that, NOT my vendor.
Selfish? I'm stating my concerns for myself and others in my profession and trying to help you (and others who are saying it should be easy to deal with this proposed change) to understand it from our side. I am not showing a LACK of concern for other professions, I don't KNOW enough about other crafting professions to comment either way, I will leave that up to THEM to state their case.
As for the batteries thing, well you're quite right, you can do that.. just because it's an option you consider doesn't mean it's something for everyone. I put a LOT of work into my shops (and I don't just mean the vendors) I am a member of a roleplay city and I try quite hard to make my shops an experience of their own to visit and get quite a lot of comments on it. It is only a part of what I enjoy about tailoring. Another part I enjoy is making the items I sell.. why would I want to mass produce items to sell on the bazaar.. that just takes away from the experience I have in running my shop, do you see?
How is it selfish to point out that some crafters are being extremely adversely affected by this change while other crafters may or may not be? Are we tailors supposed to graciously stand by and let this change go through without comment because we are a minority of crafters? Is it fair that we, as a minority of crafters, are adversely affected by a rule that is facially neutral but has a disparate impact?
Consider this: you are an African American child in the early 50's going to a segregated school. You want to end desegregation, and you go to the Supreme Court. What if the Supreme Court, in Brown v. Board of Education,had said: "Stop being so selfish. Think of how other people would feel, and not just how the changes would affect you. It would be an administrative nightmare for an entire state to desegregate, think about that!"
When a discrete group is being adversely affected by a given rule, we should look at the rule critically instead of looking at the overall picture and disregarding the special interest. If we did not, there would be no wheelchair ramps (stop being so selfish! Think of the cost of accomodating you in this building plan), no research about diseases that only affect a very small portion of the population, etc. In the gaming world, I cannot endorse the idea that we should allow one profession to be severely hamstrung by a change, and that profession be forced to "take one for the team."
XanEldarie wrote:
Read what I just posted before this. You know, the whole avenues nonesense. That's the point.
Do you realize, every item tailors sell is made "by hand" not in a factory? That tailors already make dozens of custom orders every day outside their vendors? Your oh so obvious suggestions and self-proclaimed obvious truths are only possible if someone has no real job, storage limits on structuresare doubled or tripled,and they increase the length of the average day by about 5 hours.
Do us a favor and accept the fact that the process of creating and the demand for clothing is nothing like the process and demand for droids. Just like spices and food are different from weapons and armor. Just about every profession in the game, including pure merchants, have posted reasons why this cap is a detriment to the game as a whole, is it that hard to see?
Just an example of "other avenues"..
http://fun.to/torr/
you all know Torr, he's that great master DE in Corellia. Like I said, this is an EXAMPLE (some of you are going to say, "I can't write HTML!).
Disclaimer: I am in no way associated with Torr and/or his business. If you happen to buy something, I will in no way recieve credit for the sale or commission of any kind. Torr and http://fun.to/torr/ his and his alone. This is for the sole purpose of example.
Vendor change = Acceptable to me, but many are voicing strong dislike. It does sound like a database problem from what you're doing. Would this be due to the fact that people are storing thousands of items in the vendors stockroom?
First off.. limit the stock room to 3 days time. If the items are not claimed within 3 days, then just make the vendor auto delete them.
NJ_Ragman wrote:
Bazaar change = Excellent
Vendor change = Acceptable to me, but many are voicing strong dislike. It does sound like a database problem from what you're doing. Would this be due to the fact that people are storing thousands of items in the vendors stockroom?
First off.. limit the stock room to 3 days time. If the items are not claimed within 3 days, then just make the vendor auto delete them.
/applaud
I personally think the amount is WAY too low. There should be the same cap as on venders, which is something like 9999999 if memory serves.
Why?
#1 your already limited to the number of items you can sell in bazaar (25? something like that) so it should not impact it too terribly high.
#2 It will allow anyone the ability to sell high ticket items, without requiring the use of a personal vender.
#3 Currently, there are items that no one would put on the bazaar, simply because no one in right mind would sell them for only 3k (or 6k for that matter) ...some examples would be installation deeds, large house deeds, vehicle deeds.
Additionally I'd like to suggest, reguardless of decision of the price cap, of making any auction which HITS the decided upon cap (3k, 6k, 9999999cr) as 'bought' ...since it's an auction, and after that point, no one else can bid...one must assume the item is sold.
*ALSO - please change the 'confirm purchase' to a yes you much click to confirm, rather then accepting a 'enter' key ... I once bought a 100k BE kimogilla(yes from personal vender, not bazaar...but same interface issue I believe) due to heavy fingers and a RL distraction.
Reguarding the vender limit change...
I see this as only a developer change due to hoarding by players using venders as a personal bank....and not a gameplay issue due to people trying to sell everything under the sun.
Personally, I do tend to hoard items....if I don't know the worth, I stick it away until I have an idea. If it's something I know I'll need later...same...
I only recently have gotton a vender to sell some of my items, and since the option IS there to hold items in a vender, in a storage sense, I have been able to cut my 5 small houses (3 accounts) down to 3 small houses.
Overall, I think the limit to items on personal venders should be at least 250...no idea what the limit is now...but any less will hurt those who are crafting and using them for the intended use - selling to players.
OldGroo
aka
Jasp Finn on Sunrunner
Raising the bazaar cap just means less of an incentive to be a merchant.
While I personally don't have an issue with limiting the number of items on a vendor, Icould see how it could be a serious issues for tailors and armorsmiths.
My suggestion:
- Base level - 150 items on a vendor
- Inventory management I (part of the efficiency line) - 200 items
- Inventory management II 250 items
- Master Merchant 300 items
A raised price cap on the bazaar would be great...but the proposed150 item limitfor vendors would make vendors very annoying to run. Surely, restocking everyday doesn't sound fun to anyone?
XanEldarie wrote:
As for this post, I had a reply, but I was logged out during submission, and I lost what I had typed up. In a nutshell, Stop Being So Selfish. Think about OTHER people, not just how the changes effect YOUR skill. You don't hear me whining about all the batteries I sell on my vendor, or how quickly they are purchased. With a 6k Bazaar, I can start putting my battery crates on that, NOT my vendor.
Excuse me, but I that that her point was EXACTLY that. Many other crafting professions will be severely hosed in what they can stock for their customers by the 150 limit, while the limit may not adversely affect *YOU*, perhaps you'd like to consider the other crafting/merchant classes, such as Architect, Armorsmith, Bio-Engineer, Chef, Tailor and Weaponsmith.
You made a point in one of the sections that I snipped above, about how isn't what people want 'constant attention', do you seriously think that the people who are stocking 600 items on a vendor AREN'T paying constant attention to their stores? All I work on is my crafting, it's put some distance between me and several friends I have in this game, the only time I really leave my store is to check my storehouse, work on stocking my other vendor or to move my harvesters (which is what enables me to craft in the first place). It's the fact that I stock large numbers of items that let's me keep up with customer demand and be a full service shop, in your definition which of my activities .isn't. about constant attention to the needs of my customers?