Development Cycle Archive

Thread: IC 1-6: Combat Roles; Creature Handler

GreenStok
Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:41 am
#92

For most of a half year, I have been a MBE and a Creature Handler 2-4-0-4. I am related to the Creature Handler not only because I am one, I buy from them and sell to them.



What defines theCreature Handler role in combat? The many pets of a creature handler are tailor made for each situation they run into. Their role is to use these pets with enormous amounts of ham to take the hits.... To tank for the group.


What basic combat elements should they possess? The Creature Handler should have strong commanding skills that would allow their pets to do amazing defensive abilities including a strong ability to take aggro.


What offensive abilities? The Creature Handler should have the ability to order their pets to do kinetic attacks and more.


What defensive abilities? To take the hits as well as anyone in the game, but with their enormous ham, to take them longer.


What unique abilities? Trick attacks, unique attacks, attacks that will defeat the normal defenses that make it impossible to ignore. Perhaps even to share life with its master.


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat? Tanking


How could/should they interact with other professions? They should be first strike once the battle becomes melee range.


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants? The pets should have unique abilities to take aggro for all in the group.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War? tanking.


The Creature handler should have amazing abilities to control pets, to have them do things that would be thought beyond their abilities. Perhaps even sharing life with their pets making the opposition impossible to ignore the pet.


Creature handlers should still be able to tame babies found in nature and BE's should be able to beef all creatures above their origional abilities.







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GreenStok, Master Bio Engineer, proprieter of Green Acres
Shop on Lowca server, Naboo, Theed
/waypoint -5430 3417
Also on Dantooine -595 2891
billy128
Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:45 pm
#93

fix pet special attacks so we can control them as promised . knockdown never works for a pet .


Pets were nerfed months ago ( and a nerf was needed) but it went too far , changing it so max pet level was spread round the skill tree stopped everyone from having a graul in combat . Have the devs tried playing a MCH recently , pets are just too weak now . especially in PvP , people just laugh at pets in PVP now . I challenge the devs to play as a commando for a day and then as a TKA for a day and then as a CH for a day . Those other 2 profesions are 10 times better than CH . At least commando requires a lot of skill points , but TKA is well over powered . I think you can judge how good a profesion is ny how many people are learning it or dropping it . Lots are dropping CH now . Please give us something positive ( and not like special attacks were you promise them and then they just dont work) .



kitara Master tamer / Master bio-engineer on chimaera
my BE shop is at -1547 , -4308 (1 min ride from bestine)
Akelan
Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:34 am
#94

I agree with the general idea of the majority of posts concerning pet roles, but I see a problem with defining them in terms of the specific creature, for example Rancor Trainer.

As both a Master Bio-Engineer and a Master Creature Handler, this is a limitation, rather than a benefit. A good BE can make a Gnort with the stats, damage and overall health of a Rancor, and make a Rancor with the stats of the average gnort. The distinction needs to be something more like an "Attack Pet Specialization", which allows the CH to train the pet for an exclusive line of attacks or abilities, which are designed to enhance the pets abilities in a specific role.

This would mean a change in the pet-training process, in which a pet is "defined" as an Attack pet, and the commands trainable at each level are also "qualified" by the pet's specialization. Other pets might be "specialized" as Defensive, with commands enabling them to be less affected by intimidation, stun, etc, and more able to resist damage. Let a Defensive pet, given the appropriate command by it's trainer, act to shrug off a portion of the damage from any attack, much the way armor does presently.

These specializations should be a combination of the pet's definition and training, and the CH's level/ability. A pet would have to be defined as an Attack pet to respond to the "embolden" command, for example, and as a Defensive or Tank pet to respond to a similar commmand by the CH to enter a Defensive Stance.

An additional role or specialization for a pet might be "Pack Animal", giving the pet a 100 unit or so carrying capacity, similar to a droid's item storage compartment but larger, or expandable with a player made "Saddlebag" similar to a backpack, and usable by the CH. "Pack Animals" would not be combat pets, but might serve as mounts.

I like the idea and think there is significant room to expand the CH role and the enjoyment of the profession with these specializations. From the BE side, I see such creature's capabilties and effectiveness governed by their Ferocity, Dependability, Cleverness and other stats which are less apparent in their effect now. High Dependability would be a must for a Tank, High Ferocity and Cleverness for an Attack pet, and high Endurance for a good Pack Animal.

This might also help free the professions from the absolutism of the Creature Level as such a determining factor, and add depth to both the4 BE and CH roles, while not fundamentally unbalancing the power or interdependance of the professions. Multiple specializations might also mean more use of multiple pets, rather than the bigger / meaner is better single focus we have currently.

Ake'lan Farseeker - Master Creature Handler, Naritus
LLan Farseeker - Master Bio Engineer, Chilastra
ZabrakEnforcer
Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:13 am
#95






TrandoshanDroidTech wrote:

that was a little wierd, the whole board locked up for some reason......


I assume others can reply about other ppls ideas here





Aakhperkare wrote:






+40 Pet Terrain Negotiation I agree, some pets need better terrain negotiation


/trick 4 command healing all mind and wound damage by 100% curing any disease or poison as well I think two trick commands are enough


/breed command Allowing your Rancor to breed with another Rancorproducing a baby of that particular species for the Creature Handler to tame an intriguing concept! I've always thought of having a ranch or something.



Providing breeding services for Bio Engineers. Providing non-combat uses to non-Ch's, such as rescue pets. (a pet that drags incapped PC's or delivers medicine). Entertainer pets that are trained to "sing" along or do tricks with their entertainer master, giving them bonuses to healing. So many ideas are already on the CH forum. I agree on this one


How about Giving the larger tameables (Tortons, Maklocs, Fambaas) an ability to carry shield generators to assist in battlefield fights. Or the ability for the same large tameables to do area kinetic damage as they run through a group of enemies in battlefield encounters. This could be a command reserved only for the large tameables such as Tortons, Kimogila's, Fambaas and such. A /stampede command used only for battlefield encounters.


Currently in a PvP situation, pets are just not viable. They die much to quickly and can be ignored for several reasons.


1. Pet damage output only consists of kinetic.


2. They have no armor piercing.


3. They do not hit hard enough.


4. They do not hit fast enough.


5. They usually stop attacking when the CH is killed, they do not protect to the death as they should for theirmasters.


I agree on all of this



and something I forgot to say PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE FIX PET PATHING!




i really love the pet specializations, that would be awesome. but knowing thunderheart and the devs they would botch it into another useless aspect of ch.

TheDarkTrumpet
Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:25 am
#96

commented inline





What defines theCreature Handler role in combat?


***CH should be able to supplement for a lack of brawlers in a group, or to help protect brawlers by the user of their pets. Pets shoud have fairly good damage, and be good tanks. We should be somewhat similar to that of brawlers in the sense that we are there trying to protect ranged players.


What basic combat elements should they possess?


***Well, only the ability to control the pets, and to have the pets respond to the master being killed (not just to stop combat until attacked)


What offensive abilities?
***To maybe fix the specials dealing with pets. So far specials are hard as heck to get the pet to do. along with this, maybe we can get another bar or something to see the pet's queue of attacks, so we can stack the specials like we do when fighting. Maybe another tab?


What defensive abilities?
***Since we rely on our pets to defend us, we shouldn't have that many defenses.


What unique abilities?


***The specials went a long long way, maybe a few more types of specials?


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


***To help protect ranged, and some of the lower level melee combat players.


How could/should they interact with other professions?


***The breed idea posted earlier is awesome. This would help out bio-engineers. Maybe along with that, CH can have the ability to 'harvest' from their pet from time to time to get extra stuff. Maybe add a fur type of thing in the game, so it's like shaving a pet. Also the ability to customize the pet outside Bio-engineer would be nice in this area. Armor would be nice, maybe allow image designers to work with the pets. Also, special pets could be used for healing (dance), and stuff like that. The ideas for this is endless.


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


***With little defense, and little offense - we should need othe combat characters...and really do already.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


***Creatures, so far, are already used a lot in the crafting and creation of many items. I think revolving around this idea would be a better idea. Creating tanks, and things that can hold shield gens would also be very interesting for combat.



***ANOTHER THING****


There was a post about an idea to add a sort of ability for the CH to view through the 'eyes' of the pet. This would be nice if there was a sort of meditation, or something else where the CH could do just that...view through the eyes of the pet, maybe unable to attack or defend the main character....but would be great for scouting.


along with this idea, maybe with the space expansion should be the ability for birds that actually *fly*. What do i mean? I mean like a bird that can fly like ones in real life. The 'view through them' option would be sweet if there was a way to look through maybe a small bird, and fly way overhead and view the ground from a high distance. This may not be very SW-ish, but is extremely fun in other MUDS/MMORPGS.










Darkfas - Kauri Server - 0/4/4/0 Ranger, 3/0/2/4 BH, 0/4/0/0 CH
TDT - Kauri Server - Master Armorsmith, Master Doc
Fesrir Lightstar - Pikeman / Smuggler
Templar1865
Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:31 am
#97

Unique changes/roles in combat:


As skills advance, CHs should provide increased terrain negotiation to their mounts. This would give mounts a tactical advantage over vehicles on extremely rough terrain (ravines of Dathomir, for example).


Secondly, a creature handler's unique role in combat should be cavalry. CHs should gain the ability to fight more effectively while mounted. I see this working as a HAM cost multiplier for special move costs (since giving it to us for free would unbalance combat severely). The HAM cost multiplier might start out at x3 or x4 (or higher to prevent CH dabbling again), then slowly mitigate downward to x2 or x1.5 at MCH. No special attacks could be used during a gallop. So if a special move normally costs me 30 Action, a beginning CH could execute that special attack while mounted for 90 or 120 Action points. I would severely restrict or prohibit using melee special attacks while mounted (perhaps only allow Pikeman moves aka energy-jousting).
Termis
Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:27 am
#98

Remembered something else I wanted to comment on.

The problem - mounts aren't as useful as they should be
Mounts don't really have much purpose anymore. Maybe it's just lag, but I seem to run as fast as most mounts do. When riding one I havn't seen any noticable increase in speed, I've also ran side by side of people on dewbacks, carrions, & such and there doesn't seem much of a dif in speed if any at all. Gallop works nice but only seems to be of better use if running from cats, otherwise burst run works just the same.
There is also no reason to ride a slow mount when you can ride a swoop and get to your destination a whole lot faster. Only advantage really (besides having to repair vehicles, which is broken right now anyhow) is that you don't have to call out your pet when you get to where you want to fight since you're already on it, but that is also going to be lost in the near future when you won't need camps to call out things.

proposed fix
make mounts a little faster. Close to speed of a landspeeder maybe. This would have to be fixed in a way though, that would prevent kiting. Maybe changing gallop from being a burst run ability to a constant default full speed gallop. While galloping you nor your pet can attack. If you attack something your pet slows down to the current run speed and you can attack as normal. If you want to get away and not fight you hit gallop, you stop fighting and after a 20 sec pause or something you will resume galloping but unable to attack. This would prevent kiting with ranged weapons, it would work just the same as if you had your swoop nearby so nothing really being too useful compared to how it is now.

nother idea...
Mounts could also be able to attack while mounted, making this a master skill would be very class defining. Think of it, a group going out to hunt something, the masterCH would be riding his dewback while in combat, that seems very creaturehandlerish to me. Since they'd be running at the current run speed it wouldn't be overpowered or anything by allowing anyone to kite. This would be a very unique class defining skill. Instead of just sitting back and sending in the pet, a master CH could have the option of riding his mount while his pet is in close combat.
In addition to mounted attacking a good idea could be that while mounted, damage is split between you and your pet. Something hits you for 1000 damage and 500 goes to you and 500 goes to your pet. If you die, well you die, if your pet dies, you dismount. Just some ideas...
Rawanuk
Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:12 pm
#99

One issue I keep noticing is the sheer difficulty of leveling up. I've been working on CH for a few months now, and am only 1211. Do you realize how many people I've seen going for CH and then giving up? I've literally told people to avoid CH too, because of its difficulty. It is the single hardest profession to level. Period.



"It is missing the point to think that the martial art is solely in cutting a man down; it is in killing evil. It is in the strategem of killing the evil of one man and giving life to ten thousand" -Yagyu Munenori

[-Rawanuk Zoranari, Imperial Trandoshani of Tempest-]
[=Master Creature Handler=] >
[-Member of TSA, THE TWIN SUN ALLIANCE-]

[-QUIT AND LEFT FOR WoW. CENARIUS SERVER, LOOK ME UP, SAME USERNAME-]
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