Development Cycle Archive

Thread: In Concept 1-1: Combat Roles; Bounty Hunter

Chock
Thu Jan 22, 2004 9:45 am
#92


What defines the Bounty Hunter role in combat?


BH shouldn't really be interested, or even particularly useful in combat, just possesed of a single-mindedness to take down their mark and make money. They aren't, or shouldn't be, interested in duelling for fun or prowess. To this end, how about removing their ability to duel? This would stop it becoming of interest to people not fully interested in the role. Sustained combat ability too, of the kind that is useful in faction raids, should be not so good for BH, they are more about being a sneaky b*st*rd who shoots people in the back without warning, that's why they should be feared, precisely because they don't want a stand up fair fight.



What basic combat elements should they possess?


A BH combat ability should be the equivalent of walking up to someone and stabbing them in the back without warning, to achieve this in the game, they should be given some sort of stealth ability, perhaps even being able to drop off the scanner for a short period to allow them to get in a favourable position undetected. Hired killers rarely walk up to their targets and say: 'Hi, I'm your assassin, would you care to attempt to defend yourself?'. So I would favour a real one shot killer blow, which if it fails, means the BH has to cut and run. Success or failure depending on how skillful the approach to the mark is. I think it would be really good if you could bring a BH mark in alive, to hand them in to a Spynet Operative. Perhaps disabling the player-controlled Jedi's slot for a week or two before they manage to 'escape' captivity, re-activating the slot, maybe they could get out of jail instantly if they switched to the opposite side, i.e. dark to light or light to dark! I could imagine the interesting conversations as you trek across hostile territory with a Jedi on forced follow, with them trying to persuade the BH to take money in exchange for their release, perhaps this could trigger a BH mission against the BH that does so. Then they'd really have to make it worth your while!



What offensive abilities?


Frankly, I would keep them the same more or less, just make the first shot (or a new one shot ability) really devastating.



What defensive abilities?


They could do with improving slightly, but please don't make us invincible, the risk of injury and death going up against marks is part of the fun of the game.



What unique abilities?


Some sort of stealth ability would be nice, we are supposed to be sneaky scum after all!



Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


Perhaps their fearsome reputation could add a morale boost to others of non-combat classes in the group, maybe giving players grouped with them a slight stat boost?



How could/should they interact with other professions?


Players could offer contracts to BH, but I think this should perhaps be limited to people that have 'killed' them before, thus giving them a reason for revenge. Not sure whether the in game stats track this kind of info though, so how feasible this is unknown to me. Allowing players to put a contract out on anyone would just get silly I feel. Perhaps BH should be able to service weapons for players to a limited degree, maybe giving the weapon ten percent of its condition back. It seems reasonable to assume that a BH would be pretty au fait with weaponry, and this would be a handy emergency interim fix that a BH could offer players with a busted weapon, say out in the field.



What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


The BH should be able to pay people other players to scout for them, or act as informants, this would be a great way to get 'newbies' involved in more lucrative missions at an early stage, since it would only require them to watch out at a location, similar to the recon missions on the terminals, but at some risk to themselves, perhaps giving them a TEF when actively spying. The info from various locations could mount up as info XP, perhaps negating the need for the BH to consult a Spynet guy a few times, or giving a really accurate position waypoint on a mark etc.



What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


The BH class already has a unique role - yet to be fully realised - as the enemy of the Jedi. BH on the Reb side can hunt dark Jedi too, so it's a balancing force that the BH's wield. They are kind of like a difficult to control maverick police force, so I think that in NPC BH missions, the allegiance of the mark should be taken into account in the same way that Reb and Imp victories were during the Cries of Alderaan back story. This would give non Jedi/BH players a stake in how the BH/Jedi battles go, and perhaps encourage these players to help out their particular side more.


Kisedd
Thu Jan 22, 2004 9:56 am
#93

To me a Bounty Hunter is not some predefined combat class, with a scatter pistol or a lightning cannon. Bounty Hunters come from all walks of life, that is what makes them interesting. You have no idea what skill set a Bounty Hunter might have, what might make them unique. They could be a TKA or a Commando or a Pistoleer.


Bounty Hunters get paid to collect bounties, often this mean killing your mark. They may work for some criminal organization like Black Sun or Jabba the Hutt. They might work for more legitimate authorities like Cor Sec. That might work for the Empire.


I'm really surprised at the way BH is approached in SWG. Other than Jedi's and somepoorly designedmissions from the BH terminal (like the rest of the missions in game) BH is just some other combat template.


What defines a BH is how they hunt their bounties. Their tricks of the trade. Yes, some of these guys are bad dudes with a reputation, but I'm sure you can find people with reputations on any server in the game who aren't even BH. Since the indoor element of cityscapes is really missing from the game, most BH will have to hunt bounties in the wilderness. Maybe they should have less prereqs or more open prereqs so they can pursue more their own style of combat.


-Ares-
Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:11 am
#94






Feynan wrote:
Bounty Hunters should NOT be the most powerful profession in the game. Their fun factor comes from taking Bounty's, and their ability to dispose of their target quickly and easily is that they are efficient with just about every weapon in the game, and are therefore able to target their enemies weakness.






Yay, you understand us now!!
Syrillius
Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:48 am
#95

I think most has already been said...


Best 1v1 profession (Everything else would be not right)
Bad at many vs many

How to do this: Let the BH mostly how he is now (Medicore fighter, not much else) and add a specialability like "concentrate on target": This should give him +50%the damage versus one target and should half the miss-rate of the chosen weapon (is ti was 50% to hit, he should have 75% now). Also give him a 50% chance to resist a statusattack of the targer. On the other hand, every defense(ranged,dogde and so on) versus attacks from other enemys should drop to 0 while this abillity is in use. This should be a status, that can be seen by everyone, so everyone will try to get the easy kill, which will make it unwise to use in mass fights.

Content:
More different bounty-missions

Just make some 200k+ missions, where an npc awaits the BH, that is worth the fight (actually will kill a solo BH)



IGN: Ahshyrian
crimsonkhan
Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:38 pm
#96



I would recommend the following changes to the Bounty Hunter profession;



Sometimes Bounty Hunter's, in order to recieve payment for a bounty, must be able to return the quarry alive and unharmed. With this in mind, Bounty Hunters must have the tool's necessary to ensure this can be accomplished.


In order to reflect this in SWG terms, I would recommend Bounty Hunters be given non-lethal means of combat. This idea transcends into a "role" for Bounty Hunters in SWG, that of "crowd control".


1. I would propose that most, if not all Bounty Hunter combat special attacks are non-lethal in nature. Very high use of stun, knockdown, blind, etc. and any other means of debilitating an opponent. While any non-special attack remains the same (normal damage).


"He is no good to me dead."- Boba Fett


2. I would recommend removing "Light Lightning Cannon" from the Bounty Hunter profession and replace it with something along the lines of "Bounty Hunter Traps". In this line of specialization introduce traps/grenades that use non-lethal damage, stun, blind, etc. and the ability to manufacture them.


The LLC goes against the idea of the Bounty Hunter profession because the role of a Bounty Hunter shouldn't be to incenerate thier "mark". Commando's are SWG heavy weapons experts, give them the LLCandleave incineration to the experts! This would also further define the rolefor Commando's in that they would be the single profession with access to heavy weapon's.

3. "Player Bounties" has always been a desire for anyone who want to be a Bounty hunter. Player Bounties are difficult to institute in a concensual PvP envirionment, but not impossible.


Mysuggestion for "Player Bounties" isthat it is based of "faction". If a player has accumulated "X" number of faction points against another faction, then the opposing faction will place a "bounty" on that player. For example, Jabba vs. Lady Valarian, Empire vs. Rebellion, etc. These mission can be acquired at Bounty Hunter Mission terminals.


4. The introduction of profession specific armor.





Talos Darksun, Novice Bounty Hunter

JeremyClore
Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:49 pm
#97






Thunderheart wrote:


What defines theBounty Hunterrole in combat?


Should be a feared offenssive powerhouse. Great for hit and run attacks when they catch target by surprise.


What basic combat elements should they possess?


Multiple KD/Posture attacks that have a high percentage chance of sticking. Ability to use traps (Posture?) on PC's and NPC's.


Accuracy, Accuracy, Accuracy and more Accuracy. I feel like I can't hit the broad side of a barn with everyone stacking defenses these days.


What offensive abilities?


See above


What defensive abilities?


Defenses against state effects and KD


What unique abilities?


Player Bounties (Outside of just the Jedi ones) and ability to use traps on PC's and NPC's


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


Above combat fixes should make BH a stronger member of any group.


How could/should they interact with other professions?


We kill stuff and get paid. We buy stuff that makes us better at killing stuff. We get more mone. Rinse and repeat.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


Combat skills for sale


Request For Comments:


The community is invited to make commentsthrough April. At that time, the thread will be closed to further comments. Feel free to comment on any or all of the above items. Please stay on topic.










=================================================================================
Itripi Cartman
KOTOR PA

"Teh food" - Hunt-X
sunvalleyguy
Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:53 pm
#98

y must BH know master scout? Comandos only know marx and unarm, but comados serve BH. WHy? In my opinion BH should master marx, and unarm as well, but have enough skill points to master pistol or carbine, etc. Not scout !



Cuervo | Dark Jedi | Batista | GANKsta' | SeVeN
crimsonkhan
Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:07 pm
#99


It would seem to me that the Bounty Hunter community is trying to make the Bounty Hunter profession into what the Commando's role should be. We as the Bounty Hunter community should strive to create more than just "the class that does the most damage".


TheCommando is SWG elite combatant with heavy weapons and high damaging special attacks. Combine all the Commando Special weapons (Acid Rifle/Flame Thrower/Light Lightning Cannon) into a single specialization "Heavy Weapons". Replace Acid Rifle and Heavy Weapons with Commando Carbine and Commando Pistol specialization. Commando's should have the following four specializations;


Commando Carbine Specialization I, II, III, IV


Commando Pistol Specialization I, II, III, IV


Commando Heavy Weapons Specialization I, II, III, IV


Commando Thrown Weapons Specialization I, II, III, IV


Have Commando Profession's special attacks be the most damaging special attacksin SWG.


The Bounty Hunter should be SWG best crowd controlwith best stuns, blinds, knockdowns etc. and ALL Bounty HunterSPECIAL attacks should reflect this. Remove Light Lightning Cannonand replace with "Bounty HunterThrown Weapons". Bounty Hunter Thrown Weapons should have AoE stun, blind, knockdown etc. Theeffectsshould effect humanoids only. Bounty Hunters should have the four following specializations;


Investigation I, II, III, IV


Bounty Hunter Pistol I, II, III, IV


Bounty Hunter Carbine I, II, III, IV


Bounty Hunter Thrown Weapons I, II, III, IV


The Bounty Hunter professionshould reflect the nature of "capturing" their quarry.




Talos Darksun, Novice Bounty Hunter








KeithJB
Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:14 pm
#100

What unique abilities?

though I have already posted, I would like to add something thathits the core of the StarWars themeand should not introduce many technical road blocksbecause the hooks for the code are already in place.I speak ofthe addition of the player Bounty. I know there is a lot of support for this, so I would limit its use to avoid all players moving to BH. I would implement this using the Smuggler profession by adding Smuggler players to the mission list after they fail or even complete a smuggle. The Smuggler would get their missions from NPCs (put these NPCs in the Cantinas etc.) I would give the Smugglers a 'reputation' line, which would be similar to our Investigation line, in that as they improve their reputation they would get increasingly difficult missions (which pay along the lines of our Investigation missions--or more). The only other players I would allow on the BH missions terminals is the FS players already there. I would love to see a never ending struggle between the Smuggler and the Bounty Hunter and from reading the boards this would be an instant hit within SWG.


BTW- I play a BH, not a Smuggler
krac1
Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:51 pm
#101

I've seen quite a few people post "Bounty hunter should be the best at 1on1 and to counter this, his weakness is that he cannot handle groups". This sounds ok, perhaps at first, but it just can't work. That's basically the same as every other professions balance + then some! If anyone in any profession ever types "We should own against groups" they're on crack. You may be thinking of commandos here, but you can't tell me you seriously think one commando should be able to handle a group of people. Sure, he should have area effects and explosions, which makes him very effective in group engagments, but he's still going to lose without some other factor.


Also, in group fights, they are either, multiple 1on1's (meaning bh's would own, despite the group environment) or many-on-1, meaning ANYONE should lose.


A more likely suggestion, as I have seen it said here, is that BHs should have a strong advantage early in the fight, either via a quite burst of high damage, and/or the application of multiple short-term state effects, giving the BH a huge advantage early in the fight (but he better have them dead by the time the states wear off...)


Anyway, I'll post my own responses to TH soon enough, but thought I should throw this out to my fellow BHs, as I felt the wrong suggests were gathering alot of momentum.


BetaOrionis
Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:01 pm
#102

What is a Bounty Hunter: Find, Track, take down 1 on 1.


MBH should be able to track a player character
As of Jan,20, 2004 MBH in PvP is about 50-50 which seems fair, you win some you loose some...but BH needs a first strike ability....stealth to approach (mask scent) and a high accuracy first strike (from scout trap abilities)


The ability to attack a player with a massive crippling first shot or bag of tricks

Think carefully, what good are any of the scout skills for a BH? The explore tree is valuable for the terrain negotion but other than that...traps? harvesting? camping? a total waste. Traps should be able to be used on players


You spend all of your skill points and don't get half the defense mods of a fencer


MBH should get intimidate and intimidate immunity/mods
Mask scent should keep a BH off of the enemy's radar


Massive first strike that has a long delay between firing...the special traps (dizzy, stun, KD) should be a first strike weapon but only good in 1v1...


As it stands, even a buffed MBH gets OWNED by a MCM with mind poison or the PvP Overused Combo (Pistoleer/Fencer) It's actually quite sad. And in spite of it all...My 1 BH character is really all i've played since July.


Jaska
Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:22 pm
#103

What defines theBounty Hunterrole in combat?


The Bounty Hunter should be a solo combat artist. He should be the best player at locating, stalking, and finally taking down opponents in a sneaky way while making a hasty retreat.


What basic combat elements should they possess?


The Bounty Hunter should have more of a versatility feel to their combat style. Each weapon should be used against specific targets. The light lightning cannon is a distinct weapon, but there isn't as much of a change in carbines and pistols. At Master Bouny Hunter, they should be granted some sort of ability or bonus VS Jedi where a Bounty Hunter would be a much more difficult target for a Jedi than any other normal combat profession. This doesn't necessarily mean Bounty Hunters should be able to kill Jedi, but a medium-sized group of them should.


What offensive abilities?


Firstly, player bounties should be instituted. Once that's done, bounty hunters can take on their true aspect - not as combat tanks but as efficient one player killers. They should be able to hide themselves from radar. This will give them first strike advantage and the jump they need to win a fight. It should be a timed ability and they could still be targeted, so they'd have to use it right.


Also, once the bounty hunter has made his kill, he should gain a TEF with anyone around the victim. This will force the Bounty Hunter to make a quick leave. Anyone who wouldn't normally want to attack the Bounty Hunter won't attack him (by his own choice),but it also leaves more chancefor sneaky behavior for the Bounty Hunter to worry about. It would also encourage the Bounty Hunter to stalk his prey while he's alone, since a Bounty Hunter wouldn't normally attack someone in the middle of a town.


More effective status-change shots should be implemented, and there should be added first-strike bonuses.


What defensive abilities?


A Bounty Hunter's defense should either be ruled by their status changes or their defenses to them. Bounty Hunters should also havedecreased encumbrances on armor, as they were the profession that wore it in the movies.


What unique abilities?


Player bounties.


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


Group combat should not be the Bounty Hunter's main focus. He should mostly remain a solitary being, but his versatility should allow for any situation. Status-change shots are good for any group - possibly AoE dizzy.


How could/should they interact with other professions?


Player bounties would be their main interaction. Bounty Hunters would also not like a duel, becuase any first strike advantage is lost.


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


Bounty Hunters should have little to no dependencies on other players (although everyone likes a buff). Their focus is solitary.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


They should have no role in the Galactic Civil War. Bounty Hunters broke Republic rules and they break Imperial rules. They don't need a Rebel Alliance to sustain their way of life, but they're not going to be a law-abiding Imperial, either.



Resident Mr. Magoo
HumanRebJediMaster
Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:37 pm
#104

I dont really wanna go through the whole questionare because the stuff i'll say is what everyone else is saying pretty much. I agree with mostly what every one is saying except maybe a few things...but the majority i agree with. But there is one thing that i just want to emphasize on because i didnt see a whole lot of it being mentioned.


Bounty Hunters should be feared by Jedi. I mean the only person that should be able to take on or stand a chance against a jedi is the Bounty Hunter. I am sure that once Jedi start to get their little bugs fixed and the things they want handed to them...i am sure they will dominate the BH class with their force powers and sabers etc etc....BH need something to use against a Jedi weather it be some kind of special armor (ah hem....mandalorian?) that gives them an advantage over the jedi or something but BH need something to hold them strong against Jedi.


Thats just my 2 cents =)



- I Came back to the game BECAUSE of the NGE!
Page 8 of 26