Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC4: Path of the Jedi
Kirkon2
Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:07 am
#950
By the way, I'd like to just add some feedback on various issues:
1: anything the Team can do to elminate mindless grinding, camping and looting would really be a plus.
2: some aspects of the above *can* be tolerated, I think, if the process is fun, not static and has a reasonable chance of success.
3: time in game shouldn't be a factor, as those who've stuck-it-out have advanced geometrically above those of us new or, as in my case, returning. It means you have greater ability to complete these quests than we do. Also, having a FS character is nearly an unbreakable hook. Had there been a system like this from the beginning (live launch which I was here for)---or, rather, NOT the system they went with at that time---then I would not have cancelled my account.
4: fun! Whatever series/types of quests you eventually choose, please use fun-factor as the final arbiter. Yes, I know. That's really subjective but I have confidence in the Team's abilities----evidenced by your open-minded approach to this issue.
thanks
Kirk2
ZackStarwind
Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:19 am
#951
Without reading ALL 42 pages of Jedi Revamp, I will bring up / reemphasize some things about Jedi:
1. A Jedi Intiate should FIND a Jedi Master to become their Padawan. We all know that Vader / Palpatine / Yoda / Ben / and Luke were not the last of the Jedi. This has been brought out in many books about the period. So in keeping with that light, how about when a Jedi Initiate opens their FCS, a Jedi Master NPC is spawned, EXCLUSIVELY for that Jedi. It is up to the Initiate to find the Master through a series of quests. Place the Master in some spawned dungeon that ONLY the Initiate can find (instanced for Player ONLY so that another player doesn't kill their Master). That way it would "simulate" the Master in hiding.
2. Once the Initiate has performed as series of "skill-proving" tasks, the Master will take that Jedi as his / her Padawan Learner. Then they will have to do ALOT of missions / Quests / Tasks for the Master in order to become ready for step 3.
3. The Test. Once the Master "feels" the Padwan is ready for "The Test", the Jedi Master will issue the Padawan "The Test". (To be determined by LucasArts developers in accordance with canon material)
That pretty much sums up HOW it shoud be to BECOME a Jedi Knight.
For the Sith they would seek out a KNOWN Sith Master, such as Palpatine or Vader, or Joruus C'Baoth, etc. But pretty much the Sith path would be the same way to become a FULL Sith Apprentice as above.
Once a Jedi / Sith has reached Knight / Apprentice level, they should have the "choices" of powers to use either for Good or Evil. Just like in the Dark Forces / Jedi Knight series of games. If a Knight does an Evil act or uses a Dark Side power...they could become corrupted by the Dark Side of the Force. Conversely if a Sith did a kindly act or saved someone, etc...they would gain Ligh side points. However, that is unlikely to happen, but it should be available TO happen. ie...Darth Vader in EpVI:RotJ.
Just my 2credits worth, and i hope it is seriously considered, after all this is the Star Wars universe and should follow AS CLOSELY the canon material of it. AND it's been proven possible in coding as seen in the aformentioned games.
Regards,
jedifreak1
Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:44 am
#952
i agree with ya zack...but id like to add two things..first...why is pixie..and muon gold illegal if you get scanned...yet in the middle of theed...you hear people shouting "holocron for sale pst"...um....duh? like the emporer would just ingore people selling stuff that makes more jedi lol.
Jedi also need a safe haven....someplace they can go to be safe from the bounty hunters with thier master is a good place...as thier master would be well hidden in order to teach thier students.
Yec
Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:54 am
#953
One issue I'd like you to consider when redesigning the Jedi system is that currently,the species are extremely unbalanced when it comes to creating a Jedi. Right now there is a single species that is the "JediSpecies", and that is Zabrak. None other compare. The reasoning:
Jedi don't have any use for the seondaries Strength, Quickness and Focus. No skill they will ever be able to use require any investment in these stats at all. Therefore, any species with natural bonuses wastes that bonus on a stat totally useless to the Jedi.
Similarly, since Jedi can only be Jedi, no natural species bonuses like Cover or Unarmed Accuracy, etc, are worth anything to a Jedi. They never use them, as they never use the weapons or skills associated with the bonuses.
Zabraks have (1) no innate bonuses to the stats listed above that are useless to Jedi, (2) they have innate bonuses that are generic and useful to jedi such as defense against some states, and (3) they have the innate ability Equilibrium, which is essentially a saving throw in combat that no other races have.
I WANT to create a Jedi that is unique, but it's quite hard to do that when I take such a handicap for simply another body design.
messiah38128
Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:40 pm
#954
Here is my first and great idea about how a jedi should train. It will also serveto develop player interdependencies which I think at this point aren't relied on enough. First off there should be NPCs in random dangerous places that give the missions. Once they give the mission they should disappear. That NPC should give players specific directions on his mission to involve others. Even to the point where it tells someone to ask for the help of certain players. I mean by this, the NPC will instruct the player to seek out a player he doesn't know for assistance, whether it be to "craft this" or anything. Also Bounty Hunters should use special droids that are made specifically for finding these NPCs since they have to go everywhere anyways. Make the players have to enlist the help of a Bounty Hunter to find the NPC initially. This could go on and on and even with a time limit. An example would be:First the player encounters the Jedi NPC, then that NPC will direct the player to seek out a player named "whatever". Then the quester would find the player by what means he has available and get the item. He will then take it to the next NPC. He would of course have to get the Bounty Hunter to locate the NPC. Missions can go on like this and increase in difficulty.
Thx.
Pretzel-eclipse
Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:52 pm
#955
wow this jedi thing is a pain in the ass huh? since i'm getting screwed cuz i can't find my silent profession ...i'll have to say the quest system will have to be player specific. taking into consideration that entertainers and crafter will not be able to do combat based quests. i love the combat and everythign being tkm/riflmen but i don't want any stupid quests either to compensate for the crafters and weaklings. another thing is traveling, lately i haven't been able to travel real fast without lag ...so if there is a mission on rori that makes me go to say dantooine and lets say thats only 1 part of the mission ..thats gonna be way to frustrating trying to power thru the lag and delay of 10 min shuttles. but i know u guys don't want everyone to become a jedi .....but then again this will probly just end up like the holocron method where only people with no lives who are on here all the time.
Pretzel - eclipse server
P.S. AND FOR GOD SAKE NERF THE BORGLE BAT CAVE LOOTS !!!!!!
GunWeiKee
Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:36 pm
#956
Great Write-up Kenbow2 
I disagree with the 30 day time thing and the Class A XP should stay at the current mysterious 5 and fold Class D into Class A XP.
That being my two-cents I love these ideas, it balances the quest for Jedi quite well and has the player actually helping other players and getting to know the galaxi a bit. I really really hope the devs implement something extremely close to this.
SWGsmglr
Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:42 pm
#957
I think there should be dark jedi and light trainers. In order to even take missions from them you would have to satisfy certain fp requirements. For the imperial, dark jedi trainers. To take missions from them you need to have a substantial NEGATIVE faction standing for the rebellion...Showing that you are dedicated to their cause and have no problem killing. Rebels can take missions from light jedi trainers which require you to have a substantially POSITIVE standing for the rebellion but if you have to much negative imperial FP you might be considerd to hostile and angry....And of course will not be chosen 
This will make it DIFFICULT to choose the path of the light and EASY to do the path of the dark .... The trainers will spawn at random locations. When you take a mission your trainer will tell you "if all goes well we shall cross paths again" or something to that affect and when you complete the mission he will DISSAPEAR and in order to recieve your FS award for that mission you would have to run across him again in your travels. As you progress however finding your trainer should be less difficult.
Amus-The-Amish-Midget
Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:20 pm
#958
OK first of all no one is prolly gonna read this after 20 other pages of posts but i think you after doing some unknown events like getting lightside or darkside points then after you aquire so many of these (should be rather difficult) it tells you where an npc is to give you the main quest to unlock you FSS (even better if your current character got like 100 extra skill points to become a jedi) but after you complete this npc's set of missions he tells you to go to another place in the wilderness abd then teh one you just completed dissapears as so people cant say where their current jedi quest person is to other people so the market doesnt get flooded with jedi. I think this would be a great idea and would work seemlessly (hopefully someone is patient enought to read this) and we need more skill points please
Dagith White-Horn Gorath server BH
Amus-The-Amish-Midget
Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:21 pm
#959
OK first of all no one is prolly gonna read this after 20 other pages of posts but i think you after doing some unknown events like getting lightside or darkside points then after you aquire so many of these (should be rather difficult) it tells you where an npc is to give you the main quest to unlock you FSS (even better if your current character got like 100 extra skill points to become a jedi) but after you complete this npc's set of missions he tells you to go to another place in the wilderness abd then teh one you just completed dissapears as so people cant say where their current jedi quest person is to other people so the market doesnt get flooded with jedi. I think this would be a great idea and would work seemlessly (hopefully someone is patient enought to read this) and we need more skill points please *note if this shows upe more than once it is a weird thing that happens to me on all message boards sorry bout that
Dagith White-Horn Gorath server BH
Yango
Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:14 pm
#960
i think the holos should still be use in the quest so that way it wont put all the work that people spent getting them a waste. maybe have the holos guide you to the people you need to talk too and maybe the sith holo should lead u down the dark path. but dont make it to wheer u have to have a lot of holos to find all the poeple to take the quest from make it like the holo is just a jump start down the path. and the people giving you the quest lead u to the other people.
Imperial_Forces
Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:09 am
#961
Each holocron mastered profession should count to 10-15% of your quest "exp".
Every profession should count for 2-5% of you quest "Exp".
Anything left over can be made by doing quest "exp" missions or whatever.
Its the only way to make it partially fair to those that have spent 6+months on the current system.
If its not balanced and ppl have to restart there Jedi profession you can be sure there will be alot of ppl wondering why they should continue on.
Dacktar
Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:44 am
#962
I think that any combat quests should be possible to complete by yourself, and not have to gain the aid of others as the idea is that you are being tested on your abilities to become a Jedi.
There should also be Artisan type quests where you need to learn how to construct Holocrons or a Lightsaber. Perhaps having to gather components.
Scouting quests should also be included as a Jedi needs to learn the art of Survival.
Hinrick Kemlar 
Master Artisan
Marksman 4.0.0.3
Scout 4.0.4.2
Merchant 3.2.2.3
CH 0.0.0.1