Development Cycle Archive
Thread: ID#2: Two Changes to Bazaars and Vendors
Bazzar Cap Yes
Vendor Cap NO...
I sell Resources... mainly in lots of 5k-25k... just b/c people dont need that much of the same item once and a while... Right now i have roughly 8 million resource units for sale on 2 vendors... Now at the breakdown of on a average of 10k per lot thats 800 items... That is roughly 5.5+ vendors i would need... Now i have master merchant so 6 vendors isnt a problem for me... HOWEVER... I do sometimes have 10 million resources and i wouldnt beable to place them all on the vendors for people to purchuse... AND if i was to put them in my little tent (b/c i need the other lots for harvs) I dont even have enouf room to store everything...
PrincessThea wrote:
Increase Bazaar Cap -Vote NO !!
- One of the reasons that commerce works so well in SWG is because of the 3K cap!! The 3K cap insures you can still get vital items, ie stims, sm qtys of resources, powerups, ect.. But more expensive and specialized items you will need to seek a player vendorwhich Ithought that was the point of it all!!. I believe this will hurt private vendor shoppes everywhere! Why bother going to a player shoppe when you can get most items now on the bazaar. Why bother getting merchant skillswhen you can just sell your stuff on the bazaar !! This will hurt merchants everywhere!!!!! I beg you to please reconsider.
150 Item Cap on Vendors- Vote NO !!
- First I will say that I understand that your concerned aboutpeople abusing the vendor limits by using them for storage and what not. But this is only a small minority, the rest use the vendors correctly as intended just to sellour wares. And these are the people its going to hurt, the majority. Some vendors sell hundreds of items a day, I know mine do. The biggest problem(besides the obvious decreased sales)would be not offering much of a selection to our customers. I sell furniture, so I go right down the list alphabetically and craft like 3-6 each of it all to put in my vendor. My customers get to see the entire selection and choose what suits them. Tailors have it worse because they need to do the same, but in many different colors.Also,maintaining our vendors stock would need to be doneon a dailybasis to keep them full. I have alot of structures andharvestors to maintain, which is time consuming enough and feels like a real job, but to havelog in everyday to craft and fill the vendors will just add morechores for me to do. I would rather spend the bulk of my online time enjoying the star wars galaxyandexploring the planets.In conclusion, if there must be a limit would you consider 350? This would be enough to sustain most people's current levels of sales and stocking routines.
Prinethea -------<<<---@
I totally agree with PrincessThea (post on page #9), she explained the reasons why these changes would not be a good thing so instead or rewriting the same in a not so good way here's just a copy/paste as a reminder. I would just like to add that I am both a master artisan and a master merchant. Having a cap at 150 on vendors would hurt "cheap items" artisans (chefs, tailors, medicine crafters etc.), who rely on huge quantities of sales since each sale is only a benefit of a few tenth or hundreds credits, and would introduce an unbalance compared to "expensive items" retailers (architects, resource vendors, weapons...) who can get much more benefits on each item they sell. If there's a cap on vendor it must be on the total amount of sale prices, not on the number of items.
About the so-called technical issue of players not checking all the pages and therefore missing items : this is the problem of the merchant, who can put less items in his vendor if he wants more visibility for each item, and of the buyer, who can browse the pages and the categories if he really wants to find something. This is not a technical issue. Let each merchant decide if he wants to limit the number of sales on his vendor, don't impose it this is a very bad idea.
The issue with people not properly sorting through the lists has never been a result of the number of items each player is selling, but the incredibly poor interface through which they can sort and view those same items. Surfing through 10 pages of steel when looking for ore is a royal pain, but the bazaar doesn't allow players to properly narrow search fields.
A tiered system with a greater emphasis on sub-categories would allow faster navigation through the system and promote much more balanced shopping. If I can search for Lokian Wild Wheat (instead of Resource Container/Organic), it makes it more likely that I'll search galaxy wide. When faced with the task of going through every single organic resource container (thousands) to find a good deal, buying the first thing I see is a pretty appealing alternative. Even if sorting by name applied to ALL items in a category rather than just the items displayed on the current page would be helpful.
I must admit that the post is somewhat troubling to me. It seems that the idea is to reduce the number of items and to keep the price cap on the bazaar low. This is like saying that we have too many products available at Wal-Mart. The Bazaar is like a Wal-Mart with no staff, no listings of what's in each aisle etc. Instead of reducing the amount of stock, increase the customer's ease of access to that stock. The last thing the in game economy needs is further shackling and reducing the number of items on the bazaar would make things worse than they currently are. Many players have great difficulty finding what they want in shops and the bazaar is the alternative. Why not raise the sales cap even higher... the max price for an item could be directly proportional to the level attained in the merchant skill tree. The current system is akin to having the U.S. goverment limit the maximum value of an item sold on the internet to 50$. It's not realistic, it does not encourage economic growth and certainly does not make any sense to me. We have space travel, landspeeders (finally) and holocrons... but our market won't allow a sale of anything more expensive than a Big Mac unless you go to a boutique ?
The first change I like alot and agree with others that it should be higher, around the 10k range. My main reason for this is being a Scout and selling the resources I harvest gets to be a real pain in the rear quarter when I have to break them down into 5 to 10 chunks just to keep from going over the cap. And I've noted many times one player having to buy multiple chunks to get what they want. It would save both of ustime and frustration not having to do this dance. As far as prices are concerned, I know mine are probably going to change very little because I watch the market and sell for around the going rate (tossing in the occasional sale items just to keep things fun 
).
I also like Diajo's idea of having the cap removed for auction items, so big ticketitems could occasionally be put up there. Here you could probably puta cap on the number ofthese big items and restrictwho could do so by Artisan/Merchant skill level. I think it would definitely help the over alleconomy, not to mention it could be some good advertising for Artisans/Merchants.
The second change is more like a new chapter in my personal nightmare. I agree with several of the others here, too. There is nothing worse then running out 4 clicks to visit the vendorof my favor Merchant, only to find it completely drained empty because they sell good quality at a decent price. Aaaack! And that's with them currently being able to stock them with as much as they can. I don't even want to imagine how bad it will get with this change.
Brhrrhrrh! Very frightening stuff IMO.
To add to this scenerio, now when I'mtrying to finda particle item (usually of a particular quality - pickyI guess 
) I'm going to have a bazillion more vendorsto search through to findit.
Uuugh! 
I really don't mind searching through a longer list if I going to find a variety of the things I need on one vendor asopposed to having to bounce from vendor to vendor to vendor to vendor.... One thing that would help immensely, as someone pointed out earlier, is to fix the sorting of the lists. It currently does make for a terrible mess to search through.
As an artisan and an archetect im all for raising the cap on the bazaar in cities that would make it more convienant for the ones that use the bazaar and not so high that we will be seeing high end constructions and items on there but a larger variety of items i would also consider raising the bazaar limit by 5 items you can place for sale
as a merchant i am in agreeance that there should be a vender cap but i feel that a cap in the 300-500 range would be better as i am well known for having 300-500 items up for sell on occassion<im not the best speller i know>it would also promote the need to actually take merchant skills up to get another vender
Kandorianan Kordeth Councilman Hodeni ClanKordeth
Master Artisan / Master Archetect Master Artisan / munitions merchant
Northern Valley Association Unguilded
Kaadu Valley Naboo Naritus Keren Naboo Shadowfire
Sherinala Shirou Imperial Lieutenant
Master Creature Handler/ Holotrash
Doom
Valley of Doom Dantooine Lowca
I don't like raisining the limit for the bazaar.
Why:
1. Because it takes away traffic to the vendors. If you do it, you should give merchant xp for sales on the bazaar over 3k.
2. Due to the 3k restriction, some items are sold cheaper then they would if this barrier didn't exist.I like that idea of going to the bazaar and saying, ok lets check if there is some nice stuff i can afford now. 3k I have now and then, 6kI don't have to spend very often.
Vendor Limit: Ok I see the technical need for this, but I think you should give vendors something else in exchange. My question would be though, do you have a statistic about the vendors ? Like whats the max amount of items in a vendor you ever saw, what's the average what's the mean etc. For you to make that decision I guess you have data like that. A nice perk for vendors would be something like show all items of this type (showing you all dx2 pistols f.e.).
JMHO, plz don't shoot me
Ala
I feel sorry for whoever has to read 41 pages of comments on this feature just to get the "players opinions". But anyways..
Raising the price cap - Indifferent. It really doesnt matter to me.
Limiting the item cap - The reason behind this is to limit the time spent on searching for items, correct? Instead of placing a cap, why not give us an advanced search? Base it on the following queries:
- Item name/type
- Quality of items (such as crafting tools and stims)
- Overall quality/Amount (resources)
- Name of vendor/object creator
Furthermore, I would like to see a plantery search on something like this for merchant vendors. Much like a catalog. Often times it is very frusturating running to a vendor just to find out they're out of stock or no longer selling at all. It does not have to be galaxy wide. Just a local planetary catalog will do.
How about thinking of the vendor item cap this way:
Take a small Mom'n'Pop shop. Isn't very big, not much maintainance. Can't keep too many items in stock, because the store is simply too small. But, in retrospect, that shop doesn't cost too much. So it works out.
Now, you take a large corporation like Wal-Mart. They've HUGE stores, with plenty of items in stock. But with that huge store comes alot of upkeep and work; but they can sell lots of different items.
Specializing? A specialized store wouldn't have too much to offer (Mom'n'Pop). A universal store has lots to offer (Wal-Mart). If your store is good, you're going to advertise it, right? Well, advertising, even in this game, has its costs.
Before you post, really think about how you can reduce the numbers on your vendors. You'll see that 50 of the same item isn't that necessary. And if it is, you're a sucessful Merchant, and already have the skill and time to not be bothered by a lowered cap.
If the dev team wants a player driven economy I suggest chucking that vendor cap. 150 items?
9 pieces of armor = 1 full suit (avg).
150/9 = 16.5 Suits of armor.
"Why, thats alot of armor!" you say.
Not if you factor in that I may be stocking 5 seperate types of armor (Composite, Padded, Ubese, Chitin and Mabari. I would add Tantel, but there seem to be some missing pieces:smileywink Now, lets take into account Advanced Armor...Each of these armors listed above has an advanced form that can be crafted. Now I'm going to sprinkle layers into the mix. And believe me, there are many many combinations of layers for each suit of armor (Ubese, Padded and Composite).
"Wait a minute!" You say? I almost forgot PSGs. There are three types of Personal Shield Generators that I can sell...
And Armor Upgrade Kits!
Thunderheart, as aMaster Armorsmith, Master Artisanand Master Merchant, I am feeling very ostracized as a player. If this 150 item limit is implemented I'm going to hang up the old anvil, cancel my crafting toons account and stick with pure combat.
The reward for being a crafter seems to dwindle from month, to month.
regards,
A.C.
obidrew
ZallusNuranxis wrote:
I have another concern about putting a 150 item cap on a vendor. Currently player cities do not have bazaars so all merchandise must be done through vendors. By limiting the number of items on vendors you can be seriously limiting the economic viability of cities that rely on sales tax to sustain their community. I have enough problems maintaining my vendors now with over 150 items.If this is implemented Iguess I will just have to raise my prices to lower my demand and further screw the economy. Hey it's just a game but I don't want to spend every waking hour restocking my 150 item vendors. I make items becuase I enjoy it, but I like doing other things in the game too besides getting tells all time time with complaints about such-as-such items not in the vendor.
I guess I have to apologiza for using a successful business model and havecreated good compnay. It's all my fault I have a monopoly. In life, if you run a porr business you fail and go bankrupt, period. Creating this cap does not reduce the monopoly, it just limits successful business people from operating and their fullest ability and does not address all the people selling horribly overpirced items that aren't worth the materials they are made from.
If you implement a cap on personal vendors please allow cities to have bazaars to compensate for the potential loss of items a city can have available.
A good point about vendors affecting player cities.
I do not know if this was every taken into account.
A good reason for having ID focus threads.
However, allowing player cities to have bazaar terminals would hurt vendors far more than any cap they put on vendors.
If the goal is to have a player run economy and encourage merchants to participate in the game,
having a bazaar terminal available on every street corner will effectively kill the profession.
XanEldarie wrote:
Bazaar cap raised; questionable, leaning towards, "Yes, raise them please"
Vendor cap established; ABSO-FICKEN-LUTELY! If you are going to be a merchant with 100s or 1000s of items to sell, then be a Merchant! Creating a cap-per-vendor is a great way to raise the interest level of becoming a merchant, and taking pride in how you have your vendor(s) set up. Such as: 1 vendor for Weapons, 1 vendor for Resources, etc. Yes, I know most merchants already do that with thier vendors, but isn't it so nice? Its like an index; helps you find what you're looking for. And yes, oh yes, would it reduce the monopolies.
With both of these changes to take effect, they should compliment eachother nicely. People selling just basic stuff would be less inclined to get a vendor, and people selling large amounts of higher-value stuffs would be more inclined. If you are a true Merchant, then you would have no problem having to get more skill to get more vendors. If not, you've still a chance to sell your product(s) on the global bazaar.
As long as they are BOTH implimented, then they are BOTH a good thing. I don't think you can have one of these changes without the other.
Thanks!
Are you stupid?
That makes no sense. Right now the maximum number of vendors a merchant can have is 6. A 150 item cap will mean a maximum of only 900 items. That may sound like alot, but bear in mind A) branching out, B) more then one craft (i.e. a tailor and a weaponsmith). Being able to only sell a maximum of 900 items will hurt crafters since they will be limited in what they can sell and where they can sell it at.
I already have to decide how I am going to divide my vendors between my tailor shop and my weapon shop and then my additional stores when I branch out. This is hard enough as it is since I do not wish to be a crafter who floods a single vendor with a ton of multiple items. In all honesty as a weaponsmith I wanted a vendor for pistols, carbines, rifles, heavy weapons and melee. I get only 6 vendors that need to be shared with my tailor professian as well and that need to be used to branch out. So I can forget that idea. I have talked myself into having a melee, firearms and munitions vendor. Not what I wanted, but I am making due.
Now with a 150 cap on each of those 3 vendors you tell me how I am supposed to keep up with demand. Look at firearms alone. That is pistols, carbines and rifles. Now add up the number of pistols, carbines and rifles. Now mulitply those numbers by 20. That is how many items I will need to have on the firearms vendor at any given time IN THE LEAST. Otherwise I'll be stuck logging about twice a day to restock. Then there is also the munitions vendor. Same story. How many different greandes and heavy weapons are there in the commando tree? Then the LLC, Launcher Pistol (which is on the pistol vendor too)... How in the world will I even be able to get all this on my 150 item capped vendor?GIVE ME THE ANSWER!
How am I going to branch out to attract more customers and make it easier for my already established client base to shop with me since my main store will be located in Dantooine?
Then we have my tailor professian too! I got how many vendors left now? 3? Well doesn't that suck! I was planning to have a vendor for field wear, formal, every day, wookie and clearance. I can forget that! So 3 vendors without the possibility of branching out... Let's see, how can I make that work? Well I can't. Unless I have those 3 vendors with very generic titles who are going to be flooded and poorly orangized. Wookie clothes with people wear? Field wear with dresses? Not what I wanted at all. But just when I think things can't get any worse they do! Now each of those vendors are capped at 150 items. Just remembered... I also wanted a vendor for shoes and accesories.
So as you can see, as a weaponsmith I am screwed. As a tailor I am screwed more so unless I have poorly orangized vendors. The possibility of branching out is now eliminated also. And, oh my! I now got everyone selling the same clothes as me on the bazaar.
Someone remind me... Why did I waste so many skill points on merchant? Since now anyone can sell just about anything on the bazaar and my already vendor nightmare just got worse.
As a Master Merchant i feel both the proposed changes are good. I really like the reach of the bizarre as far as customer base, and i think it is a great way to get things out there. I often find the 3k cap to be quite limiting though, because there are many small items that i just cant sell on the bizarre for 3k. A 6k cap would be more reasonable.
I also support a vendor cap of 150. i opperate 7 vendors and none of them have even 100 items on them. so i don't think that capping the vendors at 150 will really hurt many legit merchants.
TheAbjurer wrote:
As to the item bloat, have you guys ever considered a hybrid of a vendor and an item factory?
It would have slots that a crafter could insert a schematic and its associated resources into.
This hybrid machine displays a list of all items it has shematics for.
The customer selects the item to buy, pays, and the machine creates the item on demand and consumes resources that are already loaded into the machine. No more items can be produced once its resources are exhausted.
This would drastically reduce the number of new and unused items that exist as database entries.
Another EXCELLENT idea - just in time inventory, manufacturing on demand!