Development Cycle Archive

---

RamhornSWG wrote:

You know whats really funny about all this?

I have been following the debates about the changes to the crafting system in publish 7.

Most of the weaponsmiths on the forums agree that the quality of all weapons will drop there current stats.

Basically, all the weapons you use now are going to be "pre-nerf" pretty soon.

The funny part is this:

In one discussion Thunderheart suggested that a smart crafter would make weapons now before the changes went live.

I think that was a smart statement.

Problem is:

Thats what alot of us did on the first round of nerfs. The ones in crates sound like now they are going to be "adjusted"

Anyways, I wonder if all of the weaponsmiths crafting like mad before publish 7 are going to empty everything out of crates?

Ahh the nerf of "pre-nerf" and the "pre-nerf" handling of post nerf storage LOL

---

All comes from the simple fact that SOE has not the will to take away overpowered things from players. Any GM worth his or her salt in a tabletop game knows that if you have something overpowered in your game you either have to adjust all of your world to compensate, or remove/adjust the overpowered thing. Any sane person will remove/adjust the lone overpowered thing, not beef/altera ton of thingsjust to handle it.

---

Mohr wrote:
So those of us that "listened" to SOE and deleted the crates of pre-nerf items...well...I don't know that I even have the strength left to ask the question.

---

Actually, SOE never said delete the items... They simply said remove the items from your inventory. I removed them from my inventory into my safety deposit box. There's no way I would delete such a potentially valuable crate. Then I visited the forums and saw that TH said to hold on to them until further notice.

Sorry dude.

---

Joslo wrote:
Um, who was it who said that taking things away from players is bad?

---

If you remove the power supply for these pistols it will drop the stats to levels likely below what is currently craftable for FWG5s and such.

Thunderheart, this may not be physically "taking items away" from players, but by taking the special stats away from the item (higher damage and speed) you are effetively doing just that. I read that you (and other devs) were very against item confiscation. Do you not think this chnge to crated pre-nerf pistols is awfully close to confiscation?

---

Palimor wrote:

---

You are correct. Even better you will have guns with names like 80-220 damage FWG5 that will now only be 175 max damage (I just made up those numbers). I am sure customers will love buying there 220 max damage labeled gun only to realize it is actually only 175 damge

---

A Dev reads this and says DOH, we didnt think about that!

---

That's why we have /examine

---

PaxRomana wrote:

---

Joslo wrote:
Um, who was it who said that taking things away from players is bad?

---

If you remove the power supply for these pistols it will drop the stats to levels likely below what is currently craftable for FWG5s and such.

Thunderheart, this may not be physically "taking items away" from players, but by taking the special stats away from the item (higher damage and speed) you are effetively doing just that. I read that you (and other devs) were very against item confiscation. Do you not think this chnge to crated pre-nerf pistols is awfully close to confiscation?

---

That taking away quote is taken SOOOOOOOOO out of context. What they meant was with the Imperial crackdown there was rumors that if you got cought with contraband it would be removed from your inventory and confiscated (sp?). But TH then stated the quote about removing things would be a bad idea. It has NO bearing ont he topic at hand.

They are fixing something that was broken, and holy crap who uses a FWG5 anyway? They have no AP and does almost no damage.

Norda

---

KzinKiller wrote:

In fact, the context is irrelevant, the quote is quite appropriate for this thread.

---

Bull. The context is 100% important. Because you're trying to use this quote to show a contradiction where, in fact, there is none.

---

Hero_DarkJedi wrote:

Greets ...

I didn't read the whole thread but as a master weaponsmith I can tell you the guns will be *less powerful* then what they were.

When something is made the *sum* of the components is added up ... if one of the components is not there, then the *sum* is less.

In the case of the FWG5 it's missing an Advanced Power Handler ... which generally accounts for 40 points of damage ... so I will bet dollars to donuts that when you pull the prenerfs out of the crate they will be about 40 points less damage then they are labeled by the WeaponSmith in the title.

You at least are not losing the guns ... they are just in line with what us WS's make today.

---

Look, all you folks trying to stir up a storm about whining this, whining that, you are missing the freaking point I've been trying to pull up here. As Hero here states, components factor into the make of a weapon. However where the fallacy is is this : unless they do keep track of exactly the same components at build time for each and every crafted item, the number is arbitrary - and being abritrary it means it is just a number they pulled out of the air.

Hero says 'generally accounts for 40 points of damage' - and also around 0.4 speed I might add. Also the build was made using broken projectile feed mechanisms (no min damage stat). This of course can't be a hard and fast rule. What if my handlers were only adding 38 damage? What if they were adding 42? What if I used a regular handler and it only added 20 damage? Will FWG5s madepre-nerf with regular components have this arbitrary number subtracted from it? How will the 'new' feed be generated, with a new min? Will it be generated at all?

The only actual fair way to properly adjust these stats is if they do indeed keep track of every single components that goes into the build of an item. Do you have any idea how much information that must be? Is this the DB paradigm? It sounds awfully wasteful. Yet they say they are having troubles and need to punish merchants by placing limits on vendors, to ease the DB, yet it totally blows out if they are actually keeping dibs individually?

And if they aren't tracking each individual components - then subtracting an arbitrary number from the stats is a pretense. It's false. There is no direct correlation to the removal of a handler. It's not *necessary* to adjust this, it cannot be said "oh well, the handler is gone so the new calculation reflects this" because this number is externally inserted by a third party - the devs. It won't be a case of :

Damage = damage based off materials + handler + feed + barrel

Becoming :

Damage = damage based off materials + feed + barrel

But instead :

Damage = Damage listed on the factory crate of the gun - (insert arbitrary number here)

Either their database is keeping track of way way too many items, or they are just flat out lying to us.

Most of us already dealt with this FWG5 nerf. Unlike what some of you thoughtless clowns say, we're not all whining because suddenly our allegedly ultra powerful guns are gone. I'd respect the devs more if they just flat out said "We are taking an arbitrary number off the stats of all pre nerf weapons" rather than make up some bull story about the actual genuine calculation subtracting the real component at build. Most of us have written off these things anyway, but we've gotten

1) Pre nerf crates busted. Assumed it was deliberate

2) Big fights on the forums about it

3) Announced it was a bug - fix is imminent

4) Even more shouting as crates got deleted as told to be ingame emails

5) Turns out fix is a useless rehash

6) More conflict ensues

This is less about any darned FWG5 now, so you people who are beating us down can take the long walk - because you have no idea what the big picture is, obviously. This is about communication and respect. Capiche?

---

Hwind wrote:

---

Joslo wrote:
Thunderheart, on January 26th, wrote the following:

"Nothing gets confiscated - - taking items away from players is very bad."

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=TestCenter&message.id=57325

That lasted a long time.

---

Agree

---

Old old data never confirmed. There are other ways to loose an item from a harvester. rollback being the most likely.

-Indene-

P.S. the loss of the wheat is not in question here. The presumption it was taken during a contraband sweep is. And that was on TC where bugs are expected.

Scenario A: Crafter invests resources to craft a particular item ... suddenly the item does not perform to the specifications that required the initial investment of resources ... something was taken.

Scenario B: Player purchases numerous weapons from weaponsmith, bases price on specific qualities of weapon ... weapon loses some portion of those qualities and purchaser no longer has what they purchased ... something was taken.

What's the saying from 'Outlaw Josie Wales' ..... "Senator, don't **** down my back and tell me it's rainin' ..."

---

KzinKiller wrote:

Scenario A: Crafter invests resources to craft a particular item ... suddenly the item does not perform to the specifications that required the initial investment of resources ... something was taken.

Scenario B: Player purchases numerous weapons from weaponsmith, bases price on specific qualities of weapon ... weapon loses some portion of those qualities and purchaser no longer has what they purchased ... something was taken.

What's the saying from 'Outlaw Josie Wales' ..... "Senator, don't **** down my back and tell me it's rainin' ..."

---

Can we apply this logic to BE-CH pets too? I invested several million credits on Super10 pets who after their nerf are worth 10k-50k maybe.

-Indene-

P.S. I did offer to and refund all of my customers that had bought and were able to return their CL Super10's.

---

CharPrime wrote:

with a sliced and powerup pistol, see how long your pistol last.

i was at the weapon develpment poi on naboo for about 4 hours this weekend. i cycle through 3 repbluic blaster (strange a pistolwith no cert, ap1 andbetter then prenerf stuff, overpower?) that was sliced and powerup. all 3 when down 300 condition after the fight. don't even bring up that crap of a repair system we have. no it was not overcharge, it was torse shots.

---

I remember a time :

• when my weapon lasted more than a few days


• when I hadn't to kick a lair over 5 min to destroy it


• when incap time lasted a few secs


• when I looted over 20 items on a dark jedi in a group of 20 chars


• when I had fun on corpse run


• ... when I enjoyed this game much more playing than chating with my in game friends

It seems I am good for retirement

Deewe

G$D D%^M it............................ I dont remember signing up to play the BETA version for this freaking game 8 months ago.............Big freaking deal SOE give us our weapons at some point they will all be gone anyway.................................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get this crap fixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!