Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Crafting Critical Failure Rates

Drummerboychris
Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:39 pm
#79

try doing it at home during peak hours. (i mean from your home, not from work). i feel that lag greatly increases critical failures.

just a suggestion



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BlueGeezer
Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:53 pm
#80

im probably repeating everyone else but maybe ill just emphasize their points!


lag is the ultimate killer it seems to affect the rate by a STUPIDLY large margin...



anything but a great success is indeed a failure to me this is not due to any perfectionism instilled in me but rather due to the fact that the stats suffer greatly if you DONT get a great success or better...


speaking of which the penalties as you get higher in the proffession shouldnt be as harsh a master crit failure should be the equivalent of a good success is now this way although you still may get crit failures at master level its still sellable if not exactly what you want...


if you dont do that at least reduce crit failure penalty its stupidly large where it just destroys the item there and then... and moderate success actually makes the item go down in stats?? **edit**?


a master should probably START at 4% failure rate but with the necessary tools and stations reduce that to 1-2% easily with skill tapes and research bonus reducing it to 0.2-0.8%



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Vashner
Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:13 pm
#81

Hey DEV I can save you a lot of math trouble..


Here is Vash math..


CRITS FAILS = NOT FUN..


Wow.. now that's power .. customer service style..





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Flentil
Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:34 pm
#82

Please fix it so that creating a schematic doesn't destroy the materials. It doesn't make sense, and for architects it really doesn't make sense for a whole house's worth of raw materials to vanish just because you copied down the plans. It's recording data, not an anti-matter disintigration system.



Chaice
Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:41 pm
#83

A master crafter should have an increased chance of great success and 0-1% chance of crit failure...


I can see a master crafter not making perfectly awesome product 100% of the time, but to crit fail 5% of the time and only get great successes 10-20% of the time is sad...


Should be 50-60% great success rate and 0-1% crit failure.... anything else is like using holocrons to unlock the jedi slot... just plain stupid... For heaven's sake MASTER crafters are not crit failing/moderate making crafters... they are MASTERS!!!!


Glad to see SOE is actually aware of the issue... now convince them that it is a problem and we can go from there...



Think of it like RL if you have to, but make sure MASTER craftsman means something....
Arrya
Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:49 pm
#84


A 4% failure rate seems small, except that to build one thing is 1 assembly and 10-12 experimentations - with a chance of failure on each one - fail on one part of any of that and the item is useless. When you are doing things with sub components, and when those sub components have their own sub components- suddenly you get a situation where it is abnormal not to get a failure All this despite my tool telling me I am always at zero percent chance of risk.


-Crafting Tools


-Crafting Stations


-City specializations


It would really help the crafting community to have dev numbers on what these actually do for us, and have that visible during the crafting process in some way.





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taloncard
Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:11 pm
#85

I am a med crafter the problem isn't so much the number of critical failures but that the station/tool ratings have no effect on the rate. I use a +12.89 tool and a +43.01 station that should pretty much bring the chances of a critical failure to almost nothing.
However I seem to have a very high rate of failure with 1 particulart device

the Advanced or basic chemical release duration mechanism. Doesn't matter the quality of the resources I use my failure rate is way to high for this. I have had as many as 10 (yes 10) critical failures in a row with this device. now the complexity of this device is rather high...but a stimpack D is much more complex and I have little to no problem crafting them.

Start polling what the device rating is and what people are specifically crafting I think you will find medicine crafting has a high rate of failure.

I also am a 3/3/4/4 artisan and my artisan crafting goes very well with almost no critical failures even when I use aboslute garbadge resources.




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kenseideathbringer
Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:29 pm
#86

I just came to cry. I bought 200k worth of nightsister layers and shards too make one chest, crit during assembly! spent 700k to get enough for 3 more tries, 1 crit during assembly the other two had multiple fails during experimentation! 900k down the drain chest peices turned out like 47% with higher hams than regular comp.! why would i ever want to play again? Where is the fun of master i saved all this money as a new master to make a cool item or two and blam no chance! I used a r2 unit crafting droid as my home machine fails much more.



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Hero_DarkJedi
Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:36 pm
#87

Greets ...


Hope I am not to late to chim in here.


I am NOT concerned with Crits myself.


I AM concerned with MODERATE success's though.


I am a Master Weapons smith ... using just about the best tool and station.


There are certain schems that I get almost 25% mods returned on average.


Now ... if I was working with really poor materials I could see that ... but when you are working on schems that exp up to 95% and it takes you 8 or 9 tries to get through experimenting, 1 point at a time, before you can get one with *great* success's all the way through ... well ... that IS a big problem.


If you experiment 1 point at at time you should get a great success all the time ... when you experiment with more then 1 point at a time there is added risk and and your chance of getting a moderate should increase.


Likewise the chance for a moderate should increase if you are working with junk resources ... junk is harder to work with ... but if your working with near perfect resources, then your experimentation should be a lot less risky.


Hope you read this.






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Chrysalide
Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:13 am
#88





Hello everyone,


For those of you with which I have not had the pleasure to interact, I am the developer that has been tasked with reviewing the rate of critical failures during crafting. We felt that this was an important issue to look into, as many of the player correspondent for the crafting professions are reporting that the crafting community as a whole are reporting an abnormally high percentage of critical failures.


In an effort to document some concrete numbers, Thunderheart and I worked in conjunction with some of the player correspondents on Test Center over the last several days. We began logging crafting attempts for assembly and experimentation, and the critical failures for these areas, to see exactly what the rate of failure was. The results of this test case are as follows:



Assembly attempts: 1448
Assembly critical failures: 65
Assembly critical failure rate: 4.49%


Experimentation attempts: 1284
Experimentation critical failures: 54
Experimentation critical failure rate: 4.21%


These numbers do fall within the expected parameters of the crafting system. Regardless, the significant number of people that have raised this issue does still lend this topic an air of legitimacy. I am interested in hearing any suggestions, comments, and/or concerns that the crafting community (or anyone at all) might have about critical failures as they relate to the crafting process.


I do have a minor change to crafting in development somewhat reducing the rate of critical failure. I believe this solution will be amicable to everyone, but I am definitely open to hearing any feedback about the existing system that anyone might have. While we may not be able to implement every suggestion, we do take them to heart and will do what we can to make it the best system for all parties involved.


Thanks to everyone for all your help, and your continued support,




Jeff "Chrysalide" Carpenter
Developer

Message Edited by Chrysalide on 01-26-2004 12:13 PM



Jeff "Chrysalide" Carpenter
SWG Lead Systems Designer

Sketh
Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:17 am
#89

Chrysalide


Do you have a breakdown by class (e.g., WS vs DE) for these stats?


Thanks



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Lynchmawb
Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:18 am
#90

I guess my question would be what was the quality of the tools you used? I think maybe the the thing that is broke is maybe the quality of tools don't really seem to matter. There should be some benifit to be using a quality tool and thus far it has not been the case.
raz1337
Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:19 am
#91

what about great success and amazing success rates?





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