CUEmu - Thread Posts

Atiw

Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:58 pm

Bentos wrote:

There will be no Jedi who are 4004 LS upon revamp. They will be 4004 LS with TKA, Fencer and Medic. PLUS you will have outstanding AOEs and around 2k Force with 23 Regen. No worries of TEFs. What more do you want, honestly?

Bentos, I've been playing a converted Jedi on TC1 since the patch hit, with TKM/Fencer 4/0/3/0, Medic and LS 4/0/04, Defender 0/0/0/1

Trust me, losing armor is a BIG deal. At my level, you run in, spam enough specials to kill everything fast before they hit you too hard, then run out and wait for your pool to regen.

Getting to choose other skills simply does not make up for the removal of armor protection.

Imap

Wongsiufu

Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:58 pm

#80

Jedi and Combat

If you worry about Force Armor stacking withrobe resist, make them don't stack. So when a Jedi use Force Armor, the system ignore the resist on his robe. If you worry about PvP balance with non-Jedi, give the robe low resist and more vulnerables. As long as force armor not stacking with robe resist, you will not have god mode Jedi.

Actually now it punish low level Jedi more than a dabbler. For a Jedi trying to get Jedi xp, he need to use his lightsaber, which means he cannot use armor. But a TKM/Jedi (or any profession) can get enhancement 4400 (or master enhancement even better). He will be in god mode in PvE and PvPvs other non-Jedi. Turn on force armor, resist poison/disease, then wear his 80% composite and use VK. He can even make a macro: undress armor, force run 3, dress armor.

Skills can be used with normal professions. This is fine for some cases. But force armor is too powerful. And I believe this is the main reason they don't give us robe with protection.

Solution: Using force armor will ignore the armor/PSG protection. Jedi still cannot wear armor. But give Jedi robe minimum resist. Low level Jedi need this to survive, at least give us 30% kinetic/energy AR1 protection robe.

Message Edited by Wongsiufu on 06-23-2004 11:05 AM

Corbantis Siufu {Fong Shen}

Bountyhunter

Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:58 pm

#81

Teras Kasi are in the cannon watchdogs of the Jedi Council...

and serve on thier own council thats only job is to keep the all powerful jedi in check..

in the cannon TKM are pretty much FS.. but they use it differntly than Jedi do...

I do agree that TKM to fit in the cannon should be almost as points intensive as BH as it should be a super elite profession.. dabblers in TKM and defence stackers are completely unbalacing specially Med line dabblers....

I really think its cool that the devs are using such a little known profession like TKM to be the jedi counter exactly as it was in the books..

but again this should be a special damage from TKM only.... like lightsaber only for TKM only so that stops uber dabblers from making jedi killers with the uber FOTM defence/melee template.

MatchstickNaritus

Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:59 pm

#82

Matchstick is in RED.

We will be adding descriptions and final skill point costs to the conversion guide. As it stands, we are still tweaking the conversion rates and may continue to tweak them in the future. We know you are going to evaluate and post them. If we were to post them, it would become canon and we could never change them without massive protest.

Just to clarify. There's only going to be ONE conversion. So when you say "tweak them in the future" the future refers to the next 5 days. At some point, they WILL become canon, please make the player base aware of what the exact chart is at that time. There's no need to allow us the fun of discovering it on our own. It's not like knowing AFTER the 29th will be valuable in any way.

Jedi are not being designed to be the perfect solo character that can defend against all other classes. Jedi are not “scrappers” and by definition, Teras Kasi was developed specifically to fight Jedi at close range.This will be especially true when Jedi are given the ability to block ranged attacks back at their opponents. Melee attacks are something the Jedi should be wary of.

Hmm.... I would say that Jedi ARE in fact "scrappers". Luke killed the Rancor without a lightsaber, and he seemed to do well on Jabba's skiffs vs. those Weequay with pikes. But I understand your point. However, the Teras Kasi profession is a mundane profession and very simple to achieve (or any other melee profession). This does not make sense that a Jedi should be wary of them per se, when a Jedi has spent months upon months to acheive their ability. And Jedi truly ARE the perfect solo character... that was always the point.

Consider that the profession that requires the MOST skill points (Bounty Hunter) is the least equipped to handle Jedi, but they are the only ones that can get missions versus them. I fail to see the balance there. If you want to give Jedi some weakness... fine... but to single out the Teras Kasi as being specifically developed to fight Jedi at close range... then what is the weakness of the TKA?Melee dominates versus ranged right now in PvP. Rifleman is about the only ranged that can compete because of it's damage type, mind attack and ridiculous DPS. Other than that, it's nothing but Fencers, TKA and Combat Medics.... with a little of everything else thrown in. Is that the Star Wars environment the designers envisioned?

Bottom line... I know you need a **edit** in Jedi... otherwise it'll piss off everyone who isn't a Jedi... not to mention Jedi will get bored if there's no real challenge. But make sure that if TKA or melee or whatever is the Jedi weakness.... that THEY have a weakness as well. And really... Bounty Hunters AND TKA should be that weakness for Jedi, and the requirements for TKA should be increased like Bounty Hunter if they are to be like that.

Also, if we could have a dialogue regarding general combat balance after Pub 9 the way the Smugglers are right now with Green Marine with Keldarin or whomever.... that would be fantastic.

Hooded cloaks (as with all wearables in the game) are far more work intensive and very time consuming to produce than they appear to be. Huge actually. It’s not 1 cloak or 2 cloaks, but somewhere around 120cloaks would have to be produced internally for all Jedi robes to have hoods in the game.Here’s how it breaks down: There are currently 31 unique Jedi Robe Models. For each of those to be hooded, there needs to be a special version for Wookiees, Twilek and Mon Cal’s because of their heads and a version for the rest of the species, except for Trandos which get a special versionbecause oftheir feet. The time and manpower to create 120 cloaks isn't available at this time. We want and will do this in the future, but it is just not possible right now.

Canyou give us the ability to wear regular cloaks (that currently exist)in the interim? Robes look SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better with cloaks.

It's very very late in the game to implement my thoughts on this... but I've always believed that the trees should have been desiged where the skill point cost was always very low at the bottom, and they went up as you progressed. And that mods and skills within a profession were scaled accordingly. It would cause more dabbling... and less interdepancy (which is an issue of course) but would also alleviate balance IMO regarding the level of ability. The power contained in the box should dictate it's XP cost and SP cost. I.e. if you get some awesome mods and abilities in the master box, it should cost the most from both an XP persepctive AND a skill point perspective, with the same idea at the lower level boxes. Like I said... way too late in the game.. but it seems to be a more logical design to me.

Matchstick

Deerhunter716

Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:59 pm

#83

We want our robe resists. I think the statement was they would have resists equal to armor after combat revamp.

Exterminans77

Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:02 pm

#84

The list is sickening. This isn't a flame. Thats my honest reaction to reading it. We get no armor and now no resistance on robes. On top of that defense tree was nerfed. And you split our profession into 5 seperate professions. I wanna love the revamp but the cons out weigh the pro's. The title of the revamp should be Jedi Nerf because that is what it is. You have made our class the weakest. Where is the reward for 6 months of grinding to get a Jedi? A glow stick that does less damage than a power hammer? We don't expect to be all powerful at low levels but even at high levels we're weaker than most combat templates that can be grinded in 3 days.

Don't punish our class because you made a mistake in the original design of the unlocking process. So now because there are too many Jedi we have to be nerfed to the point of being useless.

Kane_Firestalker

Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:02 pm

#85

Thunderheart wrote:

Hooded cloaks (as with all wearables in the game) are far more work intensive and very time consuming to produce than they appear to be. Huge actually. It’s not 1 cloak or 2 cloaks, but somewhere around 120cloaks would have to be produced internally for all Jedi robes to have hoods in the game.Here’s how it breaks down: There are currently 31 unique Jedi Robe Models. For each of those to be hooded, there needs to be a special version for Wookiees, Twilek and Mon Cal’s because of their heads and a version for the rest of the species, except for Trandos which get a special versionbecause oftheir feet. The time and manpower to create 120 cloaks isn't available at this time. We want and will do this in the future, but it is just not possible right now.

Could you, at the very least, allow humans/zabraks, to wear the hooded cloak that exists (we've all seen it in pictures and movies you guys keep teasing us with), be wearable *over* the tunics? (or at least in replace of the tunic, for RP reasons) There was a time when it was said that only Jedi would be able to wear these, but all we've gotten is teased

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Burr

Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:03 pm

#86

Renairdor wrote:

Already got those: TKA/Fencer/Sword templates for PvE, and CM's for PvP

All for far far less time investment and effort.

Even Jedi Masters fall well short of the 'I Win' button mark in PvP, given group TEF tactics, Warcry, Flame DOT, Poisons, etc... the basic PvP problems affect everyone. It's just Jedi lose XP/rank for it.

Ren

Well, I just don't like the notion, shared by a few, that Jedi should automatically be heads and tails better than everyone just because. There needs to be some semblance of balance with them. I know that through various templates it is possible to create some pretty unbeatable characters, but that is mostly because a lot of the combat system of this game wasn't thoroughly thought out.Hopefully the combat balance takes care of that issue as there are numerous classes that need to be tweaked down (admittedly even my own template of MTKA and Master Rifleman),. Butin the meantime Jedi shouldn't be made a lot better than these uber templates because when the templatesare toned down, Jedi will be highly unbeatable.

----
Nothing personal..... it's just business...

Warder83

Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:06 pm

#87

TH,

Could you please give us a reason to as why the Knight Trials are just thrown together Seek and Destroy missions? I for one am utterly dissapointed in the total lack of content here. Jedi already have to kill hundreds of mobs to get to Knight, and to find LS components. Why are you making us do the same for the trials? I have a few questions:

1. Why are Dark and Light Jedi doing the same Trials? The choice of Dark or Light should be made over time by the decisions a Jedi makes.

2. Howare "Kill X number of Y" from a unknown voice a good idea? Where's the content?

3. You say Jedi are supposed to be secluded away from the general population, but then you give us these 'Trials' that force us to group... Which way is it?

If these current missions for the trials are just a tide over until the real content is comming, could you please tell us, as to put some minds to rest? And if not, please look at the boards, there are TONS of ideas for what the Knight Trials should be like.

The Trials should consist of a bunch of missions that are story driven like the theme parks. There should be multiple ways to complete each mission, a Good way and a Evil way. Bisically if you complete more of the Trials the good way you become a Light Jedi and vice versa for Dark. You guys have put hundreds of different normal missions in the game each with a little story blerb to go with it. Why is the most pinical of Events in a Jedi's Life being reduced to "Glorified Destroy Missions".

Where is the content?

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Tyreseus

Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:10 pm

#88

Thunderheart,4 things:

1. Meditate. Please do not take offense, but the explanation given by the dev team as to why meditate will not be adjusted was very vague (ie poor). What would be so unbalancing? The skill itself simply reduces force regen downtime, nothing more, at this point. We can argue back and forth but theres nothing "overpowering" about that.

I can see the dev team not wanting to give the exact type of meditation that TKA's get (healing disease, giving a buff, etc). Okay, fine. But theres no reason this skill itself couldnt be moved to synergy 1 or novice enhance, with the force regen rate while meditating allowed to be increased with extra box in synergy.

2. Skillpoints. If the dev team does not want to reduce the skill point costs, fine, but there is no reason to have FRS jedi/jedi knights be required to keep 24 points of FSskills that the devs have now just admitted are pretty useless for a FRS Jedi. It makes perfect sense to allow these skills to be unlearned and spent in other jedi skills because, remember, a jedi has to drop all his other non-jedi skills to become a knight/qualify for trials ANYWAY. There is no reason to force knights to have to keep these skills if they dont want them. That only frees up 24 more skill points, which isnt much, but would be a nice reward for reaching knight.

3. Jedi have to worry about melee attacks? This seems a bit odd considering melee is the way 99% of all jedi gain xp and fight. In fact it seems downright wierd to say that cuz every othercombat profession in the game isbuilt to be effective against the type of damage it deals out. Granted, jedi may not be "scrappers", but they are sword typefighters - any reason defenses vs melee attacks cant be increased? Currently, the only defense vs PvP melee attacks a jedi has isFA and toughness(im not counting the relatively weak passive melee defense skill bonuses). We're not saying we should be "gods", but based upon what the devs wrote it almost sounds like a TKA should be able to solo a jedi - is that what you meant to say?

4. Defense tree suggestion: Currently, the enhancmenet tree, with FA/FS is the "damage sponge" tree. How about making the defense tree the evasion tree? Already skill bonuses are in place for this, just make them more effective - a skill similar to CoB would help with this. To avoid "uber jedi" templates that combine the CoB and FA/FS, just have it so those powers wont work together. Thus, jedi have the option of being either a damage sponge, or a damage evader - allowing some diversity in the type of jedi you want to be.

Message Edited by Tyreseus on 06-22-2004 07:12 PM

Message Edited by Tyreseus on 06-22-2004 07:18 PM

Message Edited by Tyreseus on 06-22-2004 07:19 PM

Exterminans77

Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:12 pm

#89

Really I can't think of how anyone who has played a Jedi (and knows the issues the class faces) can defend this revamp. The things we suggest that could possibly fix it are shot down. You say you want our communication but the pressing issues we want addressed are responded with "NO" after "NO."

This revamp needs to be pushed back even further. A week is no where near enough time to fix this if this is the direction the devs are going. Please don't push this live.

Burr

Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:14 pm

#90

Bountyhunter wrote:

Teras Kasi are in the cannon watchdogs of the Jedi Council...

and serve on thier own council thats only job is to keep the all powerful jedi in check..

in the cannon TKM are pretty much FS.. but they use it differntly than Jedi do...

I do agree that TKM to fit in the cannon should be almost as points intensive as BH as it should be a super elite profession.. dabblers in TKM and defence stackers are completely unbalacing specially Med line dabblers....

I really think its cool that the devs are using such a little known profession like TKM to be the jedi counter exactly as it was in the books..

but again this should be a special damage from TKM only.... like lightsaber only for TKM only so that stops uber dabblers from making jedi killers with the uber FOTM defence/melee template.

I keep seeing this repeated but I have yet to see anyone actually point to any official text stating this as fact. I'm a TKA and would gladly accept this role if it is canon, I just have yet to see any proof. As one that really would like to see more continuity in this game I would appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction. Everything I have seen in SWG canon about TKA is about 5 paragraphs and none of it relating to keeping Jedi in check.

----
Nothing personal..... it's just business...

RamhornSWG

Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:14 pm

#91

NUMBER 21#

Jedi are not being designed to be the perfect solo character that can defend against all other classes. Jedi are not “scrappers” and by definition, Teras Kasi was developed specifically to fight Jedi at close range.This will be especially true when Jedi are given the ability to block ranged attacks back at their opponents. Melee attacks are something the Jedi should be wary of.

As a non-jedi player, I love this part. Sure I would be tempted to try the Jedi trials in publish 10, but not after reading this.

Basically, I can add fencer to my MTKA over the weekend and have a character that is designed to to fight Jedi at close range.

Be wary Jedi.

Plus itbeats the hell out of months of mindless grinding, BH missions, no armor and stressing about obtaining pearls and crystals.

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