Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Declaring overt
in all actuality (read that RL), when a person joins a faction they are an overt member of that faction. only after time and effort (on their part or someone elses) are they able to become covert and move about freely. How is the Galactic Civil War any different? Overt status should NOT be the problem. However obtaining Covert status should be what is discussed and resolved.
The thought process should be "how the heck do can i become safe again" vice "how do i quickly engage the enemy in battle"
it is a civil war after all which means that it is brother against brother .. easy to be overt .. not so easy to be covert.
Why remove revenge TEF and add this? You're recreating the problem.
You are giving people the capability tohave a completely safe first strike. This should not be possible. Period.
RandomImperialCommandoGuy stands next to me. He's a blue dot on my radar. He /goesovert and BAM!, I'm dead. Had he been a red dot, I would have at least had the opportunity to get a bleed on him before he one-shot killed me 
There HAS to be a short period of time (5 seconds?) where, if you use the /becomeovert command, you are targetable/attackable but cannotintiate attacks. This is an easy solution to elminate abuse. The person then has to choose to /becomeovert in a relatively safe/hidden spot. No walkiong up to someone switching status and having open season.
"Any more given capability will kill any and all PvE GCW in this game."
There's no such thing as PvE GCW. War is war. Would you be complaining if NPCs' AI routines were sufficiently advanced as to make them fight like players? It sounds to me like you want to participate in the GCW only when it's convenient to you. Sorry, but that's not how war works. When you are a member of one of the two sides of a war that is currently waging, you can expect it to come knocking on yoru door any time of day or night. Your convenience is totally irrelevant. If you don't want the inconvenience of war, then don't sign up for a warring faction. Turning a war into a when-it's-convenient type of thing really kills the whole immersion and destroys any semblance of being true to Star Wars.
-Raystonn
We have overt and covert. We need a new state, "overt ready but still covert".
Hear me out... We need to go to a recruiter to become "overt ready but still covert". While in this state you can declare overt by typing /declareOvert at any time. But also while in this state an enemy who out ranks you can attempt to break your cover and cause you to become overt.
This new state would allow ambushes to be attempted while giving opposing overt players who notice the ambush to break their cover and begin attacking before all the enemy forces can move into place.
Perhaps more restriction on how a person can blow another person's cover would allow encourage more people to stay in this middle state and thus allow battles to be more encompasing.
I'm not someone who like's to do much one on one or even small group PvP. But if a battle breaks out in town, I'd love to be able to blow my covert status and join in the fight.
--Drox
So the opposing army gets a BE/Commando/Smug/SL/BH together, and tries to take out a factional base. Person 1 runs in covert to the terminal to delay destruction for 5 minutes...(no one can touch him), declares to become overt from 50m to a recruiter or because he is in a HQ, prevents shutdown during his last breathing moments as he is attacked by 20 people...
Person 2 runs in covert to the terminal to re-delay it for 5 minutes after the opposing army tries to destroy it again. Declares overt and stops shutdown for another 5 minutes.
During this time, person 1 probably has time to run back from the cloning center, or if it's far away, repeat with person 3 and person 4, etc
What you can do to fix this is that an overt has to be declared for 1 minute before being able to prevent a shutdown...
Larathorn wrote:
My opinion, make it so you can declare Overt anywhere, anytime. To become Covert you have to go back to the recruiter and wait an hour. There is no reason that I should have to be within 50m to put on my uniform or flash my military ID and fight for my ideals.
That would let you move in armies of safe people to the location of a fight, and have them all go overt at once and ambush...
-Raph Koster,
Creative Director
Actually, I don't think this would be a problem...the ambush could happen, but then any covert imps could also immediately declare overt and fight back.
However, that aside I have some other suggestions.
1. Allow Covert to be declared anytime, but recruiter must be used to go covert.
2. Change TEF to be an Overt declaration. Thus when you would normally acquire a faction TEF, you now just go overt. i.e. you have been found out, picture is on the holonet, people are actively looking for you...got to get to a faction recruiter to go covert again. This solves part of the TEF exploit. Makes it very simple, too. Makes the GCW more dangerous and involving.
3. Add spy missions.
3.a.Go to this Faction NPC, examine them, return.
3.b.Go to opposing faction, run non-destroy mission for them, return.
3.c.Go to opposing faction, achieve "rank" in faction...
3.d. Go to Opposing Faction Base. Get item from crate. Return. (Similar to rantok sword Jabba theme park mission)
3.e. I think you see where this could go.
4. Make every rank of faction grant a few percent chance to detect covert players...gives ranks some real meat to them. Really high ranking faction members can "root out" spies.
5. If more than 50 players are overt and contain mixed factions in an area, spawn a battle field in the area...allow this to include cities...make the battlefield last until only one faction is present.
Thoughts? Likes/Dislikes?
Secondly....there is no reason to add the 50m command
Your trying to bandaid bigger issues...instead of addressing them.
1 - HQ camping.....there are no FP bonus's tied to rank...there are no attractive FP locations anywhere in the game atm...fix that...and you solve the HQ Camping issue.
2 - Recruiter camping....since the action is stuck in the cities due to the lack of incentives to pvp/hunt elsewhere...this occurs....again....address this issue and you solve the recruiter issue....which frankly isnt an issue (this from a casual but experienced pvp person)
Again ..the game has little content on the GCW front and you've acknowledged this and stated your surprise at the GCW participation. I'm sure you now noticing the decline in that participation and folks discover their is little there for them to do aside from sit in the cities and guerilla raid each other. So come out and just state this....state the issues that are resulting from this lack of focus on the GCW....and state what if anything your going to do about it...resource/time etc on developing the GCW.....the community would do backflips and throw you a party if you did...though I'm sure the perpetual whiners would still give you grief....but the majority of the folks like myself that are here to 'live the saga' would throw you a party. It's the GCW we want developed...we want to be wrapped up to our ears in it....lay the plans and communicate these plans.....we know the current plate is full...but come out and discuss and acknowledge this and put it on the plate for after the big patchs....we are patient...we will be here..just throw us the bone 
Ill_Omen wrote:
aaaaaaarrrgh wrote:
Isn't this PRECISELY the strategy that covert detectors are meant to counteract?
The difference, of course, is that in RL if you spot an ambush, you can fight back. In SWG, if you see a group of coverts waiting to ambush you, your options are to either flee or assault them with your razor wit and harsh language.
Miss anything?
Seeing a bunch of apparent neutrals that you know are Rebels isn't "spotting an ambush," at least not in SWG. That requres a nearby covert scanner, or sending in "bait."
I agree with the poster that says there should be rank-based methods of spotting enemy coverts.
Personally the problem with PvP is TEF.
Simple solution - If you are Overt you can fight - if you are covert you can not PvP. Period.
Instituting a /overt command that would allow people to go overt at any time anywhere would be a possible solution. Only allowing covert status at a recruiter.
A better balance in my own opinion would be to allow coverst to declare at a recuiter or a PC with a higher rank be able to declare PCs of lower rank.
Either make a specific Rank - say Colonel which would also allow Rank to play some sort of important place in the GCW instead of just being a way to store FPs at this point.
Limiting it to 50m would allow for some imbalance as well - It would allow melee characters to close into melee range covert then declare right before attacking.
If any sort of /overt command is instituted there should most likely be a slight delay involved after death to prevent "Zerging" from the cloning centers as it is most commonly known.
I dont like this idea at all Holo. cause it still gives the declarER the chance to impliment a sort of revenge TEF again. if he/she can just walk to within 50m of the recruiter, target her assailant, type /decelareovert, and still get the first shot off. I like the concept, but not the method of implimentation. the act of speaking with the recruiter to declare is important. if you do not force the defeated person to actually target the recruiter and go through a series of commands to go overt, then its no better than a revenge tef. I say the solution should be to allow the recruiter to be conversable from 50m away... thats all fine and dandy by me.
Let me state first, that I havent much experience with pvp in SWG yet.
I like the idea of going overt at will and covert scanners to counteract the "moving covert armies into an area" problem. Or maybe giving high ranking players the ability to uncover coverts.
The problemsI see with this are:
- people who only want to pve
its not funny to just walk into a city, become uncovered and be killed - respawning at cloning center only to get uncovered again
- getting to your corpse (IF corpse recovery would go in again - i hope NOT)
ButI see another problem with the GCW at the moment. Its hard to find the right places !
How about combining all of this ?
Make some pvp Hot-Spots where the above mentioned ruleset is implemented (cities who are under the total control of imperial / rebels / or ruled by total anarchy).
In these Hot-Spots, people can go overt at will and there are methods to uncover coverts (for both sides of course). And you cannot clone there ...
You can avoid them if you arent interested in this ruleset, or you can go into them. But you will definetly find action if you are going to visit them ...
Just an idea ...