Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC4: Path of the Jedi
BaronPwent
Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:59 am
#781
First, the light side and dark side should be vastly different. The path to the jedi desperately needs to be revamped but so to do the professions themselves. As it is, the dark side jedi professions are practically a carbon copy of the light side ones. That is as unimaginative as requiring random professions to unlock the fscs and simply won't do. It would certainly be nice if jedi could begin along the path of the dark side or just be a neutral jedi.
The profession progression for jedi is just far too simplist and restrictive. Forcing a jedi to use a specific type of saber depending on skill level. A jedi should be able to choose which type of saber they use - 1handed, 2handed, polearm, or perhaps even dual. It should not be determined by rank.A jedi's rank should almost be seperate from their skill progression. One does not simply become a jedi master by learning how to use lightsabers and manipulating the force. One becomes recognized as a jedi knight/master after a series of trials and tests that are passed by utilizing knowledge of the force and lightsabers.
Jedi professions should be vastly seperated to allow for a much broader customization. Not all jedi or dark jedi should have exactly the same skills, there should be variation. There could be 4 professions at least dedicated to lightsaber combat - 1handed, 2handed, polearm, dual. At least one profession could be dedicated entirely to crafting jedi items - lightsabers, cloaks, crystals. At least 3 professions could be dedicated to force utilization - neutral powers, light side powers, and dark side powers. Having each profession follow the 77 point total scheme of the basic professions would seem ideal. Such a division of jedi skills would certainly add a much more unique feel from jedi character to jedi character. A jedi could have a basic knowledge of lightsabers but be a master of all the force usage professions, while a second jedi became a master of the1handed lightsaber, neutral force powers, and light side force powers. This is the kind of unique diversity that is truely needed for jedi and to make it far less of a giant xp grind for master.
The jedi crafting profession could have 4 trees such as - lightsaber construction/maintenance, lightsaber/clothing/crystal experimentation, jedi clothing, crystal construction/foraging. This would help make jedi the self sufficient class they should be. I could expand further on dividing and expanding the jedi profession, but I imagine you get the idea.
Now, onto the quests. Light side quests and trials should be far less combat oriented than the dark side. A jedi's lightsaber should be his last resort. Jedi missions/quests/trials should be oriented more toward social and explorative. Such as acting as a moderator/adjucator for negotiation or as a guard/scout.
Dark jedi should most certainly focus on personal gain and power. Combat missions/quests/trials should highlight the focus of the dark side on aggression and dominace. Assassinations, feats of personal strength and focus. Dark jedi should be very action oriented. Jedi missions could also be more puzzle oriented to accent the importants of using wits above brawn.
Neither dark jedi or jedi should be able to receive training in a new skill without first undertaking a quest or trial. Something to demonstrate to their instructor that they are ready and worthy or progressing along their chosen path. The entire jedi experience should be more of a long continual series of quests than a constant xp grind.
Jedi and dark jedi characters should be self sufficient for the most part. They should not have to rely on the non-jedi community for anything - armor, crystals, pearls, resources, clothing. The (dark) jedi should effectively be their own community. The only true interaction between the jedi and non-jedi community should be when a jedi desides to participate in the GCW or when a bounty hunter has successfully tracked them down. A player should not have to use his non-jedi chr to acquire materials and money for his jedi.
The jedi titles should be entirely seperate from the jedi professions. At first a new chr is simply force sensitive and given my suggestion of expanded professions would have nothing but the neutral force powers profession. They would start off without a lightsaber or the ability to craft a lightsaber. They would have to rely on their basic weaponcertifications and such until theyseek out and find a jedi quest npc to become either a light side or dark side initiate. Successfully completing the quest to become an initiate would grant access to the respective force usage profession (light/dark force usage) depending on which side the player had chosen to join. They would also be granted the jedi crafting profession. Now an initiate, the next quest to be undertaken would be constructing a lightsaber. Depending on which lightsaber the player chooses to construct, they would gain one of the 4 jedi combat professions. At this point the jedi is ready to undertake a quest or series of quests to become a padawan. Becoming a padawan would require basic knowledge of one of the combat professions and basic knowledge of force usage. Becoming a full fledged jedi knight would require medium knowledge of both combat and force usage.Becoming a full fledge master would need to have mastered both a combat profession and the respective force usage profession and a great deal of effort to boot. A few other titles could also be added such as jedi guardian which would require high combat skills and jedi counselour which would require high force knowledge skills.
Expanded jedi professions would also allow players to start along the path of the jedi and fall to the dark side, or try to redeem themselves by giving up the dark side. The process of redemtion could involve an arduous series of quests and should certainly not be as simply dropping the profession. Once you join the dark side or the light side, it should be very difficult to change.
Unlocking the FSCS should simply be done after a certain "percentage" of the game has been experienced by the player. Professions, quests, theme parks, badges, participation in the GCWare all things that should be considered. Once a player has "done" nearly everything they should be allowed the final experience of playing as a jedi. Playing though all the professions alone should not unlock the fscs. Yet, mastering only 1, 2, or 3 professions and visiting every poi should not unlock the fscs either. Balancing would have to be done very carefully, but ultimately it would give the casual gamer and the power grinder a more even chance of unlocking their fscs. The power grinder will undoubtable unlock faster, but that is unavoidable. Simply allow the fscs to be unlocked by playing the game and enjoying it - no matter what your play style, be it hardcore or casual.
I could undoubtably go on and on discussing my ideas and opinions on revamping the fscs system as well as the jedi professions, but I've probably said enough for now. Basically, I feel strongly that the jedi professions needed to be divided and expanded for a more unique and diverse experience once a player has unlocked their fscs.
Gairnok
Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:05 am
#782
I would just like an ETA on when this is coming into game so people have an informed idea what to do!
Xtremality
Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:47 am
#783
I would really like to see the quest to becomming a Jedisimilar to the rebel theme park, but you guys should
make it 50 -100 times longer and it should require you to visit every planet. I really enjoyed the rebel theme
park. It was really fun. After every mission, I couldnt wait to complete the next. You should be able to talk to
famous NPC's like Han, Lukeand Jedi that will give you more quest like the one in the Dantooine Cave.
You should also make it fun by giving the player a glimpse of an NPC jedi in action. For example: An NPC
that gives you quests, and after completing those quest's he would reveal that he is a jedi
, and will
, and will show you a few force powers on a creature nearby and some melee action with his lightsaber. After he is
done, he will direct you to the next quest or NPC.
When we do get the FSS, make crafting our lightsaber quest based also.
Make our jedi trainer
Make our jedi trainer tell us where to get our crystals. He should give us diffrent paths to choose. After completing some of our jedi
trainer missions he should reward us with a jedi robe, a robe with a hood possibly, one where we can
choose to wear or not.
biwan: Make it fun.
biwan: Make it fun.
milen
Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:59 am
#784
YAHOO FOR THE QUESTS, HERE ARE THE OUTCOMES-
1) Players including me that have been trying so hard to get jedi, will quit at the fact that they have to remaster everything.
2) All the hardcore gamers will become jedi eventually because they do not care if they waiste all their timeplaying this game- as result this games population of jedi would be 60%
3) Sony Online Entertainment will have to mail everyone trying to get jedi free tubes of Preperation H, because from all the sitting down everyone is gona break out with the worst case of hemmorroids.
------ Yea im not gona be here for ant of that.
Vannton
Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:04 am
#785
In reply to the new jedi system concept i think its a very good and needed idea.As far as ideas i would like to see the addition of the moral choice being a subject of one of the paths or missions. Depending on what you do will strengthen area skills and/or for the light side or dark. Also the idea of the jedi mastertaking on and training students would be a nice tuch. And finaly what type of actions the young jedi uses/takes will determine which jedi title theyearn.
Mraughh
Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:23 am
#786
I would like to see lightsaber block re-coded to block ranged and melee attacks.
Right now lightsaber vs lightsaber combat isnt blocked which goes against everything we've seen inbattles in the movies.
Melee mitigation and defense is needed. Or double the lightsaber toughness lines to help compensate.
Lightsabers need to have their own damage type. Kinetic is just not right. Trying to cut through 90% kinetic armor, melee mitigation 3, melee defense, block/dodge/counterattack is near impossible. Melee > jedi > ranged. 8k damage hit in pve is reduced to 3-400 pvp damage on a TKM with maxxed melee defensewith good kinetic armor.
Force power costs are out of balance and are too much since they are based on 100% pvp damage in the beta days. reduce their costs by 75% also.
Force powers should not be kinetic nor resisted by armor with the current force costs. Even Force Lightning is kinetic damage.
Chieftain1900
Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:27 am
#787
I want it easier to become a Jedi, a time limit should be installed...I've been playing for almost a friggin year and still haven't attained Jedi!..
Meara
Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:14 am
#788
I attempted to read all the other posts to make sure what I have to say has not already been said but there just are too many. Here is my 2-cent (btw-I had almost completed my post when my computer blanked out soif you see a duplicate post I apologise).
. Here is my 2-cent (btw-I had almost completed my post when my computer blanked out soif you see a duplicate post I apologise).Why is the quest to unlock force-sensitvity done with a character that will never be force sensative? I see people posting that your actions should determine the type of Jedi you become (light ordark) but what do the actions of my first character have to do with the type ofsecond character I will have. I agree wholeheartley that onceyou have a force sensative character your actions dictate the path you follow.
My main character is a bounty hunter and for reasons not relevant to this post, she hates Jedi. She chose her career path because of an overwheming desire to track and destroy any force-users, especially Jedi. I am a roleplayer. I take my character in any role playing game I play very seriously. When my bounty hunter is on a job, if her employer wants her to say something cheesy like, "Your services are no longer required" before retiring the mark, then she says it (fellow bounty hunters know what i'm talking about here). I use this as an example of how serious I take the game. My character would have a very difficult time performing any quests that may have a possible outcome of creating (i.e a forcesensitive person)that which she completely deplores.
This is what I propose. Open a second character slot to players for free. That's right...for free. This character would bepotentially force sensitive but notautomatically a Jedi. It would be with this character you would perform the quests/holo grindingto unlock being force sensative and becoming a Jedi with that character. I realize this creates some problems in regards to PvP (being able to play both sides of the fence, so to speak) but you could restrict having a second character to only a few or even only one server. And i know at least 10 players already playing multiple accounts to be able to have multiplecharacterson the same server. I must also admit I was highly disapointed that I can only create one character per server. I know players are concerned about there being an abundance of jedi in the game but I am afraid there is little you can do to stop it. All you can do is slow it down. I forsee the majority of players (at least the power gamers) all having a jedi character in the not too distant future. If you had to do the quests with a brand new character you would first have to master a combat profession before being able to complete the "unlocking" quests which in itself would slow down players in the goal to being a Jedi.
In regards to the actual quests to unlock being force sensitive, I feel that anyone who has mastered any of the elite combat professions should be able to complete them by themselves. This does mean that any master crafters out there would have to either get help to do the questsor master a combat profession. In my opinion ( and I have seen all the movies and read all the books) I think that in the current setting that SWG takes place, obtaining the knowledge to become a force-user would be a dangerous and difficult to say the least. Jedi schools were typically remote and isolated in order to be a better location to have the needed focus and concentration to study the ways of the force without outside distractions. Travelling to and exploring these distant locations and tracking down individuals with the ability to help further the advancement of becoming force sensative would be an adventure that I think Chef Emeril or Image designer Ralph Lauren would not have the skills needed to complete.
In regards to the time required to unlock being force sensitive-I don't care how long it takes as long as I feel I am making forward progress. As previously stated by other posts, please avoid any camping of infrequent spawning npc's as this is only a time sink device and is extremely frustrating for most players. I think if you could tailor each character's quest to be different it would ultimatly be more rewarding as opposed to being able to read in the forums the step-by-step from point A to point B formula to being a Jedi.
Finally, has any thought been devoted to other force using professions? It is known that the Jedi path is not the only path open to force users (the witches of Dathomir for example)
Anyway, as I usually am reader and not a poster, I'll end here. I'll try to post again my thoughts as to what quest ideas I have and I appreciate the ability to speak to the developers.
Farimar_Storm
Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:18 pm
#789
I do not consider the holocron system to be a bad system for becoming a jedi. What i do belive is that the devs need to get rid of the silent holocron. Anyone who has taken the time to master all up to a silent does not want to sit down and have to master all the remaining classes. The only change that i see that needs to be made to the Jedi system is that instead of going silent a Holocron should give a general answer along the lines of say... "Brawler Prof.". Instead of giving the name for the next class it should just give the name of a basic tree and then it should be left up to the player to pick from the advanced classes in the general tree as to which is the final step to opening the players Force Slot. Doing this would bemore convenient for the players who have already taken the time toget to the silentand make jedi more accessable to the players who dont have the time to devoteto masteringeverything, this would also solve the problem of playersgetting to about prof, 15 and deciding its not worth it and moving on to another MMORPG. This change, is all thatI feel is needed. A quest system no matter how you do it will result in players who clearly do not deserve a jedi character becoming a Jedi were as with the holocron system only the more devoted players will recieve the ultimate reward of a Jedi Prof. With the current silent system the game is suffering a loss in the more devoted players deciding the game isnt worth this much work, but with a general answer instead of silent, these same devoted players who would have left the game will decide that they are almost there and persevere.
Darksidian Hayden, Wanderhome, (one of those devoted players whogot to silent and decided that dropping yet another class to try and find one out of 20 is not worth it)
oredude
Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:25 pm
#790
I apologize in advance if this is not in the correct thread, but here goes, this is for the developers. This may have already been mentioned, perhaps not. I have read that there will be some type of compensation for those people who have had their holos go silent once the new jedi quest system comes online to open our fs slot. I dont know if the method has already been determined to assign compensation for those people who have grinded out 8 professions versus those who have grinded out 25 professions. Personally if i have grinded out 25 professions, I'm neck deep into this grinding option and would hate to have this option taken away. Basically what I'm saying or asking to have happen is that as an option be made available to those ppl that have had their holos go silent, allow those people the option to continue grinding out thier professions under the old system or if they chose let them have the option of going on the new quest system to open up their fs slot. Another thing you could do is limit their choice, you could also make it to where they would be at a decision point where they would have to choose one or the other, but not both. In other words if they gave up their choice to holo grind their way to open fs slot in favor of the quest route, they would never be able toholo grindingroute. Thank You.
K0MMIE
Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:22 pm
#791
IF WE HAVE BEEN SUBSCRIBERS SINCE THE FIRST MONTH GIVE US OUR FS SLOT! AUTOMATICALLY!
Copycat
Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:18 pm
#793
The Jedi skill tree should be outside of your profession like in the movies. If you Sac every thing for pointsyou should be able to become a Jedi faster because of more "devotion" but the trainers should give out Jedi only points (almost like the faction system but not as impersonal?) to be used to buy better missions, skills or jedi items maybe even various clothing schematics jedi have in other games and movies. I mean you can be a jedi tailor 
I mean half this game is based on looking cool anyway.
I mean half this game is based on looking cool anyway.