Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-11: Combat Roles; Ranger
What defines theRanger role in combat?
- In terms of combat, let's think of Rangers as equivalent to Army Rangers. That would suggest the Ranger role would be defined by:
- Recon/Scouting skills: finding the enemy before they find you
- Stealth skills: sneaking up on enemies
- Survival skills:maybe something like Feign Death should be in the Ranger line?
- Combat Support skills: evaluating the enemy's abilities
- Old-school MMORPG 'pulling' skills (something like theEQ line of spells that let youtry and pull a single mob, evenif it has a high Ferocity rating)
What basic combat elements should they possess?
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I agree with other posters in that I don't see Rangers as a combat profession unto themselves. Most of your combat prowess should be determined by your weapon-oriented Profession skills. I only see Ranger as adding some effectivness when hunting creatures.
What offensive abilities?
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Creature To-Hit modfifiers -
More effective (and diverse) traps; usable against PC and NPC targets
What defensive abilities?
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How about some defense modifiers when in the wilderness only? To reflect the Rangers ability to find cover and dodge-about quickly in the wild...
What unique abilities?
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Traps seem like a great way to give Rangers access to some special attacks that can be used in PvP as well as PVE. Why not create a line of traps providing KD, Dizzy, Stun, etc... effects?
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
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Camps are clearly one way to provide an asset to a combat group. Expanding on the current Camp line with ideas such as (1) not having them disappear when in combat (2) providing group camo, perhaps, to all players within the camp (3) adding functionality such as healing BF (at a fractional modifier so that we don't create empty cantinas)? There are many, better, ideas than this in other posts on this board.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Tough call. By definition, almost, Rangers are ideal soloists. They won't have a natural yin/yang relationship with any other Profession.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
- Rangers should be the stealth combatants of SWG. They sneak into your facilities or past your front lines. They gather information on the enemy's location and abilities. They report back to the Squad Leader. And then they hit you on your flank when you never saw it coming.
What defines theRanger role in combat?
Currently not much, we are a support class that requires the use of other professions to do anything remotely related to what we do.
We do get the track ability, which has helped out in GCW PvP, before vehicals, some. Being able to determine the amount of "possible" enemies in the area, and it was good for a time. However now someone can enter the area within seconds and be on a ranger without him knowing, I think this is wrong.
Rangers should be aware of their surroundings, atuned to what is happening. There should not be much that eludes a Master. When looking at different sources all point to rangers being great combatents, skilled warriors, and most importantly, survivalists. SWGs ranger I would compare best to a Tolkien Ranger(not bad, I love LotR), however even their Rangers are great combatents.
In modern day, Rangers are recon and special forces usually. Most important thing with a ranger, is that they decide their fights, they fight on their own terms, because they being stealthy can see the situation, and act accordingly.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Some kind of stealth, that works on everything, from creatures, NPCs and even players. Now ofcourse for balance or whatever else, it might be different for each of those, but there needs to be something for each, expecially against Players, which would ofcourse help our role in GCW.
What offensive abilities?
Being able to see things first, they should gain first strike types of abilities, things that catch the unaware off guard, and usually its their downfall. This would fall into being able to sneak in close, but also a special shot/hit that deals massive damage to a person/npc/creature. Alot like a backstab ability known in EQ or other games. Also they are opportunist, and when they see an opening, or whatever, they can take advantage when the see something.
What defensive abilities?
The first line of defense for a Ranger is his stealth. To be unkown is to be undefeatable. Second is that when in the outdoors they have the advantage and know how to be agile with their surroundings. Third is that they can get out of a fight when they want to, this is where our speed should come in, basically we can run away fast, and lose them too, even if they are on a vehical, once out of site, a ranger is gone.
What unique abilities?
Tracking is by far our most defining ability currently, but with vehicals, current spawn system, and alot of other factors, it is quickly becoming less and less great.
Alot of great things have come into here, for one I believe that expanding the areatrack is a good start, mostly for our GCW activity. I would like the track to be better by adding a refreash button, or maybe even being able to keep track of everything right there constantly while remaining still, this would help greatly as a kind of watcher for someone coming or activity in the area, plus we could tell if someone is riding if they are moving faster.
Alot great stuff has been said for camps, i believe this has been covered pretty good, but just like to add on this. Ranger can survive anywhere, and for a long time too. I am interested in upper ranger camps providing services that could mean that a ranger would not have to come back very often to "civilization"'
Being able to know ones enviroment is largely a personally skill. For example I live on Lok, with my PA and city. Because of this, I know it really well, this is a personal skill, but still some other things would be usefull. Maybe the ability to keep track of resource shifts, even to the point of(as getting better skilled) predicting the when and what the next shift will be(say that a ranger notices a snake shed its skin, he is predicting a shift for its hides, and by conditions of the planet he thinks it will be for the better).
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Stealth ofcourse(as tho I havent made that obvious lol). Also group terrain mods, with some ability to control creatures actions, so that the group can take it out better. That mostly is more for creatures as I think SLs should cover more with NPCs and PCs, however I would like alot of close work between the two, as they are obviously closely related. Better harvest abilities, even more so than already, perhaps in special groups could be the soul reciever for the resources, if a SL is the leader and allows.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Rangers should be able to survive on their own, so largely dependent in the matter, BUT just because they can doesn't mean they must. Camps that use different components(but they need to be really good camps). I already outlined work for Ranger and SL working together, such as a group harvest going to a Ranger, or help to channel other ranger abilities to the group through the SL. We already help alot with tracking Rangers, and I think thats good, BHs should be able to do somethings, but jedi are a hard task, and should require lots of player interaction.
Also our harvesting ability. Right now its great that scouts can do what they can, and that should not change, but I believe that rangers should provide the bulk of resources. Alot of times with other resouces they are harvested to death to get as much before another shift, well being able to determine when and what is coming next can prepare us, plus, we should be like that, able to get lots and lots of those resouces
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Stealth ofcourse, and opportunistic attacks, taking advantage of weakness in an opponent. Possibly specific HAM damage but I am looking for more than just that here. We should still depend on a combat profession, but we should get additions to Ranger to help us with it, but we should be able to have just about any combat profession and work good with it.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Recon, stealth, and first strike. Also being able to do things with out having to fight. A ranger can sneak his way past defenses, or do tasks that most other would have to fight past, sometime even needing large groups to do so, while a ranger just slips by. Rangers know the land, no one can hide from a master ranger, but he can hide from everything, giving him the choices, and putting them on the spot.
Also the ability to collect data is very important. I would like to see ranger maybe place factional items, structure such as recon posts or anything that can be used in such a way. The Scout Troopers on Endor I believe were repairing/placing somthing of this sort.
Possibly a security network that will alert people on an alert list that opposing faction has crossed it, these should come in temporary form, and in a form that could last longer with proper upkeep from a ranger. I wouldn't mind having a kind of hidden covert detector aswell.
I would like to see scout trooper armor available, not just to scouts/ranger but anyone, it just strikes me tho that rangers of the Empire would probably support the Emperor as a Scout Trooper.
While I agree Rangers should do great against creatures, I believe that they should work alot into PvP, GCW much like modern Army Rangers do.
I have lots of good ideas and may come back to this, but if you have time I would suggest looking over the Ranger Forums, we have a fairly loyal community that have come up with some great stuff that may never make it here.
Thanks alot if you took the time to read all this, and I hope that our ideas will help you create a better SWGs.
What defines theRanger role in combat?
At present, the only defining role of the Ranger in combat seems to be against animals. They are defined bya combat bonus in rangedand the ability to utilize traps. Again, these combat benefits only apply to animals (and, one would assume, pets).
Rangers also have the rescue ability, which allows them to get an enemy to focus an attack on them instead of their current target. Very useful.
Also, Rangers ideally have the greatest capacity to set the stage for the attack in PvP and PvE combat. Using tracking and camouflage, they can get into position (again, ideally) without creatures, NPCs, or PCs being aware of their presence and initiate the attack on their terms.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
The Ranger benefit against animals and pets seems adequate. It's unclear to me whether these benefits apply to Pets but, if they don't, then they definitely should.
Rangers should be able to utilize their traps against NPCs and PCs or, perhaps, be given other traps that are specifically designed for use against sentients.
What offensive abilities?
The use of traps on NPCs and PCs.
Allow Rangers to use specials while on creature mounts.
What defensive abilities?
Current defense abilities seem adequate, although an additional "Creature Defense Bonus" might prove useful.
Rescue should be able to be used on PCs, re-targeting them automatically onto the Ranger instead of the intended target. They can, of course, re-target back to their intended objective.
The conceal ability should (if it doesn't already) camouflage a Ranger from turrets and other automated weaponry as well as against creatures. Perhaps there could be some sort of "infrared detector" available as a faction item that would detect Rangers, but it would at least mean that each faction would have to plan out the possibilities of assault more thoroughly to protect against it.
What unique abilities?
The current unique abilities seem adequate, they should just be revamped to make them a bit more useful.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Rangers should vastly improve the effectiveness of staging a surprise attack, by conferring their camouflage onto others. In group combat, they should be able to use the rescue ability on both PCs and NPCs to help their groupmates.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
At present, the major benefit of being a Ranger seems to be that they can find the high-level prey easily and, thus, gather resources to sell to the crafting professions that need a specific type of resource or creature loot item.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
A Ranger should provide a marked benefit to a group when they are far from a base or supplies. Higher level camps should be much more useful, perhaps even with turrets and things as optional add-ons.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Their role should be that of scout troops and first-strike attackers, softening up the targets for the rest of the attack force. They should be hated and feared, because they can be anywhere and you wouldn't even know it. They're a cross between a crafter class and a combat class and, as such, should be among the cleverest of warriors and should be treated as such.
What defines theRanger role in combat?
- The ranger Role in combat should be Creature orented.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
- Basic combat should come from another profession.
- Rangers should be by far the best creature hunters in the game.
What offensive abilities?
- creature hit bonuses for both PvP and PvE. This would be added to the creature to hit bonus
What defensive abilities?
- a creature hit saving bonus maybe. But not too important.
What unique abilities?
- Tracking : Sso far handeled well, but Rangers should have a chance at spawning creatures with it (At random. That way you do notget "no tracks in the area" message often.)and/or respawning some of the creaturesin the tracking radius. As an example I was tracking Peko on Naboo for their bone the other day. It took me an hour befor I found any. To tell you the truth it was not fun. All I found were things that have a high spawn rate that I run into anyway. As a master tracker I should be able to hit a planet and within 5-10 minutes find what I am looking for!!!
- Conceal: Should just plain work well enough to make it use the huntingneeded for theresources. I really like the idea of a ghilly (I spelt it wrong) suit.
- Camps: I think the are pretty go the way they are. High level camps should have the ability to heal BF and spawn missions through a working terminal. They should provide a place of rest for group during a hunt so there is no need to return to town. BF healing ablility and a terminalwould certainly give them a big edge over scout camps.
- Traps: just need more and better ones.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
- Creature bonuses for the group.
- Provide a place for the group to rest and heal. Please take insurance off the camps so I can carry them around with me and not make them on the fly!!!
How could/should they interact with other professions?
- Should be the anti-CH
- Butasol be able to work withCHs to track creatures to capture. And for the added srature knowledge.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
- Resource provider for the crafting professions. The harvesting bonuses should be higher. If I am going to give up a whole different profession for Ranger that I should be able to harvest plenty more than a scout.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
- Should be the anti-CH
- Tracking the other faction, and hiding a group from them.
- This is a tuff one as an outdorsman type profession as we are so far, we have not much use to the GCW.
JonnyW wrote:
For all the ppl that say a ranger should not be combat orrientated and just be good at killing animals I suggest telling that to a U.S. Army Ranger and see how long its takes him to whoop your ass
sorry but I can't resist and I have to stray from topic a bit to counter this arguement. I told that to The Ranger from the Yogi cartoons and he shrugged, put his feet up on his desk, and continued reading his newspaper. My point is, there are several types of "rangers" in this world that you can compare to the rangers in SWG. There's the military type, the park type, the wilderness expert type, etc. go find a thesaurus and look up ranger, you'll see all the different versions. The question is, what type of ranger are WE? I think it is evedent that most of us sign on to the survivalist/wilderness expert concept. You want the Army Ranger variety, fine, you are entitled to that view. After all this is role playing, but your arguement is a bit two dimentional and doesn't take into consideration our current skill set and the views of our community as a whole.
http://members.shaw.ca/nraas/ranger/outdoorsman.html
That is the Ranger Outdoorsman concept. Everything on that page pretty much sums up what I'd love to see out of ranger.
I support "The Outdoorsman" proposal by NRaas like others, specifically ideas with concealment.
I believe that a universal(melee and ranged)expertise in stealth combat would make the ranger a unique profession. Currently there is no strong stealthy role in SWG like other rangers, rogues, assassins, etc. in other games, ranger should fit this role. To me stealth combat versus creatures/npcs and possibly players should be paramount. Stealth first, traps second. Anyway, take a look at the proposal, great ideas on all aspects of ranger there.
Thunderheart wrote:
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theRanger role in combat? At the moment I really don't see the Rangers as possessing any real role in combat at least within the realm of PvP. Sure we are supposed to be able to disbale the minefields that enemy players lay out surrounding their territory and I think that's a pretty cool incentive for Rangers to come along on base raids. In PvE we have our bonuses to hit creatures and our ability to hide from said creatures, but I think that our camo should be expanded to hide us from the NPC humanoids as well.
What basic combat elements should they possess? I think that Rangers are due to get some traps that caneffect the humanoid NPCsif we can have a tranquilizer dart that slows down a war gronda we should be able to use that same tranquilizer to an even greater effect against a humanoid. These humanoid traps should work against players and players' petstoo, making us more of an asset in PvP. I would also think that our camo should work so that we appear as a yellow blip on an enemies radar until we attack them. I think it would really help to give us the element of surprize since most players aren't too concerned with some random NPC when fighting other players.
What offensive abilities? As stated before I think that we should be given new traps that work against humanoid NPCs and players as well as those players' pets. Why should a tamed razor cat be immune to the effects of any trap that wouldeffect them were they to be in the wild? Making traps useful against humanoid NPCs, players and pets would be a fantastic addition to the Ranger profession and would make Rangers look more fondly upon the Trapping skill tree.
What defensive abilities? Again make Camo more effective when used against creatures in the wild NPCs and players. Rangers should be able to have the element of suprise on our side since we are the masters of the environment. As an earlier poster stated we should have to be prone for this to work.Making us appear as a yellow blip on anenemy player's radar would be a very useful ability.
What unique abilities? Rangers should be able to apply the bonused camo to other players besides themselves.Other than being able to apply the advanced camo components to other playersI really don't know of what a good "unique" ability a Ranger would and should get.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat? Being able to actually scout out the area ahead would be great. A Ranger would camo himself up and then sneak out to enemy territory and see exactly what they are up against. Again making more of the group appear as insignificant NPCs would be a really great bonus for group combat.
How could/should they interact with other professions? The Ranger camps should be a place for other players to be able to declare their overt status or change from overt to covert if hey wanted to do so. This would require the Ranger who made the campto be overt and would make him more along the lines of a player faction recruiter. Rangers should be able to recieve bonuses from other professions while in these camps. Allow a Squad Leader toequip the camp with a fortification kit so that the camp doesn't become abandoned when the Ranger enters combat. Dancers and Musicians should also be able to heal battle fatigue within the Hig Tech Field Base and apply buffs while in the camp, the same should apply to doctors.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants? A Ranger should become a Squad Leader's best friend. Being able to scout out areas and conceal the group from other players and NPCs would be a real treat.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War? A Ranger should act almost as a Recruiter while within their camp provided that they are overt. Allowing other characters to declare faction affiliation, and such and they should be able to give faction perks at a significantly reduced cost in faction points. Our activities as mine sweepers is cool but should be expanded into other realms, such as being able to avoid covert faction scanners and possibly disable them for the rest of our team.
We desperately need a revised trapping system, I currently only use 2 traps, glow wire, and phecnacine dart (many other master rangers will admit to only using one or two of the traps available, and only using the other traps very occasionally for bigger creatures), both of these traps are available at Master Scout level, a Master Ranger should have trapping skills far in advance of a Master Scout. Traps that work against NPC's (yielding trapping bonus) and other players pets (not yielding a trapping bonus to stop people exploiting trapping exp) would be fantastic.I have a bounty hunter friend and we run his missions together, my tracking comes in really handy, and NPC traps would be great.
Better harvesting would be nice, Rangers should be able to harvest MUCH more BETTER QUALITY resources than anyone else, Master Rangers even better. the radial menu could have: Harvest bone, Harvest Meat, Harvest Hide, Harvest X 3. Harvesting meat, bone or hide should yield a huge amount of that resource for master rangers, Harvest X 3 would yield a percentage amount of each resource dependant upon the size of the creature.
Better creature-to-hit bonus......Rangers study everything about where to place a shot and bring a creature down, I go hunting with Commando's and Bounty hunters and they destroy creatures much faster than me because they're a high level combat class, creature-to-hit bonuis should bring Rangers into line with the higher combat classes, (but only against creatures) we should have the ability to bring down creatures that not even commando's or bounty hunters can, at the end of the day you don't see rangers really kicking-butt in PVP or able to take bounty missions themselves do you? why should we be second-best to those guys against creatures? it's supposed to be one of our specialities.
There's so much more i could say but these are the factors which concern me most......
Thanks for reading
Spoff Darko
Master Ranger
Farstar Europe