Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-3: Combat Roles; Carbineer
What defines theCarbineerrole in combat?
What basic combat elements should they possess?
The tasks should be to inflict status changes, keep things up or down, and spamming. The game implies they are using some kind of automatic weapon, so they should be spamming their specials quickly. This would also mean the profession would have special move reductions.
They should be geared to fighitng multiple enemies thus having alot of AOE attacks. However their guns should be low damage but be fast, since they are there not to cause damage but rather keep the enemies at bay while the powerful rifleman or the fast pistoleer knock off their high amounts of damage.
What offensive abilities?
Area affect attacks--status changes, posture changes, knock downs.
What defensive abilities?
High defense vrs. ranged since they will be out in the front lines wreaking havoc and preventing they enemy from taking out their damagers.
What unique abilities?
I think giving them the ranged knockdowns and area affect for ranged should be given to them.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
They should be the frontline people keeping people away from those that are taking out the enemies. THus they are the "protectors" of ranged jobs.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
They shouldnt be the damage dealers of the professions, and interact by giving the skill to keep yourself defended.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
His high ranged defense would cut back on healing being directed at him since he is the protector. Rather he should depend on other jobs to some extent to destroy the enemies. If you crossed him with a rifleman you could spam your special, swap to your rifle adn cause major damage, and when teh special wears off you swap back to your carbine, spam it again, and swap back to doing damage.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Front-Liners keeping the enemy away while the damagers pick them off one by one, so they should be taking the meanest blows.
*ADDED QUESTIONS**
How do you define their weapons?
An automatic weaponwith reduceddamage a tick, but can fire fast like a pistol.
What specialmods should they receive? What should their mods focus on?
Special--Reduced special move cost.
Reduced ranged damage, speed, moderate accuracy.
What should their mods notfocus on?
Damage
HighGround wrote:
How about fixing /chargeShot1? If you are hit 10 times by chargeshot1 in 10 seconds you will have been knocked down 10 times. This is the most widely spammed special in pvp by BH/Carbiniers. Its supposed to fall under the 15 second timer rule, but it doesn't. Each time u get hit by chargeshot1, u fall down and then stand up. The carbinier gets a message saying your attack failed to change your targets posture when infact it does. This works on mobs to. Just get a fast carbine and /chargeShot1 all the way.
Meleevs Chargeshot1 spammer = melee never getting close enough to do anything.
This needs fixed ASAP.
If anything a carbineer should be able to spray a crowd and do *more* knockdowns and posture changes across the board.
The real weakness is how few crowds you see in PvP. The SWG vision of a carbine is apparently in line with a squad assault type weapon. You don't fight a guy with a .50 cal machine gun one on one and for God's sake you don't try to charge him with a melee weapon, you will die.
Whether the squad assault approach is accurate is debateable but meleers shouldn't be expecting to take on any ranged combatants unless they can dodge every bullet and close the gap between volleys. This would be possible in a large-scale battle with many more targets on the field but that just doesn't happen in the current PvP play.
What defines theCarbineerrole in combat?
-Above all I see Carbineers as the tanking class of SWG.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
-Carbineers should be able to take alot of hits and dish out average damage quickly and consistantly.
-Carbineer specials should be cheap and frequent, but not always effective.
-Most perks to a carbineer should be innate and automatic, with a few specials. This will allow them to concentrate on tanking more.
What offensive abilities?
-PvE they need to be able to generate a lot of hate so they can distract and tank effectively.
-PvP they should be very distracting, causing posture changes, and aiming problems, or panic.
What defensive abilities?
-They should beextremely resistant to special attacks and have very high defense vs. modifiersbut have low or even penalty overall defense modifiers relyingheavily on armor/shields for protection and a combat medic for heals.
What unique abilities?
-Theability to generate extreme amounts of hate in PvE through normal attacks.
-Fast/Consistant, but average damage through normal attacks.
-Extremely resistant to specials and very effecient defense vs modifiers.
-Low or penalty ranged and melee defense, relying on armor heavily.
-Innate armor peircing that stacks with other armor peircing. such as you have a carbine that has medium armor peircing, when you attain this skill it would then be high armor peircing. There would be nothing higher than High armor peircing.
-Shrug off blows. The ability to take a blow that would incapacitate him or her and direct 90% of it to a secondary attribute as a wound.
-Mental locomotive. When mind pool reaches 10% or less. 99% of allDoT damage is added to a secondary skill as a wound.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
-Tank ability
How could/should they interact with other professions?
-Combat medic with 4 or more carbineer could result in increased HAMregeneration
-Squad Leader with 4 or more carbineer could result in significantly improved counterattacks
-10 or more carbineer(only) could result in a 100% chanceof specials landing on target
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
-The carbineer should need to group with a Combat Medic andSquad leader in order to take full effect of his skills or survivw prolonged fights in PvE or PvP.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
-I am partial to the Empire so these may be a bit baised but possibly useable by both factions.
-Carbineers effectively are patrolmen so they should recieve patrolmen like abilities/perks.
-If the carbineer is Overt and in full uniform he should gain the ability to check others for contraband every10 minutes. Example: You use the radial "check for contraband" on Joe Blow he has some spice and is fined, you receive some faction.
-If the carbineer is overt and in full uniform he should be able to do a delayed faction scan on any blue dot every 10 minutes. Example: You use the radial and select check identification. The person you scanned will be informed he was just scanned. After five minutes if he was a rebel, he will be flagged and attackable or if he was neutral nothing happens andafter five minutes both you and the person you scanned get a message that he passed. "Move along, citizen."
-If the carbineer is overt and in full uniform and is killed in a city (player or static) by the opposing faction he has 5 minutes after cloning to reach a raid siren. Raid siren stations could be all over the cities. After activating the siren (whch might sound like an air raid siren) Imperials are given a system message that there is a overt member of the opposite faction. Also NPC patrols would be very very thick (possibly a few AT-ST and dark troopers) and faction scanning and contra band checking would be 100% for 10 minutes.
-In addition when a player city siren is activated all citizens are automatically emailed somthing like the following: Player %TT has activated the raid siren in your city on %Date %Time!
That is about it. One thing about the Raid siren. As a nice touch it would be reallyengrossing to be able to hear it from great distance away and might actually bring in some backup in the form of other PCs
What defines theCarbineerrole in combat?
To me, the carbineer is the regular soldier of imperial/rebel army. He isn't a sniper like the rifleman, but he isn't a fast shooting soldier like the pistoller. The carbineer is the base of any army, without him nothing could be done, but he's only fully efficient in groups. The carbineer is a base shooter with group abilities such as Crowd Control and Debuffs (stun, dizzy, blind, bleed, KD, posture down, and so on ...).
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Better ranged defense, a large pannel of really different carbines, single powerfull specials and area effect fast specials, better accuracy.
What offensive abilities?
Crowd Control & Debuffs are offensive and defensive abilities that carbineers should posses. To be effective in little raid groups they should have single target KD/Blind/Stun/Bleed/Snare, and in larger fights, area effect KD/Snare/Blind, cone based like the ones they already have (wich don't work) but with a larged cone that can be as usefull at 10m than at 50m.
What defensive abilities?
Crowd Control & Debuffs are offensive and defensive abilities that carbineers should posses. To be effective in little raid groups they should have single target KD/Blind/Stun/Bleed/Snare, and in larger fights, area effect KD/Snare/Blind, cone based like the ones they already have (wich don't work) but with a larged cone that can be as usefull at 10m than at 50m.
What unique abilities?
As Crowd Controlers, Carbineers should be the only profession to possess AE KD and AE Snare specials.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Crowd Control specials that work are already great advantages in group combat.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Carbineers should be greatly directed by Squad Leaders special abilities (target, target pool , and so on ...), have their weapons crafted by crafters, sing battle songs teached by entertainers to help in combat, and so on ...
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Carbineers stay behind melee fighters, they debuff ennemies to help melee & other ranged fighters in fight. But debuffs should really make a difference. By using Crowd Control specials, carbineers are also very usefull guardians, they are able to protect medics and other ranged fighters efficiently.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Carbineers are the base of any army, their role in the GCW is to fight.
I like alot of the previous comments already made, so i won't be redundant, but one thing i feel is missing that is present in the SW universe based on movies is books is the kind of carbines and of voleey fire, both ideas listed below.Here is my idea of a carbine that i think makes sense:
Assault Carbine- exactly what a carbine is, an assault weapon, which seems to lack in this game, where pistol is more of the assault weap
spd- should have a decent speed, fast fire, like a machine gun, so an ave spd of like 2.0 (or slower, depending on the dmg idea).
dmg- mid to high dmg that is fairly consistent, like an ave of 120-250 (i personally find it absurd that the ave pistol does more dmg than the ave carbine. This should also shoot off a volley of shots per round of fire, each shot in the volley being able to do dmg, instead of just one lump sum of dmg. With this in mind, maybe make the carbine slwoer, like an ave of a 4.0 spd. This however makes alot of sense in terms of what a carbine should do and be.
ham- in general hams are too high on carbines, and everyone knows it. this should be low to mid range (like 20's to 40's)
Accuracy- here is the drawback though. far range should be bad, since it is a machine gun (less accurate at range), gets better at mid range, but highly effective at close range (honestly, how do you miss with a machine gun point blank). The drawback however to make up for the high spd and dmg would be a negative accuracy modifier. When a machine gun spits off rounds, it fires fast and goes through many rounds in short time, but is far less accurate where only a few of the rounds actually hit. This also makes up for the multiple round volley. So that the first blast of the volley has the highest accuracy, and it gets much worse from there.
I know many people will say this is unblanced, and it might be, not sure, but it makes logical sense in the terms of what the carbine is suppose to be. I have no idea of how such a gun could be implemented or designed, but to me it sounds more like the standard type of weapon a carbineer would use, unlike the slow and low dmg carbines currently available. The only ranged profs that should do more dmg is heavy weapon profs and rifles (ie, rifles, llc's, flamethrowers, rocket launchers, etc., but pistols should not on average be doing more dmg than a carbine on average, it just doesn't make sense)
What defines the Carbineer role in combat?
The ability to use weapons that would be classified as uncommon... most combat professions utilize laser (pistol rifle) carbines can be anything such as slug throwers, acid guns, high heat weapons, poison guns etc. Mind you, this should not be as high end as the weapons commandos and the like have, but different attribute hitters... Best example, who else but a carbineer can take down a person's action pool with leg shots.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
The ability to shoot multiple targets at once in a suppressive role, the ability to provide powerful bleeds to individuals, most notably in action stats... but in the case of slugthrower weapons also to health stats.
What offensive abilities?
Pretty much the same as now... but with a greater variety of weapons at hand to do the job... more diverse TYPES of weapons with greater bleed chances. If someone gets attacked by a carbineer they should know it because only a carbineer can hit you with an acid gun that starts to eat at your action pool, or perhaps even provide movement penalties the same way traps do to animals.
What defensive abilities?
Defense against melee, primarily... since a carbine shoots projectiles, it can more accurately debilitate a target's ability to attack using melee abilities. All the time I see TK artists who stil kick and fight after being dealt a Legshot from a good carbineer... this should not be the case. carbines may not be able to defend against a sniper at long range, but should effectively be able to take out a pistoleer before they can get into their ideal range, and definitely should be able to affect melee fighters. Make the Carbineer a Melee killer!!
What unique abilities?
Specialized light weapons with greater stat affecting capabilities... more cone attacks, more concentrated individual attacks. If I set up in a poisition and shoot a single target with actionshot then leg shot... I expect that target to either be bleeding and having difficulty running toward me, or knocked down due to the affect of their legs being taken out from under them.
I'd also suggest, weaponwise, a stun gun of sorts... firing stun pellets... for 10-15 second delays.. .thus giving the opportunity for other party members to attack. it might be unfair to have this be an area attack weapon, so I'd suggest individual attack for now.
A Carbineer with Cm should also be able to use a gas gun... releasing poison gas in an area effect (require that the attacker needs to wear a gas mask in order to not get affected himself if firing less than ideal range.) Make it similar to the thrown poison, but in the form of a weapon projectile. If you are NOT a CM and carbineer you need to FIND a CM to craft you poisons that you can drag onto your gun (up to three at a time... one shot then automatic peace... then player will fire again delay of about 15-20 seconds between firings..) This should be a greater range than a CM can throw... after all it's being flung by a weapon.
I could also envision a trap gun, which works like casting traps on animals, only it will work on humans too. The result is a 30-60 second slowdown of the movement of that target, who should be able to wriggle out of it eventually, if they haven't been killed by my rifleman yet.
Another bold idea... A rapelling gun... complete with rope for assaults in cities and so on. Since with publish 7 we can now move straight up... why not allow us to be able to scale walls as well?
Bottom line... there needs to be more VARIETY as a carbineer, as far as weapon choice goes. WE are primarily non laser, and while we can never use a flamethrower or a lighting cannon, we can have a lot of other unconventional warfare weapons to make our class stand out as a jack of all trades.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
The carbineer is primarily a support role... with all this armor that can protect against glancing laser shots, carbineers should have the ability to weaken the armor for other abilities, or to perforate a target making it easier for a pistoleer to destroy the target, or a rifleman to shoot from range and deathblow. I do not think carbineers should be able to deathblow, but they should be able to SIGNIFICANTLY soften up a target without too much penalty to themselves. Right now the running joke is "I can kill myself with a carbine quicker than I can kill you!"
How could/should they interact with other professions?
A Combat Medic with Carbineer should be feared... not only can we perforate you with slugs, acid, heat or other things, (I suggest shrapnel as well or grenade launchers) but then a CM with such a skill should then be able to have an increased damage rate on poisons/diseases thrown after compromising a target's armor.
Carbineer and Rifleman should be deadly... weaken the pools with dedicated shots, hamper their ability to move, then fall back and deal the ranged DB.
Carbineer and Pistol should be the base killer's special (at least in PvE) Carbine weakens the structure, and could very well kill it were it not for the high damage (and short fire times)that can be dealt by a pistoleer with a good gun. Both get really good xp.
Carbineer and Scout... hunter's dream... craft your traps, fix them to your trap gun and go for it... trap em, leg shot em to affect their movement even more, then blast away! Now you can reap the spoils of a good harvest.
Pretty much any scenario involving a profession that could use a projectile weapon to aid their mission, is where a carbineer would fit in. We are the projectile specialists! (Hell how about a nail gun too! lol ok now I am being silly)
While some may see carbineer as a throwback... not using lasers and such, the merits should be where laser can be deflected, a high velocity projectile cannot.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Carbineer NEEDS CM and Doctors. As for my above idea with the gas gun, without a CM to craft the poison to ADD to your gun (just like adding powerups) you got a dead gun. Since the HAM cost is so high on really good carbines, we need doctors to heal and buff us in order to use the high end carbines effectively. (Think about it this way... if you were using an M-16, with the recoil that has... how long till your arms get tired firing the thing?)
Also, since Carbineers cannot deathblow at range, we still need Riflemen. We can soften up a target and add multiple bleeds etc... but to killum quick we need a Pistoleer. Otherwise it takes a little longer to destroy a target. Not to mention a pistoleer can shoot quick... while we are still loading.
And of course since our weapons deal a different sort of damage, the Smuggler could still slice our weapons for higher damage in the area of expertise, or faster speeds... since a lot of the unconventional weapons I suggest here would take longer times between shots.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Carbineers for the Empire means you have a way to crowd control people. Got a riot in Bestine... get your carbineer trained Stormies out and gas em with a knockdown gas (riot gas)... they'll get the hint. Insurgents at your door? Call on your CM to give you some poisons and you go on the roof and blast said projectiles at em... pretty soon they'll run screaming. Base defense- You got rebels at your door? fire a C-22 charged rocket propelled grenade at em for area effect... if they don't back off, then you better bleed shot them into submission, or suppression fire them while the pistoleers and riflemen take care of the details.
Same goes for the Rebels... want to take a base quick? gas shot the stormies inside (even though their armor is supposed to be immune to such attacks), while gassed, give em a couple leg shots for bleeds, go about your business quickly then fall back, allowing the struggling defenders time to whimper "help base under attack" before it goes up in smoke.
Jabba says take out those Valerian thugs? plop a Glop grenade on your carbine and have at it! (but you better have a pretty good plan for getting out of there afterwards.)
Just my 2 cents... as a Carbineer/Combat medic.
MSgt. Druu Scandana
Sanctuary City, Naboo, Naritus
Role in combat should be like a soldier in an army.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Be able to lay down covering fire, do substantial damage, be able to be hit a few times and be in the middle of the firefight.
What offensive abilities?
Should be able to do pretty decent damage; quite bit more than a pistol and a little less than a rifle. Also they should be very fast, as fast or faster than a pistol because if you think of a soldiers weapon, it is most likely auto. Most pistols on the other hand are semi. So a carbine should be able to fire faster than a pistol making it the fastest ranged weapon in the game.
What defensive abilities?
Since they are made for a firefight, the carbineer needs some toughness to stay in battle and some average knockdown defense.
What unique abilities?
Be able to lay down suppresion fire and be able to stop a enemy in its tracks. Be able to fire in fast bursts and hit an enemy with precision; but not as accurate as a rifleman. And have some of the most damaging shots in the game.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Like i said before the role is much like a soldiers so it should have good group working abilities (supression fire, area kd, etc..) and be able to take out almost anything with a few more cabrineers.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Should be able to work alone and also help or be helped by a group with medics(pretty bad HAM cost; lose around 300 with kd, also be able to take hits for the team and be able to give them fire support where they need it.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Need rifleman to pick off people from a distance while carbineers make the approach to a good position/ range.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
They should be the heart of the fighting force
Tobbi Dala
Starsider
BH: 2/4/2/4
Carbineer: 4/3/0/0