Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-9: Combat Roles; Pikeman
CandiDance
Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:02 pm
#66
Pikeman?
You want input on pikeman?
Fine, my holo said I had to become a pikeman(!). I have been grinding this for a number of days/weeks now.
KILL THIS PROFESSION OFF.
Unless, instead of it being the frustrating sloth of the combat groups it is now, make it a cross between melee and ranged combat. Have it start off as old fashion polearm and then graduate to the use ofadvanced craftedpolearm that shoots stuff and it becomes a ranged (short range like up to 30 meters) combat class that excells in hand to hand and does horrific dmage at pistol ranges.
Travixius
Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:58 am
#68
BossJawa
I would have to totally disagree with that. Mounted combat is so un-needed. Not to mention the amound of bugs it would bring and a great way for people to Kite and grief
Syrillius
Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:55 pm
#69
I think the most important aspect of a weapon with superior range is, to keep the oppinent from attacking you.
So thats what i think the pikeman should be:
Damage:heavy (but not as good as heavy swordsman)
speed:Medium (actually as slow as heavy swordsman)
Defense:Worst off all melee fighters but a good defense against knockdown.
Specialattack: Damaging attack, that delays the enemys next attack. Polearmhit1 should delay the enemys next meleeattack for 0.3 sec;Poleramhit2 for 0.6 sec and polearmhit3 for 1 sec. The dely should have a cooldown of 2 sec after its been used.
I think the delaysystem is a good thing to make the pikeman unique as a meleefighter.......
So thats what i think the pikeman should be:
Damage:heavy (but not as good as heavy swordsman)
speed:Medium (actually as slow as heavy swordsman)
Defense:Worst off all melee fighters but a good defense against knockdown.
Specialattack: Damaging attack, that delays the enemys next attack. Polearmhit1 should delay the enemys next meleeattack for 0.3 sec;Poleramhit2 for 0.6 sec and polearmhit3 for 1 sec. The dely should have a cooldown of 2 sec after its been used.
I think the delaysystem is a good thing to make the pikeman unique as a meleefighter.......
TalothFetta
Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:16 pm
#71
I am only going to say one thing... Defences should definately stack. It would be like knowing several forms of Karate fighting. Or atleast give some sort of bonuses for maxing out melee prefessions.
FyreKrotch
Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:50 pm
#72
A decent idea for pikeman.
As someone mentioned earlier in the posts (i cant remember who cause thats a lot of reading) - the Pikeman skill tree should be something like Commando or Bounty Hunter. The weapons of a pikeman are truely and completely different and therefor should each have their own branch of the tree for improving their effectiveness. This should also be a change for a Swordsman (whom uses a big hammer?).
Primary role of a pikeman:
Pikeman as everyone have stated "are the front line". This is not always true, as someone also mentioned Neo in Matrix Reloaded. The fight seen there was some of the best I've seen (CGI) ever. The realism in how Neo used a "staff" was great. I've watch many combat things, especially on the Discovery Channel. The bo/staff is a fast weapon -its great at defense, but used offensively (more explaination below). With the difference in the weapons we currently have, different strategies are a must. Pikeman should definately be "crowd control". The range should be higher than the other melee professions. The fact, as many people have stated, that a lance/staff/etc have two ends used for combat makes a "pikeman" a powerful adversary, especially when doing area attacks.
Offensive abilities:
Depending on which weapon is equipped, the so-called pikeman should be versatile in combat. As mentioned above, the staff is a very fast weapon. If anyone has watched or learn anything about martial arts, its not always about power (its about grace 
). The speed of weapons in martial arts determines a lot of the damage it deals, as well as its defensive techniques. As an offensive combatant, we defense is a must. What i mean is that, in order to be good offensively, you have to be good defensively. The area knock-downs are both defensive and offense, mainly used to "turn the table around" in battle.
). The speed of weapons in martial arts determines a lot of the damage it deals, as well as its defensive techniques. As an offensive combatant, we defense is a must. What i mean is that, in order to be good offensively, you have to be good defensively. The area knock-downs are both defensive and offense, mainly used to "turn the table around" in battle. Lances are a bit different however. They are heavier weapons, therefor slower, but along with heavieness comes velocity. It may start slow, but during the move the weapons speed increases and then inflicts large amounts of damage. Bleeds, Wounds, etc.should be a great improvement to the pikeman class.
Defensive abilities:
Area knock-downs and other area attacks are critical, an area bleed would be super. Id like to think that depending on which weapon is being wielded, the player would have different defensive strategies and bonuses. Such as, a staff (the fast weapon) could grant the player to dodge and counter-attack better than a lance would. In part with that, a lance should be able to block the damage (absorb some much like armor would). There are many problems right now with this line of strategy, such as noted the Knockdown that makes you stand up. This definately needs to be fixed. As with most other responses, id also like to suggest a "pin" type special attack. This is mainly a defensive move, to get your opponent down where he cannot attack. I would consider the pinning move much like a KD + WarCry + immobilisation . There should also be a somewhat low resistance to ranged attackeds from guns. All melee classes should have a low ranged defense due to the fact that you cant really block a bullet or a laser.
Special Abilities:
Area attacks could be improved. A "pin" move as stated above. The possibility of some sort of charge or something to hit the opponent that is trying to run away. However, that is what Lunge is for . Some type of delaying or disarming special would be nice as well.
. Some type of delaying or disarming special would be nice as well.Group combat:
A pikeman in a group is like having meat with your vegetables for dinner. There should definately be benefits for working in a group with other pikeman, such as a special melee bonus and higher blocking/dodging chances. A pikeman is definately a "tank" and should have an advantage as one. Many professions rely on pets or (currently) TKMs. Id also have to agree with someone that said a barefisted TKA should not be as powerful or better at holding off mobs than someone witha nice 6-foot long metal/wood staff.
Role in GCW:
Currently, no profession has a role in the Galactic Civil War, mainly because there really isnt one. But, once the updates come out to fix the game to what it should have been before it was released, maybe that will change. The role of a pikeman in the GCW should be a few different things. A bunch of people talk about the Emporer's guards and such. Its a good idea, but it contradicts just about everything that people have said a pikeman should be. Defensively, a pikeman would make a good guard. Offensively, the pikeman would be great at running into a group of players or a mob and just tear them up. More defensively, as a role in an army, the pikeman wouldnt necessarily run into battle, it would be more like waiting at the side of the ranged attackers for anyone who tries to come in close, and they they would tear those attackers up.
Overall, a pikeman should be powerful and well-rounded in blocking and dodging. This is a difficult task for the Devs, since you would probably have to completely change the game to fix it. The best option for a fix pikeman is to make the skill tree much like a commando's tree. The different weapons should have different abilities and specials. However, with the differences there should also be basic moves that all pikeman weapons should do, such as the area knockdown and possible area bleeds. Also, overall changes should include a higher speed on the weapons, but reasonable as the weapons apply - lower HAM costs with reasonable costs to Action, but lower on Health and Mind. Better accuracy! In a mob or in the middle of a group of attackers, the accuracy should go up, due to the fact that you are surrounded and it would be hard to not hit someone.
And lastly, again i say fix the knock-down system. It does hurt when someone is knocked-down and then with another posture change move or another knock-down the opponent stands right back up and continues to fight. Dizzy knock-down is currently the only way to make an oppenent stay down for more than one single hit - a pikeman should be able to knock an opponent down for about two seconds before they can get back up, and then be able to repeat the move again after about five seconds (Afterall, that is a pikemans best defensive).
Id also like to state that im not yet a master pikeman, but im working on it. I was originally doing Pikeman for a holocron and as im advancing in it, there are a few things that make it look like a decent profession. New weapons ideas for quests and such are great, that would be awesome. Currently the best weapons for a pikeman can be found on NightSisters as loot, however they are hard to find and people that have them wont sell them for cheap. Its really lame that the weaponsmiths cant make a weapon half as good as the NPCs can drop them as loot, this should really be fixed. Ever seen a NightSister Lance that is 1.2spd with about 600+ max dmg? or a 1.7spd with 1000+max dmg?
~~~~FyreKrotch / Tosik Adoa
~~~~Tull, Rori - Sunrunner
P.S. Sorry if i got a little off topic or went further saying something than needed. And keep up the good work and responses on Pikeman.
atimes
Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:06 am
#73
What defines thePikeman role in combat?
The pikeman shoud specialize in AOE combat. From being able to deal out quick light damage to heavy slow damage the pikeman should excel in AOE combat able to keep multiple enemies engaged at once. The pikeman should also excel at keeping an enemy at bay. In other words like aCarbineers they should be able to control the state of multiple targets.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
They should have the ability to dish out high raw damage to multiple opponets as well as low damage state changes and debuffs to multiple opponents.
What offensive abilities?
Fast weak AOE attacks and Slow powerful AOE attacks. (I mean this by way of weapons. Fast weak weapons and slow powerful weapons)
What defensive abilities?
If the damage output is significant defensive capabilities should be low for the sake of balance. This is also why it's important for a pikeman to be able to keep an enemy at bay. The pikeman should be able to keep an enemy from hitting them since the pikeman's defenses are low.
What unique abilities?
Currently our AOE attacks are redundant. Spin attack and Area attack are totally redundant attacks. Stun hit 2 is a usefull ability since it's an AOE stun. The pikeman should be able to apply a series of states to multiple attacks. Perhaps if spin attack remained AOE damage and Area attack were changed to include a state or debuff of some sort.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Because of a Pikeman's ability to dish out damage to multiple enemies Pikemen should be unparalled in AOE PvE combat.
That's all for now.
Mojowookie
Tue Feb 03, 2004 1:32 am
#74
1.)What role should the profession fill?
2.)What basic combat elements should they possess?
3.)What offensive abilities?
4.)What defensive abilities?
5.)What unique abilities?
6.)Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
2.)What basic combat elements should they possess?
3.)What offensive abilities?
4.)What defensive abilities?
5.)What unique abilities?
6.)Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
1.)Pikeman are the crowd combat gurus.
2.)Pikeman should have many area effect attacks and some pretty good state affects too. They are better on damage than Fencers, but not so well compared to the Heavy Swordsman. They excel in the ability to inflict pain on multiple opponents.
3.)Offensively, their attacks should be above average with a strong advantage in area effect attacks. Include an area effect Intimidate 1, similar to the Wookiee Roar and even an area effect bleed. Pikeman can use their offensive movements in ways that dare enemies to attack them or force an enemy back a short distance. This could equate to an affect similar to the Taunt ability (though less effective than an actual taunt and could be tied to an attack) or the Threaten Shot ability. Since they wield long poles as weapons, they do have a lot of area with which their weapon can be utilized, hence their accuracy should be alot higher than it is, since most of their weapons don't need a specific edge to land a hit. Weapons, like the LVA, will still be fairly inaccurate do to its bladed portion being the primary damage dealer.
4.)Defensively, the pikeman is sorely lacking. Though his weapon is in constant motion, it is doing so in an offensive means and is rather difficult to change directions quickly enough to work much as a defensive tool. Due to this fact, the pikeman has taken many beatings in his training and has learned to endure the punishment dealt to him much more than many brawlers, making Polearm Toughness his key defense. Also the momentum of his weapon turns him in so many ways, that he has become less prone to being dizzy than his other brawler counterparts.
5).Unique abilities: Area of effect Intimidate, Bleed, Taunt and possibly even a Threaten Shot type attack.
6.)In a group, the pikeman will be the one who will taunt the enemies to him and proceed in maintaining "aggro" of large groups of combatants when they want to or force them back as needed. This allows for a single target for healing in large battles instead of many targets needing healing all over the place.
Z-Rifton
Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:44 pm
#75
1.)What role should the profession fill?
I see pikeman as a Crowd Control/Active Defensive Proffession
2.)What basic combat elements should they possess?
2.)What basic combat elements should they possess?
Powerful AE attacks that have a very dangerously large radius compared to the other proffessions (Possibly a move? The longer you use it the more damage it inflicts and the faster it is, but the harder to defend with it)
Area Bleeds was mentioned on the forums which is a cool Idea.
3.)What offensive abilities?
3.)What offensive abilities?
Offensively we should be fairly good, More to hold back HUGE groups/swarms of enemies while the rest of the group does the damage beyond what the pikeman's spining circle of doom does.....
4.)What defensive abilities?
4.)What defensive abilities?
5.)What unique abilities?
6.)Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Z-Rifton
Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:47 pm
#76
.)What role should the profession fill?
I see pikeman as a Crowd Control/Active Defensive Proffession
2.)What basic combat elements should they possess?
2.)What basic combat elements should they possess?
Powerful AE attacks that have a very dangerously large radius compared to the other proffessions (Possibly a move? The longer you use it the more damage it inflicts and the faster it is, but the harder to defend with it)
Area Bleeds was mentioned on the forums which is a cool Idea.
3.)What offensive abilities?
3.)What offensive abilities?
Offensively we should be fairly good, More to hold back HUGE groups/swarms of enemies while the rest of the group does the damage beyond what the pikeman's spining circle of doom does.....Area Bleeds was mentioned already, the only problems might come when a pikeman is facing one on one cause he is slow to attack indvidual targets.
4.)What defensive abilities?
4.)What defensive abilities?
I thought this up a little while ago on the pikeman forum, the Idea of a /guard command, where the pikeman chooses an important target (ex: Doctor) and does a /guard, this in effect makes the target safe f
5.)What unique abilities?
6.)Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
5.)What unique abilities?
6.)Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Z-Rifton
Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:52 pm
#77
.)What role should the profession fill?
I see pikeman as a Crowd Control/Active Defensive Proffession
2.)What basic combat elements should they possess?
2.)What basic combat elements should they possess?
Powerful AE attacks that have a very dangerously large radius compared to the other proffessions (Possibly a move? The longer you use it the more damage it inflicts and the faster it is, but the harder to defend with it)
Area Bleeds was mentioned on the forums which is a cool Idea.
3.)What offensive abilities?
3.)What offensive abilities?
Offensively we should be fairly good, More to hold back HUGE groups/swarms of enemies while the rest of the group does the damage beyond what the pikeman's spining circle of doom does.....Area Bleeds was mentioned already, the only problems might come when a pikeman is facing one on one cause he is slow to attack indvidual targets.
4.)What defensive abilities?
4.)What defensive abilities?
I thought this up a little while ago on the pikeman forum, the Idea of a /guard command, where the pikeman chooses an important target (ex: Doctor) and does a /guard, this in effect makes the target safe from damage as long as the pikeman is alive because the pikeman takes damage for the the target then he also uses his Active Block mods to defend them as well (also it makes him follow the target if he stops following the /guard ends), the pinning move is also a very interesting Idea, where the pikeman actually charges the target into the ground after hes bee Knocked Down, preventing the target from moving.
5.)What unique abilities?
5.)What unique abilities?
Think I summarized it up there ^ but a /standatattention move (much like meditate would be cool)
6.)Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
6.)Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Being able to defend critical targets from damage is invaluable, as is helping keep multiple opponents down for the other players to klill them
AYAHHHH TAB IS THE ENEMY!!!!!!!!!
antares_Kauri
Tue Feb 03, 2004 3:29 pm
#78
Z, you realize you can edit your posts as a Community Veteran now?
antares
master pikeman
antares
master pikeman