Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Understanding the Crafting Experimentation Changes
I'd like to see the calculations to show the old average values versus the new ones. I can understand the need to reduce the experimentation effectiveness to offset the increase in successful experiments, I just don't know if the expected value of the end product will be about the same or not. If I saw the equations that showed that the crafting was at the same level (just more predictable), I'd be happy.
Kane_Firestalker wrote:
less than 24 hours untill the patch and nothing more than a 'reading and reading' response since the weekend? lol
great communication
Well, that is better than the great thundering silence we had before........
Bah!
In anticipation of this mega-nerf, I've stockpiled 10 suits of armor, 12 T-21 rifles, and a pile of misc. other weapons that I might need some day.
Come patch 7, its probably a year before I buy any more weapons or armor. If I do buy weapons or armor, I'll pay the premium for pre-nerf goods.
So the bottom is really going to drop out of the market for post-nerf arms and armor. Eventually the pre-nerf stuff will work its way out of the economy, but I suspect its going to take a year or so. In the mean while, people will pay increasingly high prices for pre-nerf stuff.
If things are as stated, the player economy is about to completely die.
ErantiaPrym wrote:
I'd like to see the calculations to show the old average values versus the new ones. I can understand the need to reduce the experimentation effectiveness to offset the increase in successful experiments, I just don't know if the expected value of the end product will be about the same or not. If I saw the equations that showed that the crafting was at the same level (just more predictable), I'd be happy.
I would like to be able to do that, but I didn't record all of my crafting reults on TC before the change because I didn't know it was coming, so there's no real way (for me) to test the changes unless you happen to get materials that are very close to the same quality on a live server and the Test Center and craft the same items. Unfortunately I don't have the same crafting professions on live and TC.
I was able to see that I made better vehicles and better CDEF guns on TC with the same materials, but it took more points to max them out... I wish I had known beforehand so I could record all of my crafting results so that there would be a direct comparison with the exact same materials.
Chickenlad wrote:I do not want to keep playing a game, investing more time in to the characters I have built, only for them to become continually less powerful. Where is my feeling of achievment then? My feeling of progress?There are so many other ways you could "fix" the economy.Please do not implement these crafting changes.
My feeling exactly. With every patch, I make backward progress. Why play a game when you only get worse with time?
The devs don't seem to have a clue about what makes players happy. The basic equation is "I work hard, I get better gear, I get skills, I can take on tougher stuff". When it goes to "I work hard, my gear gets worse, my skills get worse, stuff I used to roll over is now impossible", the whole thing becomes profoundly unsatisfying.
The only way I can see this nerf being accepted is if you changed every +10 to experimentation giving a point to use to change it to every +5 giving a point to use.
Rasklade wrote:
I have said this since Beta, and will say it again...there is only one way to fix the current economy, and something that would have kept it from becoming sour...two little words...
Schematic Revocation.
It's out there, I said it, /flame on...but in all reality, the only way a "non-master" weaponsmith can compete in this new system, or even the old system,is to provide him a product that only he can manufacture with the best results. As it is right now, only Masters can compete with each other, noone else stands a chance except on the Bazaar Newbie Market.
Require components for higher weapons craftable, and of high quality, by lower level smiths, etc, and some lower tier certification weapons only craftable by them as well. That would solve alot of problems...yes, it would suck for a bit, and I know someone is going to bring up the old argument, "How did I just forget how to make something? That's not possible..."
Well, that would be something to have to deal with in order to correct the market since the holocraze, rare resource spawns, etc...
Surl
This has been beaten with a stick until all that was left was a stain. Absolutely not. Why should there be a payoff for dabbling in crafting. What you would wind up with is a majority of non masters who stop at a specifc point to make a specific item. I found it silly in beta that somehow I am supposed to foregt hwo to make a scout blaster after making 15,000 of them, and I find the idea silly now as well. You don't even get all your experimentation points until master. Mater means exactly that, as a master weapon smith I am a master of making weapons...ie I should be able to make ANY weapon.
Pre-nerf items do mess a lot of things up. I think that if a change is made and it's a nerf, it should go retro on the already-made items or else new players are at a disadvantage. If the change is an improvement, retro isn't so necessary because the new item is better and available to all.
Aerius wrote:
Thanks for clearing some things up, especially regarding how the stats on some craftable items seemed to be capped.
My major concern is about the per-nerf market. Are you going to make it so skematics created before the rebalance/nerf obsolete? Otherwise you'll probably not see your changes taking affect for a long long time, not to mention new people wanting to break into the market will basically have little chance since they will have no pre-nerf skematics.
Thanks everyone for the discussion. A resolution has been posted. Gonna lock up now.
best,
- g
Without reading thru 32 pages, I will throw in my 2 cents...only to be lost in the masses...
The new crafting system WILLNOT produce a greater variety of items, just a whole new set of what is considered to be the best on the server, and a whole new set of prenerf things. You like to think that people were not shopping around before, just you wait. The only people who will be getting all the business after this one is the craters who have those 12 points available to them from skill tapes.
Now if you want variety, why not make smugglers able to choose what they would like to slice, or why not make weaponsmiths be able to choose which type of dmg goes into their weapons (save stun), or how about making all armor able to be crafted into the same stats as composite...
I could go on and on, but why should I have to come up with all the ideas...Time to start earning your money over there guys and gals...Patience is starting to wear thin as you should be able to clearly see.
Only because the systems that were originally implemented to sell items (i.e. bazaar, vendor map) are USELESS for high-end items. Try finding a decent weaponsmith via the planetary map on Sunrunner, I challenge you.
I don't understand how a team of who knows how many dozen developers can be so bloody blind to the fact that they are making the worst mistake in the history of this game. I can't wait to see how much stockpiled weapons and armor cost, and for you guys to come up with some half-assed excuse of why it is happening.
OPEN YOUR EYES and look at the 10+ pages of posts in this thread, or pay someone else to do it. You are making a HUGE mistake.