Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Understanding the Crafting Experimentation Changes
DirkTheDaring wrote:
Tuanga wrote:
Sorry its time consuming enough beta testing on the live servers, without also having to do it on Test Center. Some of us do have lives beyond this game.
Isn't it kind of hard to argue about something you haven't tried out?
Based on the feedback from the Weaponsmith correspondant, the Armorsmith correspondant the Doctor correspondant a 12 point master Weaponsmith on test, a master artisan on Test and various other crafters on TestCenter we can say that based on their complete and fairly exhaustive research and based on their feedback, their findings and their overall total dislike for the new system that we as crafters don't like it.
The only change i would like to see is a simple one. I am a MWS. I am not a very rich one. I mostly make weapons for my guild. I do sell some stuff to other guilds, but usually at a pretty low price compaired to some WS. To me it seem weird to have all experimental things dependent on the same qualities. IE. Cond/OQ for Speed/Damage, Eff, Range, Dur. To me it seems that you could make a wide range of weapons if you changed things up a bit.
Speed/Dam - Cond/OQ
Dur- UT/OQ
Ef - Cond/OQ
Range - SR/UT
This way it will take even more resourse to make a weapon. I may not be able to hit the Dam/speed of one WS, but i have a much better accuracy mod. Now this is for WS. Same could be for AS.
I would also like to know what the Min and Max value of each weapon is. This would be without any enhancements or a slice. But i doubt i will ever get that.
After more forum reading than I really have time for, I must post against the experiment portion of the crafting changes. I'm making as informed a decision as I can based on the data provided by the folks on TC. Why do I believe them? Well, first, I like to think that people altruistic enough to sink their time into testing will also be honest about their results; second, aren't correspondents chosen because they know well their professions and the players in said professions.
Forcing a crafter to put all experiment points into a single line in order to maximize that value is counter to the devs' stated intention of creating more variety in items. As other have pointed out, consumers (myself included) look for maximized damage/resistance/power/efficiency above any other options. It was interesting to learn from the WS and AS that even when they invest experiment points in HAM or durability, they don't get a proportional return compared to investing in damage/resistance. I like the suggestion of better balancing the returns, as well as breaking apart the experimented statistics while increasing the number of experiment points available--that would appear a far more effective approach to creating greater diversity in items.
I haven't found any convincing arguments for how this change will fix the "poor economy"--whatever that may be--and help the upcoming crafters. The well-reasoned arguments all seem to be on the other side: I'm dreading the pre-nerf economy and my upcoming inability to produce a worthy product without spending tens of millions of credits I do not have to get skill tapes. Indeed, I'm in agreement with the folks who point to the Jedi economy and the lack of money sinks as the root cause of inflation (though perhaps inflation is not in the devs' criteria for "poor economy").
I've been playing since July 20, and have been a Master Doctor for not quite a month now. It took me 5 months to do that, and I'll note that MD is the only elite profession I've mastered; for that matter, Medic is the only starting profession I've mastered. I'm supposedly the sort of person that the devs want to support: the casual, long-term gamer. I come to a game to play, to have fun. I've spent a lot of time exploring, chatting, getting to know people. This change feels like a punishment of my play-style. It now appears that I'd be much better off if I'd ground out MD in a week, then devoted myself to cranking out and stockpiling as many products as possible.
As it is if these crafting changes go through, my eight months of careful resource harvesting, (attemptedly) wise trading, and cautious production will not provide anywhere near the benefits I was hoping to achieve. It seems the tortoise has no chance in the race.
Pirotess al'Khairan
Master Doctor, Scylla
"I can guarantee i wont sell any 8 speed carbines with 100 max damage and all points in efficiency, yet you're sugeesting this is what people want. I seriously have doubts that anyone who makes decisions is playing this game."
Sure you will because in 2 months that may be the standard. AND after the combat changes finally all get into place, it may not even be that bad of a weapon.
Two months after this change goes into place, no one except the old schoolers will remember what guns were like pre Pub 7, so it won't be a bother to anyone but the old schoolers that can't roll with changes.
Chris
candleman3 wrote:
The only change i would like to see is a simple one. I am a MWS. I am not a very rich one. I mostly make weapons for my guild. I do sell some stuff to other guilds, but usually at a pretty low price compaired to some WS. To me it seem weird to have all experimental things dependent on the same qualities. IE. Cond/OQ for Speed/Damage, Eff, Range, Dur. To me it seems that you could make a wide range of weapons if you changed things up a bit.
Speed/Dam - Cond/OQ
Dur- UT/OQ
Ef - Cond/OQ
Range - SR/UT
This way it will take even more resourse to make a weapon. I may not be able to hit the Dam/speed of one WS, but i have a much better accuracy mod. Now this is for WS. Same could be for AS.
I would also like to know what the Min and Max value of each weapon is. This would be without any enhancements or a slice. But i doubt i will ever get that.
That may or may not look good on paper, but considering the fact that you only put a small handful of resources into the final build of a weapon, some of which are artifically capped on how high thier stats can be, you would be forced into a situation where all stats were be extremely lower than what they are right now. Not to mention the flat out large number of resources that has to be gathered as is, by seperating each stat to require a different resource requiremtn you basically triple the amount of needed resources for any one item. I think this would make every aspect of crafting, from mining all the way to the finished assembled product more tedius, more time consuming, and at the same time making everythign much lower quality. It's hard enough finding good resources that have decent CON and OQ...let alone finding resources that are high in every stat...thansk but no thanks.
JustG wrote:
That's alot of pages about this!
Thank you everyone for the responses. We will be talking about this tomorrow.
- g
Hmm, its tomorrow....nearing the end of the business day and no word. Disheartening since the patch goes live tomorrow.
This needs to be broken up.
Haiku hits the spot.
G, if you read this, don't take this too seriously. I am just having fun.
------------------------------
my so-so armor
after todays mega patch
is now worth millions
crafting was so fun
everyone cherish'd my work
now I am useless
the economies
are said to be in poor shape
but we are wealthy
resource quality
is more important plumbum
is good for grinding
the crafting system
has to be broken because
we have so much fun
newbies cannot sell
masters control all markets
they must pay their dues
Everyone, join in!
less than 24 hours untill the patch and nothing more than a 'reading and reading' response since the weekend? lol
great communication 
I have a feeling they have all been meeting and discussing this very topic all day...
*chirp chirp* go the crickets...
David
DarthIguana wrote:
Sure you will because in 2 months that may be the standard. AND after the combat changes finally all get into place, it may not even be that bad of a weapon.
Two months after this change goes into place, no one except the old schoolers will remember what guns were like pre Pub 7, so it won't be a bother to anyone but the old schoolers that can't roll with changes.
Chris
I have said this since Beta, and will say it again...there is only one way to fix the current economy, and something that would have kept it from becoming sour...two little words...
Schematic Revocation.
It's out there, I said it, /flame on...but in all reality, the only way a "non-master" weaponsmith can compete in this new system, or even the old system,is to provide him a product that only he can manufacture with the best results. As it is right now, only Masters can compete with each other, noone else stands a chance except on the Bazaar Newbie Market.
Require components for higher weapons craftable, and of high quality, by lower level smiths, etc, and some lower tier certification weapons only craftable by them as well. That would solve alot of problems...yes, it would suck for a bit, and I know someone is going to bring up the old argument, "How did I just forget how to make something? That's not possible..."