Development Cycle Archive

that would be good but won't it lead to people just starting and ending conversations with npc's until they get a FS related response?

Just another from of grinding.

It's gotta be partlyquest based and it's gotta bring some content to the game

And dont standardise it pls.

Im sorry i only started SWG in december and missed out on the excitement of new stuff in the game. Everything i have experienced so far has been known to someone else. Please give us that WOW factor back and try to suprise us.

"Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering, suffering leads to whineing, whineing leads to crying on the forums, crying on the forums leads to the big nerf."

I agree with the mysterious and dynamic sentiment.

To prevent some player frustration at not finding any information, maybe once in a while a clue can be given to players. Not like the holocrons, but something unique to each player. Maybe an NPC will spawn randomly and chat just with you heading you down the Force Sensitive path. Or maybe you get a mysterious in game e-mail message.

An idea for a random spawn would have to do with your characters age. If your character is a week old, you will have a very low chance of this NPC (or whatever) spawning, but as you play the percentage increases. Once you have gotten your first clue, the chances drop back to nearzero again.

At least this way, a player could feel like some progress is being made rather than wondering if they are getting anywhere on unlocking the FS slot.

Maybe others can expand on this.

Thanks,
Coralas Aldaron
Naritus Server

To be perfectly frank on this issue. I love a good mystery, but at the same time I don't have a lot of time to master 29 professions to unlock the holo grinding way. I have mastered my share but am starting to lose interest in the game, I've been playing since last August.

I got to try out a novice padawan on TC-Bria and it was OK, nothing I got real attached to and probably logged onto it about a dozen times. I think my problem with the TC toon was that I hadn't earned it, so I didn't want to really bother with it too much. There was also no reason to grind up any trees since I expected it to get wiped out and would rather put the time and energy into my main toon.

Now getting to my point, I think the path to opening the force on your character needs to be partially time based. I think the age of your character should have a fairly major influence on getting your force sensitivity. I am not suggesting that on your seventh month you unlock, or whatever it will be called from now on. But I think that this time will prove your dedication to the game and your qualification for having one of the more powerful characters in the game. I think that the birthdate (if it ever gets filled in) could play a major role in creating a randomized number of days after that date (or years depending on the way time works in this game). Once that date is passed there could be a handful of things that could be factored in.

I think back to before holocrons and the discussions in the jedi boards about what it would take to unlock. Theories ranged all over the place but I think the ones that really intrigued me had less to do with game play and more to do with spare time spent in the game. Ideas for unlocking included:

1. Catching all the fish in the game.

2. Exploring all the mountains on all the planets.

3. Finding a secret alcove that was player specific, sort of instanced but existing as a small cave that only your player can see and enter.

4. Playing a profession for a specific length of time after mastery.

5. Talking to and completing a specific, yet random, number of NPC quests.

6. Getting a specific, yet random, number of badges that are not POI related.

7. Somehow getting recognition for role playing.

8. Somehow being recognized as a community asset.

9. Getting credit for being at the keyboard in largly AFK professions.

10. Declaring residency near an NPC city and using that city as if it were your home.

11. Somehow getting credit for living the life of a hermit/solo player living off the land.

12. Somehow getting credit for being a good leader (not squad leader) and gathering momentum for PvP and group gameplay.

Holocrons ruined many good players. I think it ruined me. I cannot take up a profession without grinding to master. The thought of empty skill boxes drives me nuts and when I finally hit master I have no problems with just dropping it and not looking back. (Well that's not totally true, i just went back to my favorite template, master sword/doc). But my point with the holocron professions is that it was good in that it made a lot of players find profession they would have never tried. I was a fencer back when it was the 3'd least popular profession according to the astromech stats in early October. That was about the same time that every other holocron read pikeman, image designer, tailor, fencerand chef, also in the bottom 5 professions.

What I am trying to say is that the path to force sensitivity needs to be a strange and mysterious combination of events that no specific player could ever figure out on their own, but at some point they begin to get help.

Start with one NPC that we have to talk to. It would be a different one for every player character in the game. It could be some wandering Miner in some city on some planet that when you talk to, instead of getting a fedex mission he gives the WP of some cave that is just meant for you. As time goes by this NPC may begin to seek you out. Maybe if you find him in the first month he won't even talk to you, but after 3-4 months he does, maybe in 8 months he waves to you when you walk by.

You head to the cave and another NPC is there that makes requests of you. There could be multiple layers to the types of requests and the length and complecity of his requests are based on things you have done in the game so that he does not request you to repeat something you have done. He may suggest that you become an armorsmith but not for mastery, but to craft him a specific item from the armor trees in front if him. He may ask that you seek out and kill a specific target that resists all damage types except electricity or he may ask that you sell a million credits worth of merchandise or specific number of items from a vendor. But that assumes that the path would remoain profession based.

I prefer time based concepts over concepts that you can grind through. You can combine them and suggest that a player must master and remain a specific profession but that could be horrible if they told you to become a chef and you really hated it. But if you put in multiple layers and allow the PC to choose their path to follow then you can offer them to choose whether it is a support prof, crafting prof or combat prof that they must follow. This could then be a segway into the force trees that they will be moved into once they attain their force sensitivity.

I don't think its wise to make a system that grants a jedi to any player that has been in the game for x number of months/years just to "reward them". I for one would not want that because I don't like things I didn't earn myself. I would like some sort of system put in place that creates a community of players that keep professions.

I remember reading about the concepts of this game before beta and read that if you wanted to be a bartender, you could, if you want to be a musician, you could. If you want to fight, there will be many fighting professions. But what they did not say is that they would create a system that created such a momentum to swap professions so often that the community would be largely based on players that quit soon after mastery.

Just for kicks I kept my player friends list with all the original names, many of whom quit for one reason or another (rerolled on my server with a new name, removed the character to play on another server, or left the game). I sent out some emails to ask what they were up to and in the notes I put the profession they were. Out of fifty friends on the list, only three are still the profession they were when I entered them back in the fall. I think this change was largely caused by hologrinding. But It seems that so many great things could come of this game if implemented.

I can picture store fronts for armorsmiths, weaponsmiths, etc in NPC cities. Rented apartments and all kinds of those things that have been discussed over and over. So when you think of the path to jedi, it needs to emcompass every possible aspect of the game.

Jedi was intended to be this character that had to remain out of site, living the life of a hermit, surviving on their own, remaining hidden. As a solo player, that is how I've chosen to play this game. I guess in my own mind I am already a jedi, my scythe is my lightsaber.

So when you ask for possiblities on how the path to force sensitivity can be achieved, make sure you recognize the little things in this game that so many players do not even notice.

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I am sure this has been previously stated, but since there are 32 pages of posts it may be lost in there. I think the process to force sensetivity should be a known factor. If it remains an unknown what we will end up with is the Jedi who unlocked by hologrinding and no others. innitially this is fine, but down the road you are looking at those jedi all mastering the jedi proffs and then the rest of us poor fools who only have the standard profs. End result is you have the fe and very elite jedi and then the rest of us with no chance of bettering ourselves.

Jonesy
Chubicus Cheeto-Fingers
Rev'rend Jim


You're so vain I bet you think this post is about you!

I think that i should be known because i mean we have worked so hard at our professions but there should be some mysterious plot for each person. Also the thing is people mostly like jedi for two things 1. THE LIGHTSABERS, 2. THE FORCE POWERS. We should have each missions a character based one and when you start out you should get a type 1 saber that is weak but you may only use it when on a FS quest.

Well the Poll pretty much proved that the player-base is split on the question of a mysterious path to Jedi. Personally, I find the poll somewhat biased as I noticed many posts in various threads on this topic that said “I want the mysterious path to Force Sensitivity” followed by “Unlocked 6/4/04” in their sig. Just my opinion, but there seems to be a conscious effort by existing Jedi to keep the number of new Jedi down.

Furthermore, I hate to bring up continuity in this subject as most of it has been thrown out the window with Jedi running around in their bright white uniforms, lightsabers a blazin’. I trust that in time the Bounty system will be tweaked to help discourage this. However, on the topic of force sensitivity, those that are sensitive to the force were so at birth. Anakin and Luke being the best examples from the films, they had skills that were innate. Anakin was the only human to race pods and survive; Luke was able to shoot womp rats while moving with the greatest of ease. While I am not suggesting that I login to find several new skill boxes added, I believe that the starting points should be available to all.

Length matters not. It’s not the size of the quest, but the quality of the content. My suggestion is to have the ability to hone my force sensitivity in certain areas be activated by a quest. I personally did not play test center to get a Jedi and was not able to see the force sensitive skill boxes that were the requirements for becoming a Jedi Padawan. I have found skill trees of Combat Prowess, Crafting Mastery, Enhanced Reflexes and Force Progression on one website I frequent listed as novice professions. I can only assume these are the force sensitive skill trees one must master to become a Jedi Padawan, or at least use to augment their current character. If anyone can shed more light on these trees, I will edit my post appropriately.

Looking at these I can easily come up with ideas for mini-quests that would grant a player “novice” in these trees and allow them to progress through all the skills.

Combat Prowess: Requirement – Current Mastery of one Elite Combat profession. I would like to keep this away from the style of the Jedi (camp) trials where you need to hunt (READ: camp) a big creature and take it down. Instead I propose that you must talk with an NPC that is in need of a specific artifact that was stolen from him by some group (Binayre Pirates, Jantas, Tuskens, etc.) and needs a skilled Combatant to retrieve it from their Cave/Stronghold/Base. This could generate some traffic to some of the lesser used POIs. Also, there could be a string of these perhaps, requiring several components from several different places. Once you have retrieved and returned all the components and loot to the NPC, he can proclaim that you must be strong with the force and offer to train you in “Enhanced Combat”. Then you get xp as usual, however only this NPC can train you for these FS skills.

Crafting Mastery: Requirement – Current Mastery of one Elite Crafting profession. Here I envision an NPC that is looking to resupply their store with high quality goods but can’t afford to pay upfront. They instead offer superior training if you can fill their order. Have the items be based on your profession and have requirements pertaining to the quality of the item. The items would have to be made by the player. Again, once meeting the NPCs requirements will open them up to train you in Crafting Mastery.

Enhanced Reflexes: Requirement - ??? Any Suggestions? (Maybe Scout or Ranger for Terrain Negotiation). Now I know I remember reading that one of the trees in this profession had to do with vehicles. So, why not create a quest out of the new Swoop Tracks going in. To impress one of the top Swoop Race instructors in the game, you have to prove your worth. You need to post specific times on all the various swoop tracks in the galaxy. Once you manage to impress him, he offers to train your reflexes to make you a better driver among other things.

Force Progression: Requirement – Mastery of 1 or possibly all 3 of the other FS Skill Trees. Here, once you have realized that you are very strong with the force, you venture out to meet an NPC that one of your trainers told you about when you mastered their skill set. Here, you meet with an old NPC, hiding away in a cave. Rather than venture out to complete a mission, this NPC tests the strength of your mind, asking you riddles and posing scenarios to see if you are worthy of further training. There should be many questions that the NPC can choose, and failing the test causes some form of time penalty. “Come back and speak to me in 3 days, perhaps by then you will have time to see the wrong in your ways.” Again, this NPC will become your trainer upon completing the quest.

Once you have mastered all of these force sensitive skill trees, you are ready for the Jedi Trials if you truly wish to become a real Jedi Knight.

Well, that’s how I’d like to see it. Sure, it may be easy to the power gamer, but what isn’t in this game? Trying to make it hard to them puts it out of reach for casual gamers. What I am suggesting here is to at least make the process more than a simple grind fest. Write NPC dialogue worth reading rather than skimming for a target or destination and make it fun. Whether it takes hours, days or even weeks, at least it would be more enjoyable than just clicking on a resource every 5 seconds or spamming the same attack on the same creatures over and over. The hard part of becoming a Jedi shouldn't be the force sensitivity part, you're born with that. It should be working up the skill trees to become a powerful Jedi Knight while fighting off the bounty hunters after you. That should be the hard part!!

Thanks for reading this far,

Toront

I didn't bother reading any other posts and I doubt the DEVs will either. I have just discovered a simple formula, it's called the SOE makes more money this way formula. (We'll call it tSOEmmmtwf)

So here's how tSOEmmmtwf works: SOE has this idea about making an online Star Wars game (this will be I for Idea) They then start to tell everyone how amazingly cool it is and how much stuff everyone will be able to do (B for baiting) Next they go into Beta stages where they "randomly" select people to test and tell everyone how cool it is but not allow them to say how many bugs there are. (B^2 (B squared) for morebaiting) Then the game launches and so many people have pre-ordered the gameand are so excited about it that it doesn'thow many bugs there are, it just launched OMFG OMFG It's awesome! (A for stage of Awe) The DEVs then start fixing some bugs here and there and adding things very often to "enhance" gameplay (F for frosting on the cake, I'd use Icing but I is already taking) Some players start to realize that the game isn't at all what was expected or promised and start to voice this on the boards but, alas, they are ignored by most people but the DEVs knew this would happen eventually and start to secretly throw together more frosting for that cake that's getting rather moldy underneath. (P for DEV panick incase these smart players are listened to) Then there is a period of nothing, some people join, some people leave, more bugs, no fixes, a few adds. (I wont add this to the equation because it has little effect) We have just passed the stage of thd DEVs making Jedi their top priority, because Star Wars=Jedi=more players=more money (J for, of course, the Jedi mind trick) We are now at the "we are saying sucks to the combat revamp, we just said that to get your hopes up we are working on an expansion [to get more people to get more money]" part of the whole thing right now (S for screw you noobs you fell for our trick(s), again) Once JTL launches all of us people who want a realitic Star Wars online universe are screwed because there will be a huge wave of noobs that will cry "nerf!" just like the first wave of their kind (L for lightspeed to SOL) Throughout this whole thing the DEVs ask us what we think the game should be like, not really caring the entire time about what the hell we think. (Unless of course it helps them make more money. W for pulling the wool over our eyes)

So what do we have? (I+(B(B^2))+A(F^P)*(J+S)+(L*W))=tSOEmmmtwf(btogasaym) (That last part is "because theyonly give a s**t about your money")

Having said this,I don't give a damn about you stupid noobs who all want to be Jedi, if you want to be FS and have all these cool, ub3r l337Jedi powers, play KoToR or JA. The path to force sensitivty should be a mysterious one, not so mysterious that you have no damn clue what to do but that you there is some randomization and exploration into what must be done. If the path is completely the same for everyone, then once a person figures it out they'll shout it all over the boards. Make the general path the same but have small changes here or there. (Completing a mission in different ways would result in a different mission or different results) Are you going to pursue the force withKindess or malice in your heart? If you are evil in your actions you be sent to evil NPC's, or vice versa. Not only should it be driven by your good/evil scale but also by your form of task completion. (Sort of like the questions in KoToR) If you are more analytical than pysical in your approach then the force powers you receive should be more like mind trick but if it's the opposite you should get things like speed. So if you are a character who uses brute force and is evil when accomplishing tasks, you'd get something like force lightning, eventually.

But wait, why did I even type a suggestion? The DEVs wont even listen.

-Ignorance is Bliss-

I think it should be given from the very beginning, yet the path to become Jedi should be incredibly difficult and long even somewhat mysterious.

Why?

Simply, because the most insulting aspect of this game is seeing all of the "Jedi Updates" every time I start the launchpad, and the amount of attention and content that is directed to a portion of the game that I do not even have access to!

And why do I not have access? Because I chose not to grind away the community and unique contribution I would like to make to the game as a player with personality and history. It is no wonder the game lacks content, all of the players who actually try to contribute to it get a slap in the face.

Make it KNOWN, dammit. It'll be just like hologrinding if you have everyone running around trying to figure out what to do to become FS.