Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one? (II)
Elitesolider
Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:01 pm
#664
My Reply:
The path to becoming Force Sensitive should be Mysterious. It shouldn't be super easy for everybody to become force sensitive. Everybody can be this, but it should take a very long time. Otherwise, your just going to defeat the purpose of reducing, or stopping the growing population of Jedi Players. The SoE Developers of this game should focus on finding other elements in the game that could attract people. That element could encourage players and have fun in-game. The Jedi Profession and Force Sensitive character shouldn't be the pinnacle of the game. It should be looked at as a way of life with pros and cons. Their are always other alternatives to fixing the problems of the game. Changes that can also be made to bring the game back to where the movie is now. It's all about balancing everything out.
FreedomHero
Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:17 pm
#665
I think it should be a mysterious path, even if people were to find it. Small changes to it could keep it a ongoing difficult path. If you let everyone know out in the open then its just back to a repetive system of knowing whats going to happen. A mysterious path will make it more intresting and fun for players who want to enjoy becoming force sensitive, because you may not what may lie around the next corner for you. Leaving it mysterious also gives players a chance to think and solve puzzles to draw themselves closer and closer to thier goal.
AlkalineTrio2
Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:47 pm
#666
I like the idea of having an npc only you can talk to.. but comon i wana get on and be a jedi as fast as possible.. being a fencer is really fun! and so is being a swordsman but i really only want to hold a lightsaber in my hand and do some really cool force powers. holding a lightsaber must be like a really godly feeling.. having a really cool flashlight in your hand. so why not just make it known. please no more mysteries.. i bet most people are sick of hologrinding and not having the proffesions they want but then i feel the pain that the jedi right now had to suffer through.. so many proffesion they had to master just to get a hold of the flashlight.
So why not just make it known yet points wised. im thinking about having "force knowledge points" something i planned of. like spider man 2.. except they have "hero points" so how about giving us random npc's or emails and tell us what to do. and if your really into the game you should be able to get "force knowledge points" in a while.. but no months i want jedi.. umm you know NOW!! but i cant and its useless until two more months.. so i've been playing since december that many months ive been trying to get jedi. yeah you know what.. its really hard to choose between the both. current jedi are gona be mad because they had to spend a bunch of months and then all of a sudden people get it fast.. yet it would be fair if it would take months to get it.. then again i dont wana wait months. so its really hard to choose.
But im going with known cause i want jedi badly like other players. So i dont want to suffer what other players did. i stayed grinding what i liked and im having lots of fun but at least let me hold a lightsaber and make it do damage. han solo wasnt a jedi yet he sliced that animal for luke. why not let people hold lightsabers. but like i posted before.. every one would get one of lets say 40 different emails. and it would say go to this npc. do his quest. get another different email saying go to this other guy. and until you reach 1000 "force knowledge points" you would get the jedi email. it would say go to this guy he will give you the lightsaber and robe also he will be located at this waypoint incase of training so the jedi that emailed you will be your trainer. some random npc only you can talk to. that way each would have it differently. so it actually depends on how much the player actually plays. so if im a freak and play 60 hours a day( i know thats not possible but...) hey i got a jedi and then i would duel random people and die a horrible death. yep its all good. and then go outside in bestine then get attacked my bounty hunters. so dont make it mysterious. but make it so it all depends on the player play time. so i vote for.. KNOW IT ALL!! and no dont make it vissible to every one.. just to that one person. it be cool if this idea is taken and i would get a cool email from some random npc looking for help. on the day publish 10 comes out. oh and to make it somewhat hard.. the npc's should be around yavin4 and dantooine. yeah so you would meet up with strong creatures while at it.
So why not just make it known yet points wised. im thinking about having "force knowledge points" something i planned of. like spider man 2.. except they have "hero points" so how about giving us random npc's or emails and tell us what to do. and if your really into the game you should be able to get "force knowledge points" in a while.. but no months i want jedi.. umm you know NOW!! but i cant and its useless until two more months.. so i've been playing since december that many months ive been trying to get jedi. yeah you know what.. its really hard to choose between the both. current jedi are gona be mad because they had to spend a bunch of months and then all of a sudden people get it fast.. yet it would be fair if it would take months to get it.. then again i dont wana wait months. so its really hard to choose.
But im going with known cause i want jedi badly like other players. So i dont want to suffer what other players did. i stayed grinding what i liked and im having lots of fun but at least let me hold a lightsaber and make it do damage. han solo wasnt a jedi yet he sliced that animal for luke. why not let people hold lightsabers. but like i posted before.. every one would get one of lets say 40 different emails. and it would say go to this npc. do his quest. get another different email saying go to this other guy. and until you reach 1000 "force knowledge points" you would get the jedi email. it would say go to this guy he will give you the lightsaber and robe also he will be located at this waypoint incase of training so the jedi that emailed you will be your trainer. some random npc only you can talk to. that way each would have it differently. so it actually depends on how much the player actually plays. so if im a freak and play 60 hours a day( i know thats not possible but...) hey i got a jedi and then i would duel random people and die a horrible death. yep its all good. and then go outside in bestine then get attacked my bounty hunters. so dont make it mysterious. but make it so it all depends on the player play time. so i vote for.. KNOW IT ALL!! and no dont make it vissible to every one.. just to that one person. it be cool if this idea is taken and i would get a cool email from some random npc looking for help. on the day publish 10 comes out. oh and to make it somewhat hard.. the npc's should be around yavin4 and dantooine. yeah so you would meet up with strong creatures while at it.
Padtai
Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:38 pm
#667
Many people want to be able to play a jedi. Even if they enjoy other aspects of the game--the whole concept of being a jedi and having 'special' powers is at the core of the Star Wars Universe. These people will say they want a known path so that they have a better chance to obtain a jedi.
On the other hand,many people feel that Jedi should be pretty rare. So a lot of people will say they want a mysterious path since that would discourage the number of Jedi in the galaxy.
That's why I think you're asking the wrong question here--not whether the path should be "known" or "unknown" butwhether the path itself should be something that allows everyone to get a jedi or something that only allows a "chosen" few. But since the question you've asked is known or unknown, I'll throw my vote for known--but only if the system itself is something that anyone can do, anytime they want to try it, without regard to how many other players are trying to do it too.....yet still would NOT result in a guaranteed unlock. In other words--an adventure lottery that is not a campfest.
So here's an example of what I mean. Players would start the jedi quests with either of the two Jedi on Dantooine, runing the basic missions in sequence. After the first three, they would offer the player an instanced mission that would start that player down the quests for Jedi. As multiple players could take the mission out at one time, there would be no "race to loot" between players, so that multiple players could attempt the quest anytime they want. Here's the catch though--in order to complete the instancedmission, one part of the mission would require the player to basically pick a number out of a hat (perhaps choose a switch to press, an enemy to killl from a line of suspects, a person to let live...an item to craft...something with some story elements to make it interesting).... With the right answer being randomly determined each time the mission is instanced. This way no wallktrhough could guarntee sucess, there would be no "camp fest" of waiting for a loot drop. The chance the player would guess right could even be modeled on the old probability that the profession they chose to master was one of the five requried ones--ie 1/32 on first quest, 2/32 on second, 3/32 on the third....all the way up to the final quest only giving a player a 5/32 chance to guess correctly. Only those most dedicated to obtaining their Jedi would devote all their time to endlessly trying the quests over and again, hoping to get lucky when they get to the "random test" part. Now if those quests were filled with interesting challenges and monsters and loot (none of which would be required for someone to unlock), this would make trying them over and again just as fun as trying the various in game dungeons again and again are. The difficulty level should be such that one could do them alone, but still easier and more fun with a group.
Now depending on whether you wanted to allow "fair" opportunity for entertainers and crafters, some of the instanced missions could be a crafting or entertaining challenge...but ultimately the key is that the mission be instanced (so players are not forced to compete WITH each other to unlock), with only a small probability of success (so no guarantee of unlocking). You could play with this of course--so that perhaps with enough persistance one could "lower" the odds of guessing the right action to take each time the same mission is attempted--similar to the way someone who wanted to master all 32 professions was guaranteed a Jedi.
But anyway, I think a system like that is the only way you can offer up a known path that will still be challenging and fair...because the path would be known, but the right decision to actually unlock would not be known. Any other solution--such as a mysterious path or a known path that requires waiting for random spawns, just becomes frustrating for those wanting to be Jedi and in general hurts the atmosphere of adventure you have in the game.
Lemill
Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:07 pm
#669
I believe that the path to FS should be known, and should not be just another useless time sink to keep players subscribed to the game. I have played this game for nearly a year and many others have played for just as long or longer and should the path require another six months of doing one quest a week (as one player suggested) the only thing thatmight keep me from canceling my subscription is the hope of a space expansion.
One thing that I have never understood about developers of MMOGs, is their belief that the game belongs to them. When you produce a product such as this you are giving ownership of the game to the players. They make what you do valuable. If the desires of the players are not gamebreaking, give them what they want, don't tell them what they want. I've seen that destroy game communities, look at the history of Infantry and its player base and you'll see what I mean.
In this casemany playerswant jedi, they've played the past several months wanting it and they don't want to play the next half year working towards it. That will just lead to more frustration with the game itself and more canceled subscriptions.
Sweere
Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:57 pm
#670
My big problem is here in a couple (2) months, andI'll have played this game for a full year. I've tried the old path and it wasn't working well, not in my opinion. I figured when I bought the game I'd play as it was for a good while, and while I'm not on everyday, grinding professions and what not. I had hoped to become a Jedi by the time I had fulfilled a full year into the game. With the new system, DO NOT hide it's path. And now I doubt if I will make my self proposed deadline. I know ya'll don't want massive amounts of Jedi running around the block. But this is getting out of hand. People bought and buy this game because they want to become and play a Jedi. Sure I enjoy playing around in my galaxy, but I would like to do what I bought this game to do. PLAY a JEDI.
Short Answer: NO DO NOT MAKE THE PATH A MYSTERY
starpopper
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:07 pm
#671
ok this is how i see it, there are ppl who have grinded thier tails off and still have not opened thier force slot. i personally belive it was unfair for the devs to stop the opening of force slots after pub 9 no matter what they do there will be a flood of jedi after pub 10, so i think they opening a can of worms they wont be able to handle..the quest system is a good idea but i belive it will be full of bugs and probly wont work right at all....why should a person with 26 professions have to go thru the whole quest sytem i bliev the best thing they could do at publish 10 is give ppl with 25 or more professions done their force slot as a reward for thier efforts not make them work endless hours doing a qeust sytem they should have to do,now ppl with less the 25 profession down should have to go thru a quest sytem but with the more professions they have they get thru it at a faster rate then with one of has only a few professions done.
just a thought
cage nightrunner
Telerios
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:26 pm
#672
I don't mind the mystery about the current system. What I mind is the fact that I make and finish a character long before I create him, with the current system I have to butcher my character and spend a great deal of time with professions that I really don't want to play or worse, grind just to get the master title.
I think there should be a system in place that keeps track of all characters to an extent, and when certain requirements are met, the player will recieve hints as to where to start the quest to becoming Force Sensetive. Now this is just one idea, there were many in the past that sounded pretty solid. To get back to my idea, these requirements could be professions mastered, money made, percentage of game world explored. All this should be a goal even a very casual player can reach depending on how much time they invest in playing.
Simply put, I don't consider the current system fun, or immersive in any way. And in fact, I quit my account for a good time after the first FS characters came around, realizing just how dull the mechanics for unlocking that character slot were really ruined the game for me, and I've been playing since Beta. It just wasn't Star Wars.
On the other hand, if it can be done, I wouldn't mind a more open system either. Gives you something to work towards too, and it still can be very hard and could still require any player to do hint gathering etc. to get more clues about what they need to do to unlock their Force Sensetivity.
Oh: And if you're hiring professional umm.. err..umm.. well I'm a professional german and I'm available!
I think there should be a system in place that keeps track of all characters to an extent, and when certain requirements are met, the player will recieve hints as to where to start the quest to becoming Force Sensetive. Now this is just one idea, there were many in the past that sounded pretty solid. To get back to my idea, these requirements could be professions mastered, money made, percentage of game world explored. All this should be a goal even a very casual player can reach depending on how much time they invest in playing.
Simply put, I don't consider the current system fun, or immersive in any way. And in fact, I quit my account for a good time after the first FS characters came around, realizing just how dull the mechanics for unlocking that character slot were really ruined the game for me, and I've been playing since Beta. It just wasn't Star Wars.
On the other hand, if it can be done, I wouldn't mind a more open system either. Gives you something to work towards too, and it still can be very hard and could still require any player to do hint gathering etc. to get more clues about what they need to do to unlock their Force Sensetivity.
Oh: And if you're hiring professional umm.. err..umm.. well I'm a professional german and I'm available!
Message Edited by Telerios on 07-12-2004 11:33 PM
AlmightyLink
Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:00 am
#673
It should be mysterious because as they are saying in the movies : Only few thingis known about the Force (or something like that),
Well, my opinion is that jedi should hide themself, or put vader to start hunt some, I mean you were saying it was between the Episode IV and V.
Excuse me but if there was overt jedis at this period of time the Emperor would start a big hunt if you see what I mean.
Few Jedis was cool, to much jedis is boring, now you can't go in a cave without seeing a jedi clearing it.
It's my opinion, do whatever you want with it
Midwestsurfer
Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:03 am
#674
Know, I don't want to have to go through waiting and trying to figure out how to unlock again. Its boring, and its lame. It HAS to be quest driven, something you can bring your friends along on to help with so EVERYONE can complete it. It shouldn't cost 50000000000000000000 credits to complete, it shouldn't be based on "uber" rare loot, rare spawns, or running around for 9 months going from NPC A to NPC B.
Just trust that not EVERYONE will want to be a jedi, and let those who want to be jedi be jedi. For most of us its simply to expensive to be a good high end jedi that unbalance the game. I'd like to try the jedi content, do something DIFFERENT then the normal combat proffesions and normal quests. Once the novelty of it wears off jedi will drop like flies as people decide they arn't worth it and get bored with them.
Jolandir
Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:07 am
#675
For one more opinion! I feel each player should start FS in a very small degree. Some have said FS 1 or some such thing, because all that the movies and books give is that everyone is tied to the force, so this would really be in keeping with that concept. But the path should be one has to be determined to do. You should have options which can send you some slight amoung down the dark side or the light side, which influences after while which NPCs will enter act with you. They should be quest based but in fairness to all there needs to be different paths for different kinds of characters, i.e. entertainers, artisans, medics, scouts, marksman and brawlers should all have a somewhat different path and emphasis. Elite Professions can have an influence on this as well. Those who chose constantly more "fighter" style must be more careful of going the dark side. They need to take quests and missions that emphasize help to the rebellion or to neutrals (not Hutt like, but true neutrals) to keep going down the light side. This is not to say that it should completely eliminate imperials who would like to be a lightside Jedi, but their choices will be much tougher as long as they stay imperial thus the neutral quests and missions will be the main way for them.
At a given point you should have to find a mentor. Mentors (already existing Jedi or NPCs Or Devs dedicated to mentoring) should not be able to take more then two or three "students" under their wing. Once the person unlocks the Jedi slot (this is because FS is in everyone) then they must find another tutor here their mentor, unless a master Jedi, should only be able to tutor one (A master Jedi could be able to tutor say two or three at most).
Here again in the Jedi path one's quests and missions must be chosen carefully so you go down the path you desire. There should be some way for the player to be able to see what their "leaning" is. Of course at some point the player will either by default from their choices or by choice either become a darkside or lightside Jedi. I also feel Dark Jedi should have the option of being loners to try and cultivate their own little or major empire in opposition to the Emporer and not just forced to be his. This carvignb out his own nitch could be like developing a Dark Jedi Master guild and town - city and possibly his own planet control. This is one of the main reasons the Emporer hunted down "all" Jedi they could find that would not side with him. This would mean the dark Jedi who had too much glory seaking in his veins to be left alive as possible opponents. The liightside Jedi could stay neutral but certainly could not side with the empire or seek to carve out his own nitch (his own Jedi guild and town like the dark Jedi could possibly do). He would be allowed to mentor other Jedi until they decided to go either dark or light. If their pupil wanted to remain neutral he could stay with his mentor then, but again this would limit him as well as to what he could do or not do without declaring a dark or light side. A neutral Jedi would not be able to become a Master, instead he would be limited to knight.
Anyway with a general different path for each basic profession and with influences from elite professions, players could know the general path of how you progress, but they would also realize some quests and some possibilities they will never know until they are at that point.
Anyway, just my 2 cents worth!
Jolandir
SilentBob792
Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:17 am
#676
JustG wrote:
(Now with 75% more info!)
There are many stages in the path to becoming a Jedi...
The first among them is becoming Force Sensitive. Once you become Force Sensitive you can choose to continue on the path to becoming a Jedi or not. The path to becoming a Jedi will be a long and dangerous one.
Publish 10 is focussing largely on the path FROM Force Sensitive TO becoming a Jedi... this is going to be very quest and story-driven, and will take some effort and time on the part of the players. This path will be directed, and you will know how to get through, but it will also contain an element of mystery.
My question has to do with the step before all of this... with how you actually become Force Sensitive.
The question to continue discussing is this:
Should the method of becoming Force Sensitive (not the path from Force Sensitivity to Jedi) be a mysterious, unknown mechanic orone that is visible and known to everyone?
Thanks for the continued feedback!!
I think the method to become Force Sensitive should be known but difficult. The problem I see a lot of people are having is that their main will become the Jedi. While I hope this is the case, a lot of people don't want to lose their main characters. The way around this is to become Force Sensitive and then REDO everything on the new character. If this process is unknown, then 1) you have to hope you can "unlock" on your main character, and 2) DO IT ALL AGAIN without any direction.
That's my thoughts in a nutshell.
biwan:Denver Torrin
Adventure, excitement... a Jedi craves not these things. ~Silent Bob, Mall Rats