Development Cycle Archive

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verit wrote:
im straight forwarding this whole thread to the boyz over at gamespy, they tore the dev team a new **edit** with their last article and im sure would be happy to do so again. make changes that 95% of the players dont like, and lose cash. when will you arrogant people learn?

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TroThorns wrote:

That is a very good point, not only the new crafters will be dead. New players period will be dead. I just read the game spy review from one of the gamespy editors who said he quit cause of how badly he got killed in PvP. Nerfs are bad because it shows a flaw in the development process. But sometimes they are necessary. But an uneven nerf kills the game. Period. That is why this change is so horrible.

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Was that the same guy whosaid he was a Teras Kasi?.

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Galaxyburst wrote:

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarghhhhhhh I have reread this thread.

Most of the veteran master crafters are against this publish, most of the new crafters are against this publish and most of the hunters are against this publish.

Several of the posters have clearly an economic degree and have put in very intelligent ways why they are against this publish. As numerous times already mentioned in this thread, there are so many other simple solutions to level out the crafting field:

1-increase the spawn of rare resources so that newcraftershave the possibilitytocompeteon quality with the veteran master crafters. Have you read about that guy who has already waited for more than 5 months for a certain resource so he can compete? More competition=lower prices. Heck if you turnthe rare resources into common ones, people won't be hoarding andthat will save spacein your precious database.

2- increase the drops of skill tapes; see above.

3- make a miner class (and perhaps farmers)which can turn low grade resources into high end resources; see above.

Please think wisely,

Galaxyburst

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I agree with all these ideas. These would all improve the crafting business a lot!

We should be debating this radical crafting change in the "Concept' phase....not at the eleventh hour of production. Have the developers 'measured twice before making the cut'?

Besides everything that is wrong with this patch, which many have already said so I don't want to repeat it again, the way this is tested and pushed out is very wrong.

Last patch a server copy was made for testing. Whay has that not been done for this patch? That would let the crafters test and compare with the exact same resources thay have today so we can compare and see how this will affect us.

/account cancelled

Thanks DEVS I got my RL back again.....

See you all again when I receive the 'You can now start as a jedi initiate' email

BYEEEE!!!!!

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JCatano wrote:

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Ocu_Lus wrote:

Boy, if they back out of this change, I would hate to be in that meeting.

Dev: "Hi, we're here to discuss the implementation of Publish 7."

SOE Exec: "Did everything go as planned? I assume there were some minor bugs, but everything else?"

Dev: "Well, we pulled out the crafting changes that we thought would help the economy based on player feedback.:

SOE Exec: "Oh really? The majority of players didn't want this implemented?"

Dev: "Um, well, less than 10% of the player base voiced a negative opinion towards the change."

SOE Exec: "Hmmmm, they tested it out and didn't like it?"

Dev: "Yeah, sort of. See, of the less than 10% that use the forums, even less than that play on the Test Center server and those are the ones that actually played with the system we were going to implement."

SOE Exec: "I don't understand then. How could the players that didn't use Test Center know that they didn't like the change?"

Dev: "They were basing their opinions on the feedback of the test center players only."

SOE Exec: "So what you're saying is that less than 10% of the players knew that it was coming, and even less than that even tested out the system? So the 90% of players that didn't even use the system will never even find out if they like it or not, because a minority of players said they didn't like."

Dev: "Yes."

SOE Exec: "Now, how many man hours and at what cost did you devote to these changes?"

Dev: "Ummm, Thunderhearts check was $1,000,000.00 plus a small house in the Hamptons for having to deal with irritated players. Tack on about $5000.00 for everyone else, that's about it." C'mon, laugh, it was funny.

SOE Exec: "Alright, just wanted to make sure we were under budget. Thanks."

While yes, this an attempt at humor, you get the point I'm driving at.

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Bingo.

That's why it needs to be given a chance. Most of us don't even know what is going to happen, and the ones that have tried it on the TC don't have any real experience with the system in regards to substantial time using it. Making a weapon here and an armor there on the TC for a weekwith no real customers/interaction isn't going to tell anyone much.

And, yes.....

This forum is only a sliver of the playerbase, and the vast majority are just the unhappy players that need a place to vent every day or two. Satisified players don't come here too often.

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Isn't this a bit of a flawed argument? If you're right then why have TC then? It's pointless. Anything that's tested there is just for fun. It'll be implemented cos the players there don't know $hit and represent the minority anyway. What do they know?

Oh, maybe it wasn't clear from my last post but I still don't think the intented changes to the crafting system is the way to solve things either. Maybe changes to the crafting system, but not these changes since it would make crafting less fun.

[quote]This is what I've produced so far:

300 T21 Rifles, mine are best on server. I have schematics made to produce another 1000 (well 10 sets of perhaps 98 Rifles) of them, each with an individual unique APH, Rifle Barrel and Stock which I traded over to another non-crafting character of mine.

200 Laser Rifles & Laser Carbines, again, best on server and unique schematics to make 1000 more of each.

200 Jawa Ion Rifles, again, best on server and unique schematics to make 1000 more.

For Composite Armor, I've focused on only 3 pieces of two types. I have produced 160 of each of the following:

80% Kinetic 71% Chest Pieces

80% Kinetic 71% Helmets

80% Kinetic 71% Leggings

40% Stun 64% Base Helmets

40% Stun 64% Base Leggings

40% Stun 63% Base Chests (can't seem to get 64% on the chests due to 4 required segments)

And I have schematics to produce another 160 pieces of all 6, all ready to go, stored on a 3rd non-crafting character I have. Since these 3 peices wear the most, I'll live with the other arm, hand and foot peices that are not the major ham burden.

Now, Dev team, explain to me, how a day-one-launch miner like myself, in the time since this thread first appears, is going to do anything other than continue to elevate myself as the "richest" player-character on my server. How is any crafter on my server going to be able to compete with my resource stash, my 9 armor factories, my 6 weapon factories & my immense knowledge of the current crafting and experimentation system.

I use NO SKILL TAPES, I do not live in a Player City to recieve any experimentation bonus, yet, I produce the best weapons, period, on my server and can produce armor on par with the launch masters still going at it.

Oh I've got a couple 100 DXR-6 Rifles also pre-made and sitting in the input hoppers of my factory.

It has to do with one thing and one thing only, experience.

On my server there are handful of Masters who have the resources and experience to utterly destroy any recent Master who has been struggling to break into our niche. How are these proposed changes going to benefit them when we have already produced weapons and armor and schematics to continue to produce the same quality even once the NERF is put into place.

We've already beaten you at your own game. If the nerf is put into place, as I have outlined above, I can just sit on what I have produced and can continue to produce and continue to rake in cash. My weapons vendor has been selling like mad. I've even stopped stocking it since I am just going to sit and wait to see if you guys actually do this and destroy any possibility for non-launch Masters to compete with ones such as myself.

With the declining player base that will occur I can only hope I get a chance to sell everything I can produce with the schematics I have stored in the datapads of my other characters.

Malfunction

Radiant Server[/quote]

Please consider this. I can say without a doubt that this is not the exception among the high end crafters, it is the norm. This facet of the patch, if lauched, will create an elite class of crafter that will warp the economy in ways that you can't begin to imagine. It will create a seperation that will not be able to be fixed.

I have been part of a 5 man crafting team since launch. We run over 250 heavies currently that we have accrued over the many months since launch. We have 100's of millions of units of resources and now we have schematics. You will propel us into an area no new crafter will ever be able to attain, and we will probably be able to milk it far beyond the new year.

If this were many many years ago, I think they would have called us "robber-barons". But in an economy with absolutely no controls, one does what one can to get ahead, because to not do so leaves you in the wake.

Forbin
Helix
Lowca

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JCatano wrote:

That's why it needs to be given a chance. Most of us don't even know what is going to happen, and the ones that have tried it on the TC don't have any real experience with the system in regards to substantial time using it. Making a weapon here and an armor there on the TC for a weekwith no real customers/interaction isn't going to tell anyone much.

And, yes.....

This forum is only a sliver of the playerbase, and the vast majority are just the unhappy players that need a place to vent every day or two. Satisified players don't come here too often.

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How did your player on Test Center find the changes? Did your character find the quality of items reduced to any degree? Oh wait, it appears you don't have a master craftsman on Test Center either. So, your pro-stance on this change is based on what information? What hard facts can you cite on the issue? Hmmm, none at all? Well, since you say the changes must be good even though you have zero experience with them .... I guess you've swayed me with such irrefutable logic. Perhaps there was a reason they discontinued character copying to Test Center. I know I would have tested it thoroughly if I could have copied my character over. I sure am not going to spend the time leveling up a character to master on Test and play the live side version as well. It wouldn't matter though. You seem to have discarded any information that has appeared from Test Center players as inadequate anyway.

I think if you look at the size of threads that have opposed other changes, you will find that this issue seems to have generated interest of an extraordinary degree. This, and other threads on the issue, are filled with not only forum veterans, but also quite a few infrequent and first time posters. It might be a more accurate indicator of the actual playerbase sentiments on the matter than you realize. I have yet to find one crafter on my server in favor of this. I have talked to many about the coming change. Some weren't even aware there was a change coming. After doing their own investigation, I'd invariably get a tell later about how it seemed like a bad idea. If you feel so strongly about how this is a change for the better, why haven't you riled up this vast silent majority to rise up against the extremists who dare to storm the gates of Heaven? Surely you could have rallied up somesupport by now to put down the unwashed masses and send them packing. Let them eat cake!

This crafting nerf won't do a damn thing for many months because of resources.

Think about it: The juggernauts probably have millions and millions of resources stockpiled. When these resources are depleted, no, they most likely won't harvest the current s**t spawn (and you know it'll be s**t because it's almost always s**t). They'll find someone who's selling these resources for 100+ CPU. They will undoubtedly be able to afford it and will still be able to make better items than others. And since everyone wants the best weapon/armor/etc. they can, they will pay for it no matter the cost.

I'd hazard a guess that this change will still let the juggernauts monopolize the market for many, many months.

Now, if you actually let really good resources spawn and for a month or two, then you'd be accomplishing something. However, your track record for resources shows the OQ/PE of, say, lokian whild wheat will be below 300 and thus the little guys will be doomed to make second-rate products that no one will buy because the juggernauts have 25 million units of OQ/PE that's 800 plus--and if they don't, they'll find someone who does and buy it from them at 100 CPU.

Hopefully master doctors have scouting or friends that are helping them try to open up shop because herbivore/avian meat will almost always sell for 30-100 CPU. Also, let's try to bump the yield for meat, can we? This will lower the value and let the little guys try and compete. Maybe I'll reconsider being a master doctor again if this happens. I gave up all hope of ever trying to compete because I coudln't find the resources that I needed to make items on par with the juggernauts or I couldn't afford to pay 50+ CPU for them.

Just remember, if you go through with this change and keep letting s**t resources spawn, you're only going to allow those with a monopoly to have even greater control.