Development Cycle Archive

Sorry I didn't read past the first page...

I think the schematic limit should be 100 units per schematic, however you should be able to Q up schematics in a factory. Maybe limit the number of schematics that could be stored in a factory to 10.

I see limiting schematics to 100 as working backwards; find a solution that is a forward motion toward added features and functionality.

Well, this post doesn't say a lot, and is on the 20 somthin'th page, but I figure I muctu as well say something.

I like 1000 unit schems. DB Wise, the larger schems aren't any different (40 items... But you have to have 10 times the resources, which discourages players from doing a full run.) But they also where originaly intended to be 100. So it's a strange place to be in.

As a player (Not my other role in life as a software developer) I tend to like to have 1000 unit schematics. I don't like to pay attention to the factory, I just want to wind it up and let it go. Since I only play once per day for a few hours, it's better for me if the factory finishes as close to when I log again the next day. But since I can't come up with resources that fast, I only tend to run about 6 a day. (Varies, I actually do 1 run of 1000 every couple of days so as to minimise the effort needed.) Since I use the factory components in small quantities (tailors need a lot, but only if they do a lot of tailoring, which I don't,) I sell the rest to pay for my harvesters and hunting expeditions. I can only move so many in a given time period (The market floods pretty quick...) I slowly pace the supply onto the market to balance the flow.

But a 100 use schematic will reduce my throughput. I will be maxed at 4 crates a day because my factory will stop 4 hours after I start it (Roughly 1 hour after I log) and will sit dormant for about 20 hours a day, doing nothing but eating credits. Is this really a problem? Not really. My factory often does this anyways when I decide to take an extended haiatius on Lok or something like that...

So I guess in the long run I would rather not see the change, but I would be only moderately impacted by it.

This is an exploit huh, and we are all cheaters for using it? Why dont you try makeing a schematic for some number over 1,000. The SWG error that pops up says "Please choose a number between 1-1,000". Now tell me why the SWG error says this? It couldn't bebecause they intendedus to craft up to 1,000 items,could it?

Nimhnoid

Doctor, Pistoleer, Commando

Nice. It looks like they went ahead and made the change anyways. Thanks devs, now I won't have any spare time to enjoy the game!

--Tyriel Lupar

Sigh. Is this really causing a game balance issue? No, not at all. Is anybody being hurt by it. No, not at all. Do 1000 item schematics make life easier for crafters? Yes they do. Is there *any reason* to make this change, other than to annoy crafters/make the game more work? No, not at all.

How impactful is it? Very much so. Every high end crafter I know uses 1000 item schematics. We need a ton of subcomponents. Should we have to log in every few hours to make another 100 item schematic, turn the factory on, etc? No, it's senseless work, please don't waste our time, we play SWG to have fun, not to have a second job. Making armor for people is fun for me, being chained to my factory is certainly not.

A reasonable limit is 1000. It's been working fine so far. People make 1000 item schematics, then put in enough resources for however many they want (whether that be 250, 500, 333, whatever). At least on Chilastra there is a lot of very healthy competition, no crafter has anything close to a monopoly on any good, to me this means, the schematics aren't a problem. All the 1000 item schematics are doing are making it easier on crafters, so they don't have to babysit their factories and can go on hunts, or do quests, or hang out in a cantina. That's what I thought the point of the 250 skill point SCS system was. You diversify your character. Do different things. I didn't think it was "sit by your factory and log in every few hours to make another schematic/start your factory again". Maybe I'm way off here though.

As someone who deals with huge corporate databases for my job, I find your logic backwards, as 10x less schematics (1000 item versus 100 item schematics) would mean...less entries in your DB. Remember Melon Nerf? You changed 3 melons down to 1, because it was adding too many items to the database. Now you're proposing to make people make 3-10 times more schematics, have more crates (crates of 33 for things with 3 ident. sub components) instead of 50, which is an increase of 50% for the crates and 300-1000% for your DB load.

Please"fitch the glitch" the way it should be, make the slider go to 1000, or leave it the way it is.

I don'tthinkIt has anything to do with the number of runs that the schematic can make but the resulting crates that I think they're afraid of. Even though my opinion is if I want to fill up my **edit** house with crates of one factory run I should be able to.

Here's the impact as I see it; though given how shoddy alot of the SOE stuff is god knows if I'm looking in the right direction here:

a) schematics over 100 would be kept in the players datapad even after the resources run out. At least until they decide to go clean it up. If I do a run of 300 on a schema of 1000 then forget it I usually go back and clean it up a few weeks later. Schematics get destroyed when they reach the manu limit so smaller limits mean less schema's in overall circulation.

b) more crates, more inventory, more items produced for the db to track, which it apparently already has an issue doing and we're only 2 months into game.

*sigh* (shoots database to put it out of it's misery)

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Jezebelle2004 wrote:

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Holocron wrote:

I'll state up front that there may be DB reasons why we don't want a huge number here, so I will have to check on whether changing it is feasible at all.

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What "spinmaster" told you to say that? Its ridiculous as anyone with any database knowledge knows.

Databases store logically. An item with a serial number would have a field called QUANTITY

It doesnt matter if that QUANTITY is 100 or 1000 (except an extra zero)

It would look something like this:

Quantity 100,Serial Number ABCDEF, ID Blahblahblah,etc

or Quantity 1000000,Serial Number ABCDEF, ID Blahblahblah,etc

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Geeze you must be bored :/ Who in the hell wants to spend that kind of time slaving at a factory for such little outcome. The factories are already as slow and as cumbersome as they can get. This would just add to their headache.

Here's how I handle it and I'm probably one of the people SOE would like to nerf with the schema limit. Since I've been master and running factories for about a month and a half I've a great back supply of ore, etc.. so here's my weekly work:

a) Take the total of last shifts ore (about 200K) and make a schema for a structure mod with 1K limit

b) run all 1K at once giving me 10 crates of 100 units. Squirrel this away for the next weeks use.

this gives me 100 wall units (which I actually build by hand since it's faster than the factory) for 250 resources used and all at once; no running back and forth to the factory which doesn't fit anywhere near our PA or my house.

All the other schematics I hardly ever run over 50. The highest would probably be generator turbines which I run at usually 41 a time, then take 1 to make a manufacturing mech schema and do 20 of those.

So sure.. limit it to 100 for some of the things but don't fuss with my Structural modules *cry*

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Phaseadept wrote:

Maybe I'm just ditsy or something, but I agree it should remain at 100.

IAs far as I know, there isn't 1 Architect schematic that requires Factory made wall modules. So what is the deal with stockpiling a bunch of them?

As far as making a PA hall. It requires 150 structural modules. Make 2 schematics. That nets you enough for a pa hall and a medium house. What's the big deal?

Matsuri Auroch

Master Architect

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OK, first off, in response to someone further up the page, limiting schematics to 100 means I need to make more schematics. I'm not going to make less Armor because SOE decided to make it more of a pain to do so. I'm just going to adapt. So is any other decent crafter out there. Adapt or quit. That's all you can do. So instead of me making one 1000 item schematic, and putting in as many resources I have, I'll have to make say, 4 schematics of 100 to make my 360 items (say I have resources for 360). Now guess what? I still have that unfinished last schematic!So if I "forget to delete it" as you said, it'll still be there....100 or 1000 the exact same issue exists. I guess your theory kinda dies there. And in the process the DB has had to create/destroy 3 more objects (my first 3 schematics). Let me clue you in, this is *much* worse for a database. You're seriously increasing the load, which means decreased performance. You want more lag? This will be a nice addition. You want to increase your odds of a database failure? This is a good start.

And to the guy who thinks that 1000 item schematics and macros are ruining the game for "real crafters" or something... You know, the macro system is PART OF STAR WARS GALAXIES. It was designed to help you play better. If you can't figure out how to use it to your advantage, then you're not playing the game the way it was intended for high level players to play it. And if you're not a high level player well..that's cool, just don't expect to be one of the few masters out there selling tons of goods. Do you hit enter to go through your crafting stages? You know, the idea behind the GUI and the graphical button is to click it. By your logic, so what if you can hit enter and go to the next stage, saving some time? The button is there to be clicked. And if you hit enter you're an exploiter! Nerf keyboards, they're too powerful!Even though hitting enter (exactly like the macro system) was designed as part of the game to make SWG less workand give you more time to have fun. Please, get a life. This is a game, it's not supposed to be a job.

I'll write in yellow, cuz in 30 pages of garbage, my post is gonna drown.

A) Why don't the results of our factory runs come out in 1 single crate? I don't really see the point in having multiple, 25 item crates, of my weapons or sub components. Why can't they just come out in one, large crate, and allow the crates to be SPLIT, like Resources can be? I think that would go a long way to clearing up a lot of DB problems, and will help to alleviate the huge inconvenience of most crafters who have to keep around multiple crates of the same item in their houses or inventory. (i.e. I just made 100 FWG5s, but they're in 4 crates...no point in that)

B) I like a previously stated idea: Why not allow subcomponent SCHEMATICS to be used as ingredients in factories? Just supply the raw resources in the ingredients hopper and let it run. This way, a crafter can create a schematic for 100 components (i.e. Blaster Power Handlers), run a few BPHes, craft their schematic for a Scout Blaster, then stick the Scout schematic into the factory, add the BPH schematic to the ingredients hopper, and fill in the rest with raw resources. Sure, a rather far-fetched idea, but it would certainly alleviate the number 1 complaint: Having to wait for massive amounts of sub-components to be made. (Of course, the fixcould just be way of forcing the time sink...in which case, ignore this.)

C) In any case, the largest inconvenience has to do with sub-components. Most people don't really care about only making 100 of the finished product, but if sub-components could just be given some sort of flag that allowed them to be created indefinitely, that would help us all out. (i.e. no real reason why Blaster Power Handlers can't just have 1 schematic made, and have those BPHes be run indefinitely...they're going to be "destroyed" almost as soon as they're made anyway). In all reality, the only reason why you'd want to make another schematic for a sub-component is if new resources shifted in that was better, or you ran out of an old resource.

To summarize: A larger item limit on crates would be nice, along with a "Split" feature, just like Resources. Somehow allow for Schematics to be used as ingredients. Definitely allow for high-quantity runs for Sub-Components...these items could be flagged as such, none of them are ever used for anything else, and they're consumed almost immediately.

While I think the 100 item limit is too low, I could live with it if I could set the factory crate size. I would like at least 200 per schematic.

For example, a crate of 50 Stim Bs is too expensive for most starting players. They might be able to afford 10 but do not want to take up the space. I can generate crates of 10, but I end up babysitting the factory. All-in-all, making small lots is a pain.

As a second example, Medics who consume my components want as large a crate as possible. It would be nice to be able to give someone 100 Adv BEC or power ups.

Right now I run 2 accounts with a master artisan/ architect and dr/be on the other. I will just stop selling and craft for only myself and close friends if this happens. This change is just stupid....

The way I see it, you made the database abillity based on what you thought would be a subscriber base load, and we have exceeded that meaning we have more people playing than you first thought, and you are making more money as a result... So to keep this added profit high your going to nerf everyone instead of upgrading the DB itself or systems they run on? hmmmmm

I thought the melon thing was pretty funny, but now am wondering if these nerfs will continue to come as the subscriber base grows. What will be next? 5 lots and 1 house max? LMFAO

Sounds about right based on what has been done in the past... no?

All these references to "self admited exploiters" is a bunch of horse manure. IF it was an exploit then why haven't the Dev's killed all those accounts? (Other then the fact that they can't afford to do that even if they were so inclined. SWG is in enough trouble with the crummy reviews and people canceling in droves.)

This is just like the AFK Sample "exploit" a lot of idiots on this board dreamed up. It was not an exploit, the Dev's wrote the bloody code to allow you to do it, if they didn't want it done then all they had to do was disable it, which they eventually did.

The 1000 schem's are the exact same thing, for6 monthsit was a known and discussed fact of SWG play. Then all of a sudden and retroactively it is an exploit because a few hard core "make it as tough as you can cause I love the pain to prove what an uber gamer I am", elitisttypes, started up their whine bitch moan and cry routine, again, to get something removed that allowed the casual gamer some chance of keeping up with them.

It was not the "power gamer" thatgot the benefitfrom AFK sampling, and it is not the "uber gamer" that benefits from the large schems, it is the casual gamer, the type that these rules nazi's have systematically run out of SWG.

I know it makes you feel all big and important to jump on this sort of thing, it allows you the delusion that you know something about what makes a good game, and it lets you feel all superior to call other people "cheaters", for doing something it took the Dev's 6 months to figure out if they wanted in or out of the game.

I repeat, one last time, this game mechanic has been known about for months, it was discussed ad nausem in beta, IF at any time prior to the last couple of weeks it had been seen as an issue it would have and could have been dealt with, it wasn't because it wasn't seen as an exploit, and as of this MOMENT it has still not been decided if the limit should be 100, 200, 500, or 1,000!

Johnny-Umah

Master Weaponsmith

Naboo, Chilastra

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VaMage wrote:
if they didn't want it done then all they had to do was disable it, which they eventually did

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Precisely, they eventually did. And now they fixed the schematic exploit. And very likely they will soon fix the macroing exploit.

If you actually read through this thread, you will find posts by people who had no idea about this "widely discussed" thing. My guess is the vast majority of Artisans had no idea it was possible to exploit the schematics to 1000 units.

Most people just play the game, and don't seek out handy ways to cheat. As you yourself point out above, the devs will eventually fix all the exploits. The fact that they are fixed is the proof that they are exploits.

Drivel and call names all you like, your exploit is now repaired and you just need to get over it.