Development Cycle Archive

Thread: IC 1-16: Combat Roles; Teras Kasi Artist

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Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:49 pm
#53

Sorry to complain but to those who go through and one star posts that have actual points whether you agree to them or not all you are doing is hurting the community. This is an in concept forum which Thunderheart set up to get ideas of what the community sees as the direction for the various professions. So please if you disagree with a post don't 1 star it to the default setting oblivion. Thanks


Sorry for the hijack/whine but hey I didn't spend an hour typing up ideas to have some troll 1 star it.






Sliiith
Wanting to hunt more Frikkin Jedi!
I killed it...Dibbs!
TKM/ Medic/ SL


EmobBreiPistoleer
Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:03 pm
#54

Plzz read thos Sony.... i think TKA need to get a speed boost on how fast they run, cause it is annoying when a marksman jsut runs around in circles and he is 1 meter too far from you!!!!



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Emob - Bria |
Elder Everything Cool |
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Ebei - Bria |
Master Architect |
4332 -2972 Tatooine |
Taking Special Orders! |
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spoiledbrat
Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:46 am
#55


This is from the Teras Kasi Artist Correspondent.
IMO, he made a very good summary of whatwe TKAs suggested there. Although he mentioned he wanted to present it to you, the Devs, I am posting this here as a complementation.






Mister_Heavy wrote:


OK, here's a draft of what I'm eventually planning on presenting to the developers regarding what we want the TKA profession to be. This is a work in progress, so have a look, and post any comments you might have.


For the record, I'd like to say that I'm pretty excited about this



Teras Kasi: The Mystic Warrior



DRAFT


The Teras Kasi community has taken the opportunity to gather and present its thoughts on the evolution of the TKA profession. Below are a number of key points and comparisons regarding how we see TKAs fitting in with the rest of the brawling community.



Offence


The main offensive strength of TKAs will be our ability to apply state changes to our enemies. We want to be the class that achieves victory by degrading our opponent's ability to fight back. We like our current assortment of debuffs like blind, dizzy, stun, intimidate, and knockdown. We would like to see improved and expanded versions of these skills. Improved versions of existing skills like Stun2 could dramatically reduce our opponent's to-hit rolls. Completely new skills like "hobble" could greatly reduce the firing of our opponent's defensive skills (dodge, evade) for a period of time. Skills like intimidate 2 and warcry 2 could be further augmented through the TKA tree.


In addition to a wide variety of state changes, we would need our state changes to be highly effective. If they're to be our main advantage, they need to be comparatively reliable. When we use Knockdown, it should generally stick. When we use dizzy, our opponents should generally become dizzy. Bonuses to causing stun, dizzy, knockdown, etc. should be a part of the TKA skill tree. Of course, this will have to be balanced, but as our primary offensive strength, we would need to be able to rely on these skills.


In terms of speed, we see ourselves as the fastest brawling profession. All other professions must swing a weighty weapon, we have no such encumbrances. If you're lowering the speed cap to .5 seconds, we see ourselves as the profession that fills that slot.


We do no see ourselves as "the damage dealers". Weapons were invented and used because they are more damaging than bare-handed strikes. Weapons trade versatility for damage. Therefore, we see ourselves as having the lowest damage per hit, and the lowest overall damage per second of the brawling professions. Our debuffs and state changes will allow us to compete, but in terms of raw damage output, we see the weapon-using brawlers doing more than we do.


We would like to get rid of Vibroknukclers. We are an unarmed profession and we dislike having to rely on weaponry. As an alternative, we would like some of the benefits of VKs worked into our skill tree. For example, the attacks in the "Precision Striking" tree could be so precise that we are able to find the inevitable chinks in our enemies armor. Therefore, when using head hit, body hit or leg hit, we would be granted AP1. We do not need AP2 or AP3 as those ratings are reserved for vehicles and tanks, and we would not have trained to fight these things with our hands.


We would like the ability to do restraint damage. A major aspect of martial arts focuses on holds, chokes and joint locks, and these moves are lacking from our skill tree. Furthermore, restraint damage seems to be a natural part of unarmed training in a galaxy where many of your enemies may be highly resistant to regular, kinetic damage. Since we will have no weapons, restraint damage would have to be achieved by the use of new "grappling" skills. These could be called "Wrist Lock", "Arm Bar", or any number of other suitable names.


We do not see ourselves as having the ability to apply any DoTs. We will leave bleeds, poisons and the like to the other professions.


Area attacks seem more suited to the broad strokes of a weapon, and we are willing to give up all area attacks in pursuit of the various advantages described above.



Offensive Summary:



  • The most debuffs & state changes
  • The most effective state changes and debuffs
  • No weaponry of any kind
  • The ability to do AP1 with the precision striking skills
  • The ability to do kinetic damage with new, "grappling" skills
  • No bleeds
  • No area attacks
  • Fastest attack speed
  • Lowest damage per hit
  • Lowest overall raw damage per second


Defense


As the profession that can cause state changes, we would like to be the profession that avoids state changes. A Teras Kasi Master should beextremely difficult to trip up, knock down, stun or dizzy. Our training in applying these states to our enemies teaches us how to avoid them ourselves. Our inner focus would make us exceptionally difficult to intimidate, or terrify with cover fire or a battle cry.


Furthermore, rather than our current status as the "toughest" profession, we'd rather be the quickest. We see our defense being centered around dodge and evade, rather than in simply being able to soak up more hits.


In keeping with our reliance on evasion, we would like bonuses to our defenses while not wearing armor. Ideally, a TKM would be more effective when unarmored than when encumbered with the bulky confines of a protective suit. Perhaps our passive defenses would only be exceptionally high while we're unarmored. Clearly this would be a difficult thing to balance, but we're interested in at least exploring this opportunity.


Finally, the meditation line provides self buffing and augmented recovery. We love the meditation line, and although we have a couple of small things we'd like changed, we would like for it to remain basically as it is.


Defensive Summary:



  • High/Highest passive defense mods
  • Highest resists to state changes/debuffs
  • lowest "toughness" score
  • Self buffing and recovery through meditation

Message Edited by Mister_Heavy on 12-19-2003 08:34 AM







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One of the few players without an interest of becoming a jedi and never unlocking since launch
Xanamiar
Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:27 am
#56

Quite honestly, as a Master TKA. I think that the TKA profession is very good, for what it is.


But if a TKA is supposed to be able to go toe to toe with a Jedi, perhaps instead of changing TKA, they should put a new Tree in, a tree that costs more skill points.. therefore making it a bit more fair for a Jedi to go up against a TKA.


Make a Master TKA specialist profession. A profession that takes FOREVER to get up, and is harder than anything else in the game, besides Jedi.


Start the new profession taking 6 points, then 5, 4, 3, 2, and 1 for Master TKA Specialist, but I think it should take a very long time just to get the first skill.


This would make it true to the stories, and the Jedi couldn't complain because the TKA's are spending their points into a new profession which is an Elite-Elite Profession.





Time is Everlasting, but our days are numbered.
atimes
Fri Jan 30, 2004 7:14 am
#57

TKA is perfect like it is. Don't touch anything. Just fix COB.
zajuc
Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:36 am
#58

I am hesitant to post this becaus of the flamers who may take us off subject but here goes...


I have studied the Martial Arts for over 20 years and unarmed can be a very serious damage dealer. Some of you may be coming from defensive arts and thats great but asking for lower DPS is not neccessarly consistant with the unarmed world. Some trained people can kill or maim you in a single blow as well as do Dots. I know several attacks that will result in damage over time...


My point, I solo more then I group andI just don't want to see our damage nerfed to the point of it taking me half an hour to kill some mob and that is my motivating fear. I agree that when someone swings at me I can throw them, hurt them or hold them and that should be in game as well.


I also strongly agree that we need special Jedi nerfing abilities so we can hunt these guys. It is not only consistant with the story line but would get the devs out of the huge, game killing mistake that they have gotten them selves into. Namely allowing player controled Jedi.


And for those that think Jedi are the super humans that we now have in game...look at episode 2, Ben didn't do so well against the Bounty Hunter.


obijkenob1
Fri Jan 30, 2004 2:43 pm
#59

"And for those that think Jedi are the super humans that we now have in game...look at episode 2, Ben didn't do so well against the Bounty Hunter."

Right. And thats when he didn't have his lightsaber equipped and the Slave 1 was firing at him. And it was against the galaxy's best bounty hunter.
SlasherZet
Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:03 pm
#60






obijkenob1 wrote:
"And for those that think Jedi are the super humans that we now have in game...look at episode 2, Ben didn't do so well against the Bounty Hunter."Right. And thats when he didn't have his lightsaber equipped and the Slave 1 was firing at him. And it was against the galaxy's best bounty hunter.






I don't think Obi was a good Jedi altogether... In EP, he failed to defeat Darth Maul, the Sith defeated him and then destroyed himself with his own pride... In EPII, first he fails to take information from Zam Wessel, then he loses to Jango Fett and his son. Following this loss, he nearly gets killed in an asteroid field. Right after he lands on Geonosis, he is kidnapped by Count's Dooku forces. Then a bright light of Force shines upon him and he survives the Geonosian Arena. But then again he goes back to his clasic condition and loses against Darth Tyranuss... In the Clone Wars, he fails again, this time to keep Anakin on the Light Side. And finally, he lets his former Padawan win over him on the first Death Star...


Man, Obi was an idiot.

obijkenob1
Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:15 pm
#61

SlasherZet wrote:




obijkenob1 wrote:
"And for those that think Jedi are the super humans that we now have in game...look at episode 2, Ben didn't do so well against the Bounty Hunter."Right. And thats when he didn't have his lightsaber equipped and the Slave 1 was firing at him. And it was against the galaxy's best bounty hunter.





I don't think Obi was a good Jedi altogether... In EP, he failed to defeat Darth Maul, the Sith defeated him and then destroyed himself with his own pride... In EPII, first he fails to take information from Zam Wessel, then he loses to Jango Fett and his son. Following this loss, he nearly gets killed in an asteroid field. Right after he lands on Geonosis, he is kidnapped by Count's Dooku forces. Then a bright light of Force shines upon him and he survives the Geonosian Arena. But then again he goes back to his clasic condition and loses against Darth Tyranuss... In the Clone Wars, he fails again, this time to keep Anakin on the Light Side. And finally, he lets his former Padawan win over him on the first Death Star...
Man, Obi was an idiot.



In the novel version of a new hope, Vader describes Obi-Wan as one of the greatest Jedi ever. And the way I remember it, Obi-Wan cut Maul in half. Regardless if the Sith had him beat or not, Kenobi walked away, the Sith did not.

He lost to Dooku after fighting for who knows how long in that Arena as well. Regardless, the Jedi we did see in the movie were mostly the creme of the crop. The Jedi in the game shoulnd't be as strong (just like the in game bounty hunters shouldn't be as strong as Boba or Jango) as the ones in the movies. How TKA powerful TKA should be should kind of be scaled to what the Jedi in the game will be.
Xeranx
Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:44 pm
#62

I'd like to make a few points about what MH said. Intimidate 2 and warcry 2 are master brawler skills. Too many and asking for our heads on the chopping blocks because they confuse the skills with the professions already. We don't need a correspondent confirming what they've been thinking when it's false.


Also. Many unarmed fighters do use something to extend the amount of damage they can dish out and I have not seen anyone who absolutely must depend on vks for anything. I haven't used mine in months. The condition is still at around 900+ and I still come out on top about 80% of the time when I go against a tough critter.







Teräs Käsi Master 9-27-2003
Master Smuggler 3-04-2004
XeoTsugaru
Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:20 am
#63



Teras kasi's are the best melee fighters in the game, and they should be even better. Why waste your time with Heavy Swordsman, Fencer, or Pikemen when a TKA will simply dominate? It seems like 90% of melee fighters in my server are TKA's, they are just the best in the group. No question.

People get really into it with the meditation training and persevering up the unarmed tree. You use the same skill points and time to go up any of the other melee trees, why must the TKA be more rewarding? I am a master Heavy Swordsman and mind hit is my main one-on-one attack, but a TKM also gets a mind hit (as well as action and health) that is much more effective than mine. I don't understand how TKA's rule all other melee professions and people still want them stronger. You know, the other three melee professions have to chase after a ranged person as well, couldn't we get more ranged defence as well? Or be able to burst run better? C'mon now.

In my opion (as a non-TKA) TKA's are way too powerful, they can blind, stun, dizzy, kd... and people want every other effect in thereas well...such as DoT. If a TKA bleeded me, it wouldn't matter, they hit too quick for how strong they are to even give me time to bleed.

Another thing, Heavy Swordsman do get a move that can Dizzy/KD but it isn't nearly as effective as a TKA's, even if I successfully dizzy/KD a TKA they get right back up with little problem. If I get dizzy/KD'd once, it's over for me. I just don't understand what all these TKM's are crying about.

Now they want their profession to be just as strong as the Jedi profession, then why the hell grind for months to get FS when you can master TKA in a matter of days? I absolutly hate the PvP system right now b/c of TKA's . I won't do it, there's no sense in even going overt in a raid b/c I know there will be at least three TKM's to deal with. Now look, Teras Kasi's are so over-used, they have two acronyms (people don't know what I'm talking about when I say "HS"). Remove the "Galaxies" from the title and simply name this game: Star Wars Teras Kasi: Mastering the Art. This game is based not on skill, but on what profession you choose.

All-in-all: Yes, Teras Kasi profession is very effective in battle (just maybe a little too effective) in close-quarters.
Jowekie
Sun Feb 01, 2004 8:55 am
#64

I agree withsome of what has been said by MH. What I dont understand is why we are calling to nerf our own profession. You really think lowering our damage significantly is going to be counterbalanced by state effects?


Look at the effects in game now, the only one that is of any use is Dizzy/KD. None of the others make a significant difference in the tide of battle. Especially not compared to your damage output. Personally we'd be better off giving up effects for mid-upper level damage.


Unless they put in new effects and lower the speed cap to .05 (still not a huge difference) we'll be screwing ourselves by asking for these changes.


The only other way to save us, by your proposal, is to make TK unhittable. Raise our defenses so we are missed 75% of the time. That would allow us to whittle down the enemy since we'll be doing such little damage. And you know that will never fly in PvP.


I just think you should be careful of what you wish for. You may get it...along with some other stuff you don't want too.





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Ketic Darkstar ~ Flurry ~ Teras Kasi Master ~


PwyllTwiceborn
Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:04 pm
#65

I think the TKA profession is fine as it is with the exception that they deal too much damage in PvP vs. other melee fighters because the melee mitigation hurts the other brawlers but literally goes unaffected by the TKM.



=====================================================================
Pwyll Twiceborn - Bloodfin Server, Master Fencer / Doc
Masakari - Intrepid Server, TKM / 0444 Pistoleer / 0040 Smuggler
Ngamok - Orc Warrior still in my Orc mother's Womb

*Disclaimer* Posts are my opinions, not FIGHT CLUBS *Disclaimer*
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