Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-16: Combat Roles; Teras Kasi Artist
Stoindexter
Sun Jan 25, 2004 3:23 am
#40
The most important thing to consider with tka is this: Is the tka a tank(damage taker)or a damage dealer?
If the TKA is a tank, then the damage mods definately need to be reduced (greatly), with the defense mods going way way up.
If the TKA is a damage dealer, the defenses need to be reduced and the damage increased even further than the previous 2 increases.
The rest is irrelevant. Right now the TKA is a sort of damage dealing tank, which are by far the best pure combat class in game.
It would make sense to me that a tka should be a tank. Why you ask? Because there is no way in any universe that is bound by the same laws of physics that we are that someone with their bare fist is going to do more damage to a 60+foot tall walking metal chicken than someone with a flamethrower. Things like this detract from the immersion into the game.
I have issues with kd. It is an end all be all move. KD should be a lot more risky of a move to try (aka the ham cost should be greatly increased).
My 2 cents.
Xenozx
Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:03 am
#41
My point of view on the TKA / and melee proffessions in general
For reference I can mention that I am Master TKA / Master Heavy Swordsman / Master Fencer on Chilastra - also had Master Brawler....
1. I see theTKA as angoodtank in pve as well as pvp and good damage dealer - the way things work now a tka do way more damage in pvp than any other melee proffession due to their high damage bonuses and the effect of damage mitigation which seems really odd as it is hard to understand how a fist or kick even with armored boots or a knuckler in your hand can do as much damage as a two-handed weapon ehh ??.
2. I think the TKA is currently the best functioning proffession of all the melee proffessions - they have some great special attacks and abilities though they should have the ability to do bleeding attacks due to the internal damage they do to your body when they smack you up. they should be good at defending and good at doing damage - the best allround melee proffession thus making them good for soloing purposes.
3. The TKA should be above average when it comes to damage and defences though not the best - thus making them the best allround solo proffessin for melee.They should have a good variety of special state attacks which they already have. I would also like to see special melee weapon powerups that could be made by weaponsmiths only maybe different types for different effects and lvl's of weaponsmithing. etc. poison powerups / fire powerups immagine phosphor injectors in a blade... maybe armorpiercing powerups...
4. As for defensive abilities I think the melee proffessions should all be rewamped so that we get stances. etc. light stance that allows for really good speed / lower damage- medium stance with great defence medium damage and medium speed - heavy stance that allows for extreme damage and AP but low defense.
5. Some nasty specials like -Unarmed whirlwindthat should soak up yourmindpool but raise your action and health regeneration rateand give some speed / damage / defensive bonuses and last for about 1 - 2 and 3 minutes based on the skill you have this would mean that you would have to rely on a combat medic to heal your mindpool though if you need to utilize this for longer time and also buffs from dancers/ musicians would be very valuable along with foods from chefs. A really heavy attack like last ditch for smuggler that can make enemies flee in panic.
6. Should add a morale boost that enables groupmemebers to raise their regenerative abilities due to the meditative nature of the tka and their knowledge of the body's metabolism etc. raise willpower / constitution / stamina or even a combinationt - maybe this could be done so that theTKA can run an aura like effect and thus decide what boost he or she wants to add to the group.
7. The TKAshould be a really good asset for when you want to go take on some heavy mobs or do mass pvp as well as solo.
8. The TKA should rely on doctors and combat medics as well as firesupport from the rear ranks of a battle as well as the defensive skills of a fencer and pikesman due to their superior tanking abilities... and the extreme damage and armor piercing of the heavy swordsman as well as the critical attacks of the fencer.
9. The TKA's role becomes clear when you take a look at the advanced technology that allows for extreme personal armors and shields that protects against firepower of all kinds along with the many raids that to take place to clear out bunkers here you often get in close where the skilled melee fighterwith powerfull weapons can be vielded for good results in battle / factional headquarters as well as when big game hunting needs to take place.
Yours Sincerely
Xenozx
Xenozx
Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:05 am
#42
BTW!
All melee proffessions should be given a charge abitlity to burst in close combat with their opponents . like a 10 seconds burst run ability that recycles like once every minute or 30 secs.
Xenozx
MaxPhoenix
Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:03 am
#43
doh forgot two unique moves
Dance - the should have the ablity to do a combat kata. in wich they do some of there moves in an aranged "dance" this allows them to heal their BF
Chi Channel - This is a set of moves that require a certian amount of premeditaion to do.the numbers may seem extream but trust me well worth it. the way it works is as you mediate with no injury or bf you store up time for you chi. you can only store and use 30 mins worth a day at master.so you could heal poeple 15 times in a day or achive perfect form 1 time.
1. requires 2 mins and last for 30 secs ;
2. requires6mins and last for2 mins ;
3. requires10 mins and last for 2.5 mins ;
4. requires 10 mins and last for 2.5 mins ;
5. requires20 mins and last for 5 mins ;
6. requires 30 mins and last for 10 mins ;
- Healing touch - weak heal of others wounds
- Wound - this move would work as a status move likeberserk. what it does is increase wound chance to 1000% and dmg by 50%. The hits would be inflicting wounds equal to the dmg they would normaly do.The reason for this is to hurt you enemy bad enough to run or to not beable to heal beefore you can finish them. However to balance this you can't do specials and your def's drop by 50%
- Hands of fire - the move changes the dmg type from kinetic to fire
- Hands of ice - the move changes the dmg type from kinetic to cold
- Teeth of tatooin -the move makes the dmg you do negate AR
- Perfect Form- this move gives the player a slight glow. Doubles there Ham and Dmg and adds +50 to all def rolls
Nef01
Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:21 am
#44
this class is way over powered as it is....you need to take some defences away from them.
Xenozx
Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:03 am
#45
I see the tka as close to perfect already - I don't approve of nerfs and when the other proffessions get a revamp I think tka should also - though I'd like to add that I do not think that totally overpowered abilities like doubling their hams or giving them special attacks that can render a combatant useless for some time would be a wise choice. Especially given the fact that it gives absolutely no sence that a tka is the melee proffession that do the most damage an is the absulely toughest in pvp when you think about the fact that they manage with knucklers and kicks vs great axes and swords as well as pikes and polearms that would easily incappacitate any unarmed opponent in reallife.
Xenozx
Naele
Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:21 am
#46
Due to the changes that are about to appear for Jedi deaths, I'm sure it is reasonable to assume that there will be a significant increase in active Jedi online at any one time. For that purpose, perhaps an addition to the organic system might be in order.
As such, I would like to suggest adding a passive and active skill for us. For example, if a Force user enters within 20m of a TKM, a message pops up on his screen saying something like "You sense an attunement to the Force in (name)." While a TKM is meditating, a command (/senseforce for example) could be typed and any force user within 80m would be detected. The message could be "You sense an attunement to the Force in (name) to the north."
Subutai
Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:29 am
#47
I just want to mention:
This is a rebalancing-thread. Rebalancing!!! Balancing!!! TKAs dont need any loves to be balanced, the just need nerfs!!! So dont write such crap like "more damage, since everyone has 80% kinetics now". TKA/Doc-Combinition is like Droid-Class in Everquest. Everyone is playing SWG on difficultlevel medium - hard. Only TKAs are playing it on difficultlevel kindergarden.
bmeenan
Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:42 am
#48
Conceptually ... I think the TKA as a melee profession should hit very very fast but nothard at all. They should have a lot of specials that dizzy, knockdown, and stun and such. They should have great self-only healing abilities due to their mental training. TKAs should also be very hard to hit and have great defense abilities.
Knuckles or not, TKA are using their hands and feet. Again they are quick, very very quick, but notdamage dealers in any sense of the word. In my mind, a TKA can hit me with his little pinkie finger at the right spot on my neck and I'll be so dizzy I can barely stand. He's not going to take away half of my health.
Grozurr
Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:38 am
#49
wow, lots of good ideas here, and even as an outsider i like the look. however i do have a couple of comments...
as for a "sneaky" TKA i got a bit of a laugh out of this one, b/c about 80% of the time i have fought a TK, they have snuck up on me, and the other 20% i attacked first, so well.... On the note of giving a TK a more "sneaky" feeling, they can buff themselves, and they are virtual tanks, so i really do not feel that TK's need to be more sneaky, wheather it be b/c they have a good deal of punch (no pun intended) behind them or b/c they seem to be good at sneaking up already (or is that just me..?)
I love the idea of TK's being the counter-Jedi, BIG kudos to whoever did that research about keeping the order in check. While all the dodge bonuses, defense mods ect may not become a reality, it would be cool for the TK's to reflect this ability to go toe-to-toe with a jedi and live, possibly by having some jedi-only mods that would reflect this (+def against all force powers, +dodge against lighsaber attacks, +def against mind tricks, ect.)
MiloPEZ
Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:03 pm
#50
Wow this thread hasn’t been touched in a while. I thought I would add a bit different view on the TKA class.
I am not entirely sure if this fits brawler or TK better but I think I will try here first…
I think TK should be the ultimate compliment to any combat class and the Master should carry it as a class unto itself.
Take a look at today’s police and military training. Think back on The Samaria of old Japan. Didn’t/don’t all of these combat classes add to their abilities by learning some form of martial arts?
So TK has already gone down some of this road. They have the meditation tree which is probably the cause of 95% of the TK dabbling in the game. They also have defensive acuity (which unfortunately doesn’t work) but if it did stack with all other defensive traits while those weapons were armed (block for rifle, dodge for fencing, etc…) it would make for some interesting dynamics and further character customization. This would all be in the context of a warrior that has enhanced their fighting ability by mastering or at least acquiring some training in a martial art.
Obviously some further thought and rearrangement would be necessary… Possibly this is a different more standard martial arts profession while TK should be moved to more of a hybrid.
SovereignProtector
Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:15 am
#51
Different knuckler to fix the only fault in the TKA profession energy/plasma/stun knucklers dont know if it will tip the balance but anyways total balance would mean all the professions were exactly the same or had perfect ways to counter all the other professions in my opinion true balance is that every profession has their bane and in case of swg this is more a choise of player skills and gear and template wich is great! =)
Hozer187
Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:17 pm
#52
What defines the Teras Kasi Artist role in combat?
A TK is the master of unarmed combat. They should be able to subdue/kill anyone except maybe a Jedi in a one on one confrontation. I believe that due to their speed and training, a TKM should be able to handle multiple opponents with lower unarmed skills much like real martial artists.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Speed - A TK should be fast and their damage should be proportional to their speed. A fist traveling 50mph should do more damage than one traveling 25mph. Not necessarily twice as much, but more. Any use of armor should decrease speed proportionally. Speed would also affect a ranged fighter's ability to hit them as they are running to close the gap.
Damage - Low to mid-range. Any weapon should do more direct damage than a bare fist if it connects. True TKs should also not use weapons. Nothing like being able to wield a VK faster than my fist. Geez!
What offensive abilities?
States - Dizzy, blind, stun, etc.
Wounds - Bodyhit, leghit, mindhit, and no combos.
Cripple - Ability to change posture to kneeling when focusing on legs and delay next attack when focused on arms. Duration is dependent on how successful the TK is with the move.
What defensive abilities?
Dodge/Defense - Should be high. Any master martial artist will tell you the easiest way to not get hurt is to not be where the attack is. A TKM should not be "allowed" to wear armor and take hits. He/she should be fast enough to simply get out of the way most of the time. A TKM should also only rarely get knocked down or have a state effect.
Counterattack - Less trained melee fighters tend to over extend which leaves them open to counter attack. A TK should be able to capitalize on this situation with an attack of his/her own that does more damage because the opponents defense is lowered.
Force Defense - TK specifically train to fight Jedi. Therefore, it only make since that their meditative techniques and mental focus give them extra protection against Force based attacks. Not too much though or Jedi/TK fights won't be as "interesting".
What unique abilities?
Disarm - Essential for someone going up against a Jedi or brawler and relatively easy for an unarmed fighter to execute. The weapon should actually fall to the ground and have to be picked up again.
Fatal Blow - Numerous styles contain killing techniques at the highest levels. It seems logical that TKs should have one. High HAM cost is a must due to the level of concentration required when executing against a non-incapacitated opponent.
Force Track - TKMs should also be in tune enough with the force through meditation to sense covert Jedi at a decent distance. It would also further the Jedi Hunter storyline.
Meditation - At master level should heal all damage, wounds and battle fatigue. After all, meditation is just a heightened form of rest that when mastered can accelerate the body's natural healing processes.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Tank - Only in the sense that they can keep the MOB occupied and apply states which aid in the rest of the group’s ability to do damage.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Bounty Hunter - Could go on Jedi hunting missions for increased Imperial faction standing.
Others - Any mission.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Bio-Engineer - Can make clothing with wound and bleed modifiers. Automatic pressure dressings.
They distract the MOB while the others do the damage.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Jedi Police. Definitely. Especially with the upcoming proposed changes to Jedi.
A TK is the master of unarmed combat. They should be able to subdue/kill anyone except maybe a Jedi in a one on one confrontation. I believe that due to their speed and training, a TKM should be able to handle multiple opponents with lower unarmed skills much like real martial artists.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Speed - A TK should be fast and their damage should be proportional to their speed. A fist traveling 50mph should do more damage than one traveling 25mph. Not necessarily twice as much, but more. Any use of armor should decrease speed proportionally. Speed would also affect a ranged fighter's ability to hit them as they are running to close the gap.
Damage - Low to mid-range. Any weapon should do more direct damage than a bare fist if it connects. True TKs should also not use weapons. Nothing like being able to wield a VK faster than my fist. Geez!
What offensive abilities?
States - Dizzy, blind, stun, etc.
Wounds - Bodyhit, leghit, mindhit, and no combos.
Cripple - Ability to change posture to kneeling when focusing on legs and delay next attack when focused on arms. Duration is dependent on how successful the TK is with the move.
What defensive abilities?
Dodge/Defense - Should be high. Any master martial artist will tell you the easiest way to not get hurt is to not be where the attack is. A TKM should not be "allowed" to wear armor and take hits. He/she should be fast enough to simply get out of the way most of the time. A TKM should also only rarely get knocked down or have a state effect.
Counterattack - Less trained melee fighters tend to over extend which leaves them open to counter attack. A TK should be able to capitalize on this situation with an attack of his/her own that does more damage because the opponents defense is lowered.
Force Defense - TK specifically train to fight Jedi. Therefore, it only make since that their meditative techniques and mental focus give them extra protection against Force based attacks. Not too much though or Jedi/TK fights won't be as "interesting".
What unique abilities?
Disarm - Essential for someone going up against a Jedi or brawler and relatively easy for an unarmed fighter to execute. The weapon should actually fall to the ground and have to be picked up again.
Fatal Blow - Numerous styles contain killing techniques at the highest levels. It seems logical that TKs should have one. High HAM cost is a must due to the level of concentration required when executing against a non-incapacitated opponent.
Force Track - TKMs should also be in tune enough with the force through meditation to sense covert Jedi at a decent distance. It would also further the Jedi Hunter storyline.
Meditation - At master level should heal all damage, wounds and battle fatigue. After all, meditation is just a heightened form of rest that when mastered can accelerate the body's natural healing processes.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Tank - Only in the sense that they can keep the MOB occupied and apply states which aid in the rest of the group’s ability to do damage.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Bounty Hunter - Could go on Jedi hunting missions for increased Imperial faction standing.
Others - Any mission.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Bio-Engineer - Can make clothing with wound and bleed modifiers. Automatic pressure dressings.
They distract the MOB while the others do the damage.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Jedi Police. Definitely. Especially with the upcoming proposed changes to Jedi.