Development Cycle Archive

i dont know if this has been said in this thread, but shift the bulk of the rewards in professins to the master box. and i think that you should reward masters in a profession by doing even more.

create a master level system. you might have to shift the increase for each skill box a bit through out the "levels" but that is more doable.

there is 2 ideas that popped into my head as i read this thread a bit. the first is to move the mast box into the center of the elite professions and make it that you have to have all the lower skills inorder to gain the master skill. for example i would have to have novice smuggler, 2,2,2,2 before i was able to get the master smuggler box, then and only then could i go higher and gain master and reach 4,4,4,4. this might work, but i suspect that my other idea is better.

we all get xp no matter whether we have reached master or not. its a waste. so lets put it to use, give us levels of master in our profession that gives us more "increase" in the skills that we already have. for instance for a master merchant after gaining a certain amount of merchant xp say, 100000, we go to level 2 of master merchant. at this level our effectiveness at hiring and dealing with employees increases our efficency and we pay less overhead. therefore our maintenance costs go down another percentage of some amount. this would make master boxes sought after.

for each profession you could tweak the percents and bonuses down and then add the master levels which increase those bonuses at each tier within the master box. i dont know if tweaking them down would be a good idea, but the fact is most % chances or bonuses are pretty high or even 100%. by tweaking down and adding tiers or levels to the master box we could then justify 100% at level 10 master whatever.

what do you think?

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Quote:

i dont know if this has been said in this thread, but shift the bulk of the rewards in professins to the master box. and i think that you should reward masters in a profession by doing even more.

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I TOTALLY DISAGREE!!! This is EXACTLY what we DON'T want!

If you shift the bulk of the rewards of a profession into the master box, you are forcing people into "pure" class character templates (in other words classes, just like every other game under the sun) by making dabblers weak. If dabblers are weak, what incentive does anyone have to dabble? People who want to dabble can't do so without making themselves far superior to people who spend the EXACT same number of skill points, but do it mastering professions.

What makes SWG exciting and different is the fact you don't have to follow any certain character template, but can create your OWN individualized character, that represents the character you want to play.

Now, should masters have advantages over non-masters in their respective skills? Most definately. Masters should get speed and accuracy bonuses above and beyond the lower skill boxes, and should get a master-only special or two. HOWEVER, moving all the abilities of a class to the master box is ridiculous. The abilities of a class just need to be properly balanced.

Ex: A pistoleer player can learn the tree with all the great specials (stopping shot, fan shot, etc.). What does that player miss out on? They can't shoot those specials as fast or as accurately as someone who has mastered the rest of the profession, they have none of the pistoleer defensive mods, and none of the pistoleer support mods. Sure they can use some ofthe same specials as other pistoleers can...but the CANNOT do as much damage over time with them (much slower and less accurate) and will survive a whole lot less (no defenses).

Dabblers are NOT evil...they are the very essence of the game. The key challenge of the developers DOES NOT need to concentrate on how to nerf dabblers. The key challenge of the devs. needs to be how to balance all the skill boxes and skill trees in the game to make them stack and mix fairly.

When devs keep mod stacking and get balance right, champagne will fall from the heavens and all will be good.

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Daker-Naritus wrote:

If dabblers are weak, what incentive does anyone have to dabble? People who want to dabble can't do so without making themselves far superior to people who spend the EXACT same number of skill points, but do it mastering professions.

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My appeal to the creators of STAR WARS GALAXIES. I post this here, due to the incoming colossal combat patch coming our way. Before you read this, I beg that you view and read this as a master of all professions, not the advocates of your specific. Please, if you read this, put aside your loyalties to your pet-template, and professions, and just read what I propose.

I will begin by discussing the three most powerful combat professions in the game, Bounty Hunter, Commando, and TKM. I refer to them as the most powerful combat professions, because due to the skill investment, that’s exactly what they should be. Because, if you master this profession, you cannot pursue many other options, these characters should be given a slice of the pie unequaled in the game.

When I envisioned a SWG Bounty Hunter, I envisioned a man feared by criminals and marks alike. I envisioned a profession that had a specific job, and excelled at it. In a time when a Galactic Civil War was underway, I saw BH as the clandestine enforcer of all Imperial and Illegal will. The very nature of the BH profession should have been something that limited its interaction with Rebellion, specifically because most rebellion members should have existing bounties on their heads.

The BH role in combat should be short and sweet. Through the use of LLC’s, Flash-bangs, booby traps, and snare-guns, if a BH initiates combat, it should be over in the blink of an eye. This not only reflects the SW idea of the BH (Slave I and the Mandalorian armor were both designed to quickly resolve a situation with overwhelming force) but the IRL ideal behind a Bounty Hunter. They spend a long time studying their mark, and when they go in, they don’t want to get hurt, so they hit hard, fast, and when least expected.

For BH, I would see them using the current skill requirements, Investigation, Non-Lethal Skill tree with BH specified utilities like the ‘Flash-Bang’ and the Snare-gun, a BH Competency line that adds mitigation to melee attacks, and the LLC tree. Flash-Bang would be designed to flash and flare to immediately blind, stun, and dizzy any and all characters with-in its blast, and would wear off after 30 seconds. The Snare-gun would be designed to immediately incapacitate an NPC sized character. Certain professions would get a save v.s. roll (like TKA and Jedi) but the majority of non-combat shouldn’t have a change. They should also have the skill points necessary to master a ranged weapon profession of their choice to allow for self defense. Flash bangs should be completely ineffective against anyone wearing a helmet (thus actually making helmets useful) and the Snare-gun should be single use rechargeable, much in the same way you add batteries to droids. A single assault by a BH should be devastating to the solitary PC, and the combat gear provides for their success. They should have the skills to use their specific gear, and the gear should only work for them. The BH competency skill tree should lend some mitigation to melee attacks, and also at the higher levels allow for a moving conceal that reduces detection vulnerability to alert characters.

BH’s would then have their niche, and have a dedicated specialty. I find it sad that BH’s are better with pistols than the actual pistoleers.

Commando. When I envisioned commando’s, I pictured Rebel combat types that were the Rebellion answer to the AT-ST. As devastating to PVP as the AT-ST was, the commando should have been equally as destructive. Along that same line, the Empire has very, very heavy vehicles, commandos would have been an unnecessary resource allocation. Commandos with their grenades and flamethrowers should be designed for absolute carnage on static and heavy defenses. Commando’s punch holes in bases and take down the AT-ST’s to allow the more versatile other characters to complete the missions. Commando’s should have the current FT, thermal detonators/cryo grenades, and heavy weapons that are powered normally for turrets, and AT-ST’s, and glop/frag’s for the base defenders. They should have an unequaled devastating punch for anything wearing storm-trooper white, or Imperial Grey. Their skill requirements should allow for them to master commando, and have enough left over that they could master one additional ranged combat profession for PVE and Self Defense. They should have ideal ranges, and be horribly ineffective outside those ranges. Grenades should be 32 meters, farther should fall short, closer should damage everyone in the radius. Flamethrowers should be effective from 16-3 meters, farther should burn grass, closer should ignite the commando, unless he’s wearing a specific armor designed for heat/flame resist. People stupid enough to stand in a group would pay the price, but a Commando should be vulnerable to kiting and knockdown. For this reason, the more versatile characters should protect this range-attack tank at all costs.

TKM. What a cool concept from the SW continuum. A intellectual response to jedi. Jedi were selected because of a mitichlorian count, TKM’s used discipline, and training to achieve their goals. TKM should be the gated masters of melee PVP. A master TKA should be also master pike/fencer/swordsman. Their progression should be as gated and focused as the Jedi. Because of the defining tenants of the Teras Khasi ideals, they should be neutral, and should be the true arbiters of any dispute. Due to the incredible demands of TKA, they should exhaust their SP pool. They should be uncertified for any ranged weapons, and should shun all technology. Remember, these are simple monks that answer jedi flashes with disciplined power. They should get mitigation against ranged attacks, and the masters should be in a constant state of alert. They should be able to take down any NPC with a flurry of damaging and stunning blows, and if someone is knocked down by a TKA, they would need a long time getting up. My view of TKA was someone that would never wear armor, and be repulsed by blasters, and I don’t think that would be so hard to accomplish. They wouldn’t be any good against a AT-ST, but, being neutral, it wouldn’t be their issue. They should be as effective as anyone else in the PVE world, and their skills should reflect a focused, melee attack. Their skill points would be used up in the pursuit of their levels, with Meditation holding the ranged mitigation and alert bonuses, TKA Swordsman holding the sword mastery, TKA Staff holding the pole arm mastery, and TKA Fencer holding the mastery of the knives. They would not utilize vibro unit equipped items, and would only use simple metal and wood staff’s, swords, and knives.

These are the Elite Professions. They are static, dedicated, and hard to master. They will require great sacrifices, and as a reward, they will be incredibly powerful, within their specific scope. The other professions should be the true galaxy explorers, and the more PVE capable characters.

I honestly feel that somewhere, the ever in-effective nerf bat has taken what we all envisioned for our favorite characters from the movie, and made them now into characters that no one wants to play, and maybe if we all think back to what the movies showed us these characters were, we can bring the game back on track.

Star Wars Galaxies, PART II

Now with the Imperial Crackdown evident, we see what smugglers were made for, and where they can excel. The Empire was an oppressive regime, and now, after the loss of the Death Star, they’re furious. The crackdown is only an example of how the game should have been at launch. It’s now evident that smugglers have specific functions, and what I envision smugglers to do is what they now have the opportunity to do. With the crackdown, many items are prohibited, and flying between planets now becomes a much more difficult issue. Many protected animals have a prohibition on the transport on their hides, and treasures. Many, many different materials are used specifically in the manufacture of foodstuffs, medicine, and weaponry, and unless they carry an imperial permit, those items will be confiscated as contraband. (a LIST would be nice) Certain items should be unimportant, certain items should be restricted, and other items prohibited. Examples of unimportant- tusken bantha hides or simple knives, restricted, certain types of hides, meat, and gas, and prohibited, ANYTHING Jedi related, (crystals, krayt pearls, lightsaber tools, etc…) or Rebel faction. To move items, you should do so in 2 ways, legally, or smuggled. Legal would mean that a neutral or Imperial character would buy a permit (they would be good for 20K amount of unrestricted material, for more, just split it into 20K bundles and have multiple permits), and Illegal means that either the smuggler smuggles it, or slices the permit, or ticket. A sliced permit would be to disguise the item (such as crystals or pearls) or sliced tickets would disguise the traveler, in the case of Jedi, or Colonel/Overt Rebels.

Smuggler: It is in the transport and traffic of these items that would be a smugglers mainstay. As the B.H.’s planet of choice would be Tat, Lok would be the smugglers den. Smugglers would have the option to faction align, (even though their tasks would bring them more into contact with Rebel, or neutral forces) but their general nemesis would be the various pirate bands that roam the galaxy. Smugglers use pistols, plain and simple, but smuggler bonuses would be specifically designed for their type of fighting and lifestyle. The smuggler branch would require the pistol and combat lines of ranged, and basic Artisan to allow for their ability to create spice. They would get a quick-draw, a snapshot, and low-blow additions that would specify their combat skill branch. They would also have the slicing abilities, spice making, and smuggling branches that would allow them to progress up the underworld, and pursue their livelihood. Smugglers would be the ones that would excel in moving these items from planet to planet, and they would also be the ones responsible for smuggling Jedi, and Jedi Items from planet to planet. They would have a minimal skill point investment and they would have plenty to master another profession entirely, if they so choose. Smugglers would be a valuable profession that would allow them a versatile position in the GCW.

Squad Leader. Squad leader should be the true leaders of the GCW. Squad leaders should have the option to faction align, and if faction aligned, they should be able to lead groups of PC’s or NPC’s on raids against Faction locations, or they should get temporary NPC assistance for non-faction aligned missions. They should have options that make them the quintessential leaders of the game. Volley-fire, Shift fire, Cover fire, and Directed fire should all affect the firing rate, accuracy, and damage rate of all the members of the squad, where rally, assist, and retreat would draw from the SL’s current pool to give the squad a temporary boost to combat. The SL third branch would be bonuses to medicine use and drag, and the final branch would us SL exp for Ranged damage mitigation. An example of a NPC mission for squad leader would be for them to access any of the NPC battlefields, and get issued numbers of NPC’s equivalent to their squad leader level. That way a squad leader wouldn’t be dependant on strictly PC groups to gain exp with. They would be able to check into the Corsec battlefield, get 3 guys, and lead them into battle. They would keep the current skill investment, which would allow them to pursue other professions as they desire.

1. The strengths are, you are not stuck or confined to HAVE to be defined by anything. You can be a little of this and a little of that and have a lot of fun.

Well i feel the best way to understand the clases is to break them down and define them. Then take that definition and try to best apply it to the skills and abilities of each character.

Below are the definitions as defined by the Developers. As well below is a breakdown of the proper process for really weeding out the problems with each profession. I havnt taken the time to do all of the professions, but just a few that im familiar with and some that im not but from a glance what i feel it would be like to master said profession, as an outsider looking in.

Architect: Allows construction of houses and other buildings.
Requirement: Engineering IV: Complex Systems (Artisan)

Lamens Definition: Expert at building, overseeing the process of a build, and finally desinging structures.

Questions To Evaluate Profession: Does Architect as they are now fullfill these basic functions?

What We Need: Well We need to take away the useless and add more of the pertinant. Such as adding maybe more design options so a master architect can customize structures to a point. Make them more functional for the purpose they are being used. Such as malls and mom and pop shops, maybe adding the option to put in Vendor style booths built into the wall of houses?

Now im not an architect so my information might not be the best but if i were an architect thats what i would want to do as an architect.

Armorsmith: Crafter specializing in armors.
Requirement: Engineering IV: Complex Systems (Artisan)

Carbineer: Marksman specializing in carbines (hard projectile weapons)
Requirement: Carbine Specialist (Marksman)

Chef: Crafter who can manufacture a wide range of foods.
Requirement: Domestic Arts IV: Clothing Repair (Artisan)

Creature Handler: Scout trained in taming and controlling animals.
Requirements: Exploration IV: Alien Environment Training and Hunting IV: Unconventional Methodology (Scout)

Dancer: Entertainer with increased healing abilities through dancing.
Requirement: Master Dancing (Entertainer)
Doctor: A skilled surgeon with the ability to make medicines.
Requirement: Master Medic (Medic)

Droid Engineer: An engineer who builds droids.
Requirement: Engineering IV: Complex Systems (Artisan)

Fencer: Brawler trained in all manner of one-handed melee weapons.
Requirement: Master One-Hand Sword Specialization (Brawler)

Image Designer: A character capable of changing nearly anything about another character's appearance.
Requirement: Hairstyling Specialist (Entertainer)

Musician: Gains healing through music and access to more songs and instruments.
Requirement: Master Musicianship (Entertainer)

Pikeman: Brawler trained to use all types of Polearms.
Requirement: Master Polearm Specialization (Brawler)

Pistoleer: Marksman skilled at using blaster pistols and other small firearms.
Requirement: Pistol Specialist (Marksman)

Ranger: Adventurer well-suited to travel, tracking, and defending others in combat.
Requirement: Master Scout (Scout)

Rifleman: Marksman who is skilled using blaster rifles and other large firearms.
Requirement: Rifle Specialist (Marksman)

Swordsman: Brawler trained to handle various two- handed melee weapons.
Requirement: Master Two-Handed Sword Specialization (Brawler)

Tailor: Crafter specialized in creating all types of clothing.
Requirement: Domestic Arts IV: Clothing Repair (Artisan)

Tera Kasi Artist: A master of unarmed combat.
Requirement: Master Unarmed Specialization (Brawler)

Weaponsmith: Artisan who has become a skilled weapons maker.
Requirement: Engineering IV: Complex Systems ( Artisan)

HYBRID PROFESSIONS
While Elite Professions indicate specialized training in focused areas, Hybrid Professions provide a broader base of skills. Because they are complicated career paths, Hybrid Professions often require some degree of proficiency in two other related professions, and may call for Master titles.

Bio-Engineer: Excels at producing and harvesting organic resources.
Requirements: Organic Chemistry IV ( Medic) & Hunting IV: Unconventional Methodology (Scout)

Bounty Hunter: A mercenary who earns his living by hunting down "criminals. "
Requirements: Master Marksman (Marksman) & Master Scout (Scout)

Combat Medic: A healer who also has some field training to increase his odds of survival in battle.
Requirements: Ranged Support Specialist ( Marksman) & Master Medic (Medic)

Commando: A hardened soldier trained to use and craft heavy weapons.
Requirements: Master Marksman (Marksman), Unarmed Specialist (Brawler) & Engineering Specialist (Artisan)

Smuggler: An adventurer able to sell contraband and collect spice.
Requirements: Pistol Specialists ( Marksman), Business IV: Business Diversity (Artisan), Unarmed Specialist (Brawler) & Engineering Specialist (Artisan)

Squad Leader: A soldier whose very presence in a group provides benefits to all group members.
Requirements: Ranged Weapons Support Ability Specialist (Marksman) & Survival IV: Special Techniques (Scout)


After reading The intended definitions can we truly match each class up as they stand in game with these definitions? Can we Make improvements to the existing professions?
What needs to be taken away, what needs to stay, what new needs to be implimented?

Personally as an individual i feel we as a people have gotten much more complex in our preception of games, we dont want to Push a button and have carbon copy things happening over and over again. As a people we like to be able to customize, and add our own touches to the way we do things, this holds true for both combat and non combat professions.

The key for me would be to find ways that a Rifleman could deviate from the path, almost give 2 Skill choices to the 1 Skill choice. Let me further explain.

How about have an alternate for each skill box, Limit each profession 1 path deviation.

So instead of making the current professions stationary, give them stationary roles but allow them to choose the scope of the role they want.

Now lets say for the sake of better understanding what im proposing i will break it down on the marksman.


Rifle Pistol Carbines Support

Now add alternate skill sets for each of these that would make someone more focused as it were on there profession. So if someones going for rifleman they can choose the Role Skills offerd or go with the general marksman skills.


Rifle Deviated Path Carbines Support

The combination is actually pretty large which would give people more unique. Just make each path equally valuble in Role situations.

I hope my jargin can be understood i just wanted to throw some ideas and focus attention on following the very essence of those professions which is what they define themselves as.

I personally don't see any problem with the mix of current professions. What I would like to see is some quest or missions that would require a group to have a chef, combat medic, or doctor. Maybe the only way to get to a treasure is for the chef to feed a beast to get past. Or it's only attackable with posion. Maybe a doctor is required to heal a victim. There needs to be a reason for the team of 6 TKA's to need one of these other professions.

As I waited for opening day for SWG I had no doubt that I wanted to be either a doctor or a combat medic. I have been extremely disappointed in the way both of these professions have developed and the cause is profession mix and match.

There are very few combat characters who do not have medic skills. So, what do combat medics and doctors end up doing? Medics are a chemical warrior offensive class and doctors are a buffing class.

As with so many of the mix and match problems the solution is to move the critical skills which define the class up in level. In the case of the medical professions only the most basic healing of damage and wounds should be available until Master Medic. Intermediate damage healing should require novice combat medic or master doctor. Intermediate wound healing should require novice doctor or master combat medic. Advanced wound healing should require master doctor and advanced damage healing should require master combat medic.

This would bring combat medic and doctors back in demand to do what their classes should have been doing from opening day.

"What do you think the strengths of professions mix and match are?"

"Players can create hybrid characters that can escape the traditional combat roles of having a single function in combat."

"What do you think the weaknesses of professions mix and match are?"

"allowing players ranged and melee combat roles can garuntee's theywill be “cherry picked” or hand chosen" to create "uber" characters if they're not ballenced propperly.

"How do you think we should maintain the unique skillset flavor the game is built on?"

because "Most skills and abilities are redundant because of balance issues, which take away from the unique feel of the profession." you can't, untill you break this rod you've made for your back you'll be carrying it untill the day the game gets turned off, you will never be able to capitalise on "This advantage we want to maintain, highlight and evolve."

What are some neat combinations that would be good for the game?

any combination that I suggest from current available professions will either have

A: already been done or

B: go over the alloted points expentiture for a character and thus be ineligable because of "balance issues"

Thus I am incapable of suggesting an answer to your question with out creating my own new professions

What else can I tell you .. ? "I think a Bounty hunter/TK would be a good idea and add in interesting twist to bounty hunters? A Ranger should be able to master ranger an elite weapon profession and still have room for surveying4 and some medic skills ?"

get real .. the devs will laugh me off the forums !

Anything else you want to say on this subject?

just two thing's ..please remove this thread and try again, the questions you've posed are SO vague and ill defined (to the point of you've answered 3 of your own questions) I don't see how we can "Stay on topic"

secondly, could you ask teh developers if it is possible to to make some requisits to enter some elite or hybrid professions "optional" eg: say for Bounty hunters, have the option to master brawler or marksman as the combat requisit for there profession ? and thus give the BH profession a second set of skill mods for hand to hand fighting if they chose that route?

I'm sure they could use a good laugh 8)