Development Cycle Archive

I dont mind the ground TEF, if you kill a member of the opposing faction, why not be visible for a short amount of time? i dont agree with the group thing though. When you kill a member of the opposing faction, your group shouldnt have to suffer what you did. If they dont like PVP then they shouldnt be forced into it because of your actions.

TEF is find, group TEF isnt

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Nacho_Fury wrote:

Group TEF, commonly referred to as GTEF, has been a problem ever since the extinction of its predecessor RevengeTEF. Getting rid of that too will stamp out the Clone Wars that go on and spark a new interest in PVP for those that have been sick of it. 9 months and counting.

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Ever try pvping away from the cloner?

Wow you called it Clone Wars...I wonder if that's a coincidence?

Just my 2 cents but Combat rules the way it is except for Jedi. They are NOT overpowered alone and are easily dispatched, but when you group 4-10 of them in one group it becomes a nightmare.

Remove all but 5 Jedi, within a ranking system from PvP. That way each side has "rogue Jedi". All other Jedi become overt to one another at all times.

GCW is pointless because all players will be back in seconds. I can't see what's the point in fighting each other if there is no "death" at all.

My solution would be to grant every player a limited character slot just for playing "the grunt" and doing missions for a chosen faction.

Although some might cry out loud about the poor artisans (who are by far the richest guys around [and are freaking bored by being rich]), i would limit the equipment of those "grunt character slots". They should gain depending on earned faction points and fought battles, access to more advanced weaponry, armor and vehicles.
Armor should vary depending on faction rank and task.
Maybe the different factions could make "crafting contests". If you manage to craft XY weapons of XY quality the faction will buy all of them for XY credits. This might add some competetion to the riskless boring crafting system.
If i remember correctly, there was never again as much PvP (and fun in PvP) as some players had while experimenting with the blue frogs and having thearby complete templates and equal armor/weaponry/buffs, so i considers this rather positive than negative.

Grunt death should mean permanent death and loss of half the faction points and rank but the player should be able to choose from all completly learned skill boxes he ever made with one of his former grunts.
So if you managed to master Carbineer and Pistoleer with your grunts you may choose those professions for every new grunt you have to make after yours get killed.
Finally a "master" would mean something and training recruits would make sense and there would be recruiting at all.

Every soldier needs a mission of course. So there should be a "war time" each day, like 7pm-10pm. Every player can submit his own "ready times" for his grunt and the server assings equal strong forces to the different mission objectives like, or maybe just calling all players with a grunt to the different objectives.
PvP events coulb be created dynamically. The called players would get a rally point to meet up and once both groups gathered they will recieve the battlefield where the fight will take place. If the server would arrange such "events" it might even be possible to control the numbers of participating players by locking the surrounding area (for non-called players) and thereby guranteeing a lag-free PvP faction battle, with fair numbers, fair skilsl and fair equipment.
The controlled scale and place might even allow the usuage of hero characters for certain battles. Maybe calling heros or reinforcements could be made an officer skill.

Imperials: City guard Coronet - Rebels: spread propaganda Coronet
Imperials: attack Yavin 4 temple - Rebels: defend Yavin 4 temple
Imperials: Track down mean rebel special forces - Rebels: try to survive with your elite group against countless imperial grunts


etc.

There are enough games with examples for such "fighting opportunities".

Pros:
- Star Wars feel
- Thrill of "game over"
- factional looking like fights
- fair fights
- action every evening
- PvP players will want to participate on
- great looking blaster battles

Contras:

- Conflict with "6 month character saving", imagine hundres of players to create new characters each week or so
- some people WILL whine about their lost uber stuff
- some people WILL whine about the lack of melee professions o.O
- to be honest this idea will be whined to death like everything else interesting
- this would be too awesome to be true

My best non-roleplay SWG experience was when a group of 20 (ranged fighting) noobs went out for squill hunting from anchorhead. It looked and felt actually Star Warsy and there was a certain risk since most didnt even have mounts.
By advancing the way to travel doesnt matter much and by being buffed you are too powerful for such stuff alone which is quite boring.

I should stop dreaming *sighs* ... For some reason i still have faith that this game might be (Star Wars-)fun to play sooner or later.
In the naive hope of someone reading my ideas i hope to help to improve it.

HIT ME!

Message Edited by jason67 on 01-11-2005 08:57 AM

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jason67 wrote:
I enjoy the TEF system and believe that it is an important part of the GCW. For those that believe it should be removed I can not imagine your concept of WAR. Just a couple of points to start off with.

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No one is denying that it is a WAR. However, notice that this is not actually a war, but a GAME about a war. That game involves two very distinct types of gameplay that require different play styles: (1) PVE gameplay and (2) PVP gameplay. Perhaps you enjoy both. Not everyone does. Why should one be forced to engage in a particular STYLE of war (PVP) in order to engage in the other.

I love fighting NPCs and am happy to fight Imperial NPCs. I do it all the time with my CorSec/Neutral pilot when CorSec decides to "send the empire a message" (that's my favorite mission). I blow up lots of TIEs, and sometimes get blown up myself. Yup, it's war. But I never have to worry about other players attacking me in space, which is how I like it. It's not that I couldn't succeed in PVP. It's that I don't like the style of play that PVP entails. I'm not convinced that to engage in the GCW story elements, I shoudl be required to open myself up to a game element that I don't enjoy. I am all happy to have PVP in the game for others, and have some friends who love it... just don't force me to engage in a particular play style to engage all the fun GCW content. Star Wars is about a WAR yes... but it is Star WARS, not Star PVPWars. There is no reason why I should have to open myself up to being shot in the back of the head by an uber-buffed player when hell, I was just killing off some low-HAM imperial NPC probots out in the middle of nowhere.

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1- If a member of your faction(assuming they are overt or NPC, in this case lets assume the one being attacked is imperial) is being attacked they should become attackable by other members of the opposing faction(The rebel should be attackable by other imperials).

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Ah yes the old red herring that "If I see a rebel shooting an Imperial and I am an Imperial I would help, it is in character, etc, etc." That's true but again this is a GAME, and some allowance simply must be made for people not enjoying the PVP playstyle. Now before JTL came out you could just say, "Hey then don't get involved in the GCW, that's the price you pay.

But wait! JTL is out, and guess what? I can attack Imperials all day long in my REBEL starfighter if I want to. And you can't stop me, Mr. Imperial, whether you want to or not. You can't help them, you can't fight me.

So I am not sure I understand. How come it is so unholy sinful to allow a rebel to attack an imperial NPC in the ground game (or vice versa of course) without the players being able to respond, but it's OK in the space game? Hmmm? Answer me that one.

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2- In war a common practice is to set "Traps", in this case consider 1 overt player(bait) to be the trap with the 10 additional covert players being the purpose of the trap. This engenders strategy and general common sense. If you attack someone(overt) in the middle of a starport, then I would imagine it's purely possible that there will be other sympathizers to that particular party in the vicinity and they should be free to choose if they would like to help or not.

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This is easily fixable. If overts attack each other in the starport, it should be possible for coverts to attack them back. Doing so should automatically grant a TEF to the coverts or set them overt or whatever you want. That's fine, this is voluntary PVP. I have no problem with it.

What I do have a problem with is having PVP forced on me to experience more than half the game content. They don't force any PVP on you in space. In fact the one zone where they did for the final non-PVP mission, they changed, because (in space) they realized that forced PVP is a bad thing (tm). Why they can't apply the same logic to the ground game I will honestly never understand.

As I say, the one argument that has "stuck" all these months (years now, I guess, literally, since the game is 1.5 years old) is that if a player attacks a factioned NPC, the other faction members who see it would "in character" respond. Preventing this was billed as a "disaster" of epic proportions and would "totally destroy" the flavor of the game. My my there "must be consquences" to these actions!

But yet the space game allows it and no such disasters have arisen. So you can view JTL as a test bed for what some of us would like to see in the ground game. Make the ground game work exactly like JTL and I would be happy. Sure, if you don faction armor or do other things like pull out faction pets that should turn you overt... sure if you attack other players you should be attackable back. Again I have no problem with that.

What I do ask is that they make it possible to be "just a PVE" type faction member. So you can experience the fun content (faction quests, etc). That's all. I have no interest in PVP. In fact I would happily permanently foreswear non-duel (factioned) PVP forever if it meant in exchange I could have a PVE-only character.

C

Message Edited by Chessack on 01-25-2005 07:59 AM

Message Edited by Chessack on 01-25-2005 07:59 AM