Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Roundtable Discussion: GCW and TEFs
DarthJar
Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:33 am
#599
End the TEF nonesense all together. Make everyone overt all of the time and remove the radar. If you do it will make people watch their surroundings more often.
This constant whining about GTEF this and that has to stop. War isn't fair, it's engaged in to kill the enemy in any fashion possible. However, the only stupid thing is not being able to attack a KNOWN enemy.
If you go overt, you are overt period, no going back.
This constant whining about GTEF this and that has to stop. War isn't fair, it's engaged in to kill the enemy in any fashion possible. However, the only stupid thing is not being able to attack a KNOWN enemy.
If you go overt, you are overt period, no going back.
Cdapolito
Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:27 pm
#600
We need to be able to tell whether a fellow faction member is Overt or not. I know that all the purple named folks are my faction, only show the Star/Eagle if they are Overt.
The easy way to fix GTEF... you cannot join a group with an Overt unless you yourself are Overt and/or joining said group flags you Overt.
The_Real_Che
Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:43 am
#601
The only problem i see with tef's is group tefs. Coverts should get a Tef if they are grouped with overts, that would resolve the group tef issue.
Third faction (neutrals) should be the only ones allowed to opperate in the manner that the group tef works.These players (Hutt faction) should be able to work for either faction, using a brobe system as someone stated earlier. This would ensure that the third faction is actual mercenaries for hire like they're supposed to be. Also (many might not agree), BH's should HAVE to be members of this faction, as BH's are mercs for hire.
Masen
Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:31 pm
#602
HEY TH, TIGGS, WHOEVER!!!!!
Here's an idea. Probably not the most popular...But some thoughts.
One- Bring back the permanent Overt idea. I'd LIKE the idea to be able to RP a ST sometime, just for kicks, and getting booted into my undies just sucks. But add a fix for it. Here's some ideas- some mine, some others posted
When cloning, you are invincible for 5 minutes. Seems long, yes..But some people TAKE that long to load. Give them time to run off somewhere. Address lag before you decide on some useless timer like 60 seconds. Gah. (NPC talk!)
Have a toggle in options, with a command as well. Or make it a default action hotkey- Covert on Death. Let the player pick which they want.
Eliminate the TEF entirely. The hardcore PvPers will whine..but oh well. Can't make all of the people happy all of the time. They'll get used to it. Make it a toggle, just like in Space. As a side benefit- No more GTefs, no more combat medics accidentally teffing themselves when a overt runs by a cantina (it simply won't heal that overt), etc. Want to pvp? Sure, have fun. i'm all for PVPers having their fun. I'magainst PVPers using Gtefs, even setting up known rebels, and then spewing the same tired 'If you don't want to PvP, then don't join a faction' ok mister smart@$$, why then are 80% or more of us paying then, and spoiling your little fun? Hmm? We could all leave, and let you all pvp in one big fragfest. Better idea! No more healing, none of that. no crafting! Let's make Battlegrounds Online! WEEE! Umm. there ARE other people, and other opinions. here's a thought for you- Don't force your playstyles down our throats, and we won't biznatch about yours. Deal? I mean, I got nothing against PvP. heck, I do it now and then- and die every time. But what I don't like, is that to enjoy ANY of the real content, I got to run around overt, and getting ganked 5 times an hour 10 to 1 by raids, just so I can wear a freakin HAT? The thing got NO resists folks...NONE. Even buffed, 1 pvper comes in with his uber comp, buffs, and synthsteak, and I last exactly 2 seconds. And that's usually due to lag because he killed me so fast. Just have a PvP/PvE flag, and don't let PvE players heal PvP ones, or anything.
To fix some of those issues, some other simple ideas. A box that pops up if you try to heal. But instead of saying 'it would not be wise..blahblah.... have it read 'That might not be a wise decision. If you heal that player, you will be forced Overt. You will need to see the nearest faction recruiter and go covert again.' and then cut the transition time to 15 minutes, not 60. So..it's essentially a TEF, letting docs buff overts if they wish, etc.
Sure none of these ideas perfect, but this is a roundtable, and just tossing in some suggestions to help fix some of the GCW issues. Stop forcing playstyles on a majority because of a minority, and you'll see more on both sides more willing to interact more often. Sorry..but the TEF isn't Exciting. Ever. It's annoying. if I want to be overt- I go to a recruiter, and declare. I know I'm gonna die. That's my problem. What I don't like is getting ganked because a Rebel guild chases an Overt Imp through the cantina, and I'm trying to be a decent guy and heal some entertaienrs with an area stim. Covert means you don't want to PvP. How hard is that to understand? Just because I don't want to PvP right then doesn't mean I never do, so the whole 'stay neutral' but doesn't work either, even in theory. because sometimes I do want to slap on ST armor, and get my butt kicked by rebs in composite. Just to remind myself it's STAR WARS Galaxies now and then. 
UglyBovine
Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:20 am
#603
Reason for having a group tef system:
Helping out an overt member of your faction.
Reason for not having a group tef system:
Griefing. That word pretty much sums it up. 1 covert in a group of 6 or 7 overts, not a problem. 1 overt with 12 coverts waiting to get a tef and gank you = not fun and a big problem for the gcw in this game.
So. How about...
Grouping with an overt will turn you overt. You'd obviously have to be warned that you were about to become overt and attackable.
You can't group with an overt member of your faction if he is in combat (so no waiting around with the "Accept the group invite? type /join to accept" message for the fighting to kick off)
Any cloning will turn you covert and remove you from the group. Resusitation will leave you overt and grouped.
To go covert, visit a factional recruiter and wait... Although less than an hour. The hour's wait at the end of being overt is a royal pain in the ~@& if you want to log out after 30 minutes.
What would this do?
Pvp would be more open and flowing. You see an overt member of your faction, you group, now you're overt and can pvp. You don't have to either get a lame tef or travel to a recruiter.
If you lose and die, if you joined the group from covert, you leave the group and are covert again and go about your normal business.
If you survive and want to go back to being covert, leave the group and talk to a recruiter. (or possibly even talk to the recruiter and wait to be auto-booted from the group)
I think (and correct me if there's a massive hole in my thinking here) that would stop the irritation of getting killed by a teffer who never even attacked you or attacking the one overt visible and getting 10 players jumping you, while still allowing people to join in pvp without travelling to a recruiter/base and declaring.
Helping out an overt member of your faction.
Reason for not having a group tef system:
Griefing. That word pretty much sums it up. 1 covert in a group of 6 or 7 overts, not a problem. 1 overt with 12 coverts waiting to get a tef and gank you = not fun and a big problem for the gcw in this game.
So. How about...
Grouping with an overt will turn you overt. You'd obviously have to be warned that you were about to become overt and attackable.
You can't group with an overt member of your faction if he is in combat (so no waiting around with the "Accept the group invite? type /join to accept" message for the fighting to kick off)
Any cloning will turn you covert and remove you from the group. Resusitation will leave you overt and grouped.
To go covert, visit a factional recruiter and wait... Although less than an hour. The hour's wait at the end of being overt is a royal pain in the ~@& if you want to log out after 30 minutes.
What would this do?
Pvp would be more open and flowing. You see an overt member of your faction, you group, now you're overt and can pvp. You don't have to either get a lame tef or travel to a recruiter.
If you lose and die, if you joined the group from covert, you leave the group and are covert again and go about your normal business.
If you survive and want to go back to being covert, leave the group and talk to a recruiter. (or possibly even talk to the recruiter and wait to be auto-booted from the group)
I think (and correct me if there's a massive hole in my thinking here) that would stop the irritation of getting killed by a teffer who never even attacked you or attacking the one overt visible and getting 10 players jumping you, while still allowing people to join in pvp without travelling to a recruiter/base and declaring.
Ashet
Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:58 am
#604
I think that this suggestion leaves itself open to exploitation and griefinng. I can just see a group come in with the group leader behind at a faction base. The group gets into position. The leader goes overt and bing! they make a hit. Then all they have to do to go covert is leave the group and they can walk out of town.
Once you are Overt, I say the only thing that makes you covert is death or a trip to the recruiter. And a 60 minute wait. Pvp should be dangerous and a pain. There should not be any dipping the toes in. If you're in, you're in, and you have a big target on you. That is as it should be.
What I really object to is the Storm Troopers scanning rebels in starports and tagging them as Overt. You can get caught awfully short this way, and in my knowledge there is no comparable involuntary scanning of imperials. Realistic or not, in my galaxy the number of imp PvP'ers far outnumbers the number of reb PvP'ers and this is a virtual death sentence. Imperial players who are covert should have a similar risk. And they may that I am unaware of, in which case I am okay.
Waehecca
Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:22 pm
#605
What your refering to is content. The galaxy is mostly dominated by imperial control. There are no rebel forces controling much, or they would stop being r e b e l s. Then would be an organization... Imperials control the galaxy as it stands in game. Your going to get scanned. I get scanned as an imperial, I just have to stand still.
Maybe your on the wrong side if your that concerned about this peticular issue. If you are on the right side, then don't complain about the content of the game.
BleuDestiny
Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:06 am
#606
nolan007 wrote:
- Change the "switch back to covert" time fromone hour to5 minutes.
- Consider removing group TEFs.
- Put thetime remaining on the mouseover event for the TEF flag (so we can see how much time we have left on our TEF).
Agreed. Absolutely. Not only 5 minutes, the same time that you are unable to pull a vehicle or pet following combat... what is that 60 seconds? If we're done with PvP, we're done, let us move back to other activities rather than sit out the game somewhere for an hour AFTER finding a recruiter... Turns me off to PvP entirely.
BleuDestiny
Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:09 am
#607
The perma-TEF for being searched for contraband is lame. I don't have it now on most of my toons, since they've gone Imp, but still happens from time to time on my merchant, its plain lame. I understand the intent behind it, but that kind of immersion and time wasting I don't need, to force me to travel a planet or two out of my way to find a coordinator is just lame use of game time. A normal TEF, I guess so if you must, but the perma TEF is just lame.
MelissaUK
Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:39 pm
#608
TEF's used to be a good idea but are just abused nowdays.Picture the scene -
Anchorhead in all its glory, the middle of the day and the twin suns are beaming, all around are going about their business. An imperial assault squad headed by 2 dark jedi arrives in town and begin searching the area for rebel insurgents, it's merely seconds before they track down their first terrorist and execute him.
Strangely enough the assault team see the very same person leave the cloner and as he isn't overt they can't do a thing so they proceed to check out the rest of the town. It's quiet.
All of a sudden the same rebel terrorist that was executed just a minute earlier runs out of the cantina guns blazing and dies just as quickly, the crowd look on - powerless to help against the might of the empire(but they doshoutnasty things in spatial and /tells).
With Anchorhead now "pacified" the team move onto their next target. One by one the team board the shuttle until there are just a few left then-
TEF shuttle gank.
TEF can be abused in so many ways and regularly does, just yesterday a guy boasted on the jedi forum how he killed a jedi due to group tef after a bounty mission had failed. There are "clone TEFers" who will literaly clone, attack, die, clone and attack again and again until they wear you down.
The real problem with the tef system is that non declared combatants get first strike, I along with many others would like to see an end to the current TEF system alltogether but I am willing to suggest a modification that may allow it to stay:
All non-declared players with the ability to attack you should have their names flagged in PINK.
Erynder
Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:38 pm
#609
DraxTIO wrote:
Just get rid of the Group TEF. No one likes it.
This has been said 6 months ago..still it's the same..what a shame..
Cuberdude
Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:28 pm
#610
OK let's try that. Just an idea, then you'll manage to find how to grief it.
1-Forget about that TEF thing, let's say it doesn't exist anymore.
2-You wanna fight for the GCW then you are Overt. It allows you to heal, trade, and do everything what you want with other Overt people from your faction.
3-You wanna do something else. Ask for the Covert status to a recruiter OR to your squad leader. It's like a permission to go on holidays
It's given within 5 minutes in normal situation? It's given minimum one hour after your last faction fight. I've had the idea that people who chosed to get very high ranks in military levels (like colonel) couldn't become covert at all except by surrending that specific position within that factionnal army, but maybe it's too heavy
4-Covert works the same as covert right now, except the TEF doesn't exist anymore, remember ?
5-If you want to become Overt again, ask a recruiter or your Squad Leader (see 6d and 6e).
6-Now you are covert... and you need to be back for duty right now because you need to defend a city or whatever, here's the procedure :
6a-I introduce now a specific status to replace the TEF. I call it CTO status (of course it's just my new version of TEF, I use different names for making the break between old TEF and new one more obvious). CTO means Covert to Overt.
6b-I introduce a specific Squad leader ability : "call for voluntary reinforcement"
6c-I introduce a specific command for every Covert. I made out an original name for it : /overt. It asks for a CTO.
6d-First possibility : go to a recruiter and ask for your CTO. Maybe the recruiter won't be camped. Your CTO status starts immediately (see 6g)
6e-To avoid recruiter camping griefing, here's another procedure. You just call for an Overt status by using your command /overt and coming into the "battle field"
6f-If a squad leader of your faction standing is using his "call for voluntary reinforcement" ability, then your CTO status starts immediately (same effect as if you were using the recruiter procedure) (see 6g).
6g-Now the big thing... What is the CTO status ? : it's 15 seconds when you still are Covert (for going far from the recruiter for example or getting to a strategic position) then it's 45 seconds while you "really are CTO" which means the other faction sees you as let's say light red dots on its radar, and you are considered as OVERT except for the single but huge following difference. Within the 45 seconds of "being" CTO you can attack and be attacked BUT you just deal 10% or 20% of normal damages. Damages taken by you are reduced to 10% or 20% of the normal damages. You can't sustain DoTs nor can you inflict DoTs. These 45 second are existing for no one to be too surprised, neither your opponents nor yourself. After those 45 seconds, you're simply OVERT, may the force be with you.
6h-If you are leader of a group when you ask for a CTO, weither you ask it to a recruiter or to a squad leader "calling for voluntary reinforcement", then you ask the CTO for all the COVERT members of your group, if those members are not too far away of course.
6i-If you've became OVERT by using the CTO system, you can not interract with opposite faction bases, but of course you an help though.
OK now you replace every occurence of the "CTO thing" by "TEF" and you got my vision of what factionnal PvP and its TEF could be
That system tries to leave the possibility of preparing ambushes, overwhelming opponent, bringing help, permitting quick situation changes in combat, avoiding "the first who shoots the one who wins" and still leaving an exit and strategic options for outnumbered fighters by a better vision and a litle bit more of time to react.
When fighters see a whole bunch of new dots getting light red on their radar, they will sustain reduced damages, but they still have to make choices. They have 45 seconds to decide of what to do before situation gets nasty. But maybe they have under covert reinforcment themself, ready to come. Just one ready leader of a group asks for the CTO and new friendly Dots will soon start to appear from every house in the city.
If you don't like it, please don't flame me too hard, I was just trying...
There is still one big problem in that. I have no idea what to do with players that fight factionnal NPCs and just don't want to be involved in PvP. At all :/
Thanks for comments.
1-Forget about that TEF thing, let's say it doesn't exist anymore.
2-You wanna fight for the GCW then you are Overt. It allows you to heal, trade, and do everything what you want with other Overt people from your faction.
3-You wanna do something else. Ask for the Covert status to a recruiter OR to your squad leader. It's like a permission to go on holidays
It's given within 5 minutes in normal situation? It's given minimum one hour after your last faction fight. I've had the idea that people who chosed to get very high ranks in military levels (like colonel) couldn't become covert at all except by surrending that specific position within that factionnal army, but maybe it's too heavy 4-Covert works the same as covert right now, except the TEF doesn't exist anymore, remember ?
5-If you want to become Overt again, ask a recruiter or your Squad Leader (see 6d and 6e).
6-Now you are covert... and you need to be back for duty right now because you need to defend a city or whatever, here's the procedure :
6a-I introduce now a specific status to replace the TEF. I call it CTO status (of course it's just my new version of TEF, I use different names for making the break between old TEF and new one more obvious). CTO means Covert to Overt.
6b-I introduce a specific Squad leader ability : "call for voluntary reinforcement"
6c-I introduce a specific command for every Covert. I made out an original name for it : /overt. It asks for a CTO.
6d-First possibility : go to a recruiter and ask for your CTO. Maybe the recruiter won't be camped. Your CTO status starts immediately (see 6g)
6e-To avoid recruiter camping griefing, here's another procedure. You just call for an Overt status by using your command /overt and coming into the "battle field"
6f-If a squad leader of your faction standing is using his "call for voluntary reinforcement" ability, then your CTO status starts immediately (same effect as if you were using the recruiter procedure) (see 6g).
6g-Now the big thing... What is the CTO status ? : it's 15 seconds when you still are Covert (for going far from the recruiter for example or getting to a strategic position) then it's 45 seconds while you "really are CTO" which means the other faction sees you as let's say light red dots on its radar, and you are considered as OVERT except for the single but huge following difference. Within the 45 seconds of "being" CTO you can attack and be attacked BUT you just deal 10% or 20% of normal damages. Damages taken by you are reduced to 10% or 20% of the normal damages. You can't sustain DoTs nor can you inflict DoTs. These 45 second are existing for no one to be too surprised, neither your opponents nor yourself. After those 45 seconds, you're simply OVERT, may the force be with you.
6h-If you are leader of a group when you ask for a CTO, weither you ask it to a recruiter or to a squad leader "calling for voluntary reinforcement", then you ask the CTO for all the COVERT members of your group, if those members are not too far away of course.
6i-If you've became OVERT by using the CTO system, you can not interract with opposite faction bases, but of course you an help though.
OK now you replace every occurence of the "CTO thing" by "TEF" and you got my vision of what factionnal PvP and its TEF could be
That system tries to leave the possibility of preparing ambushes, overwhelming opponent, bringing help, permitting quick situation changes in combat, avoiding "the first who shoots the one who wins" and still leaving an exit and strategic options for outnumbered fighters by a better vision and a litle bit more of time to react.
When fighters see a whole bunch of new dots getting light red on their radar, they will sustain reduced damages, but they still have to make choices. They have 45 seconds to decide of what to do before situation gets nasty. But maybe they have under covert reinforcment themself, ready to come. Just one ready leader of a group asks for the CTO and new friendly Dots will soon start to appear from every house in the city.
If you don't like it, please don't flame me too hard, I was just trying...
There is still one big problem in that. I have no idea what to do with players that fight factionnal NPCs and just don't want to be involved in PvP. At all :/
Thanks for comments.
stusher
Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:00 am
#611
has there been a post on here that has actually said they like the current tef system?