Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Publish 7: Major Features
Daker-Naritus
Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:54 pm
#600
SWG-Runesabre wrote:
I appreciate all your great feedback so far. Thunderheart is out on vacation which is why you are not seeing a lot of Dev responses on this thread in the last few days. I did want to take a little time to update you on what we have decided in regards to changes to removing the camp restriction for calling pets, droids, mounts and vehicles. We have decided to alter our changes so that calling a pet, mount, vehicle or droid will work like normal without the new time delays when called from a Scout camp or inside a city. Effectively, this means calling a pet, droid, mount or vehicle will work the same in Publish 7 as it currently does when called from a Scout camp or city. When calling outside a Scout camp or city, the new changes will apply.
Message Edited by SWG-Runesabre on 02-25-2004 02:47 PM
That's great, but can we get the delay taken away from storing vehicles? There is no reason to keep people from instantaneously storing their vehicles, and the delay rule only leads to griefing (ex: Players attacking others bikes before or after fighting the owner just to be asses).
I want to be able to store my bike when I get someplace instead of having to babysit it for a full minute while it goes away. If you want to put a long delay on me calling the vehicle...fine. PLEASE just let me store it when I get there without a delay.
Ekhben
Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:16 pm
#601
SWG-Runesabre wrote:
I, in return, appreciate you taking our concerns into account. However, I feel this falls short of the mark.
We (the Creature Handlers mostly, later aided by vehicle owners) initially campaigned to have the requirement for campsites removed. The reasons given for the campsite requirement were to provide a role for Scouts, and to prevent griefing.
We quickly pointed out that pets cannot be called during combat, nor stored immediately after combat, which were the grief types mentioned. I would also like to point out here that many duels and a good amount of PvP take place in cities, where there are currently no calling restrictions beyond those two.
Further, every single Creature Handler is also at least a 4/0/4/0 Scout. I myself was a Master Scout for a time, before I realised that traps had very little utility, and a basic campsite granted at Novice Scout was only superficially different from the camp granted at Novice Ranger. I miss neither the more advanced camps nor the traps, but I do miss that little bit of extra Creature Knowledge that told me CL
A good many other combatants also have at least some Scout. The Terrain Negotiation line, while hugely diminished with the advent of vehicles, still has some benefits. Bounty Hunters are required to be Master Scouts, as are Rangers. Bio-Engineers also have a Scout requirement.
All in all, one never hears, nor expects to hear, someone barking for a Scout to join their group. Chances are very good at least one group member already has some Scout skills, and not because of basic camps. In fact, the chances of more than one member having Scout is so good that harvesting was changed (and crippled for solo CHers!) to accomodate this.
This means that the two reasons given by you, the Devs, were apparently invalid. Around this time, Holocron dropped in and agreed that the original reasons for the camp calling requirement were no longer true.
Now, the mind boggles. You removed the requirement, but you introduced two new delays. The first is a sixty second delay after combat. Have you travelled across one of the adventure planets of late? I hear the combat music on average three times in a 1000m trip to a mission, due to red dots spawning right on top of me as the server valiantly tries to keep up with my travel rate. That means I will usually be within that 60 second timer when I arrive at my destination, probably at the high end of it.
I suspect you introduced this new delay to slow down the rate at which people do missions, by forcing them to wait 60 seconds after each mission before recalling their vehicle. Of course, it's easy enough to just keep the vehicle out as you fight, and ignore that delay, and this approach tries to mask the symptom of too frequent missions, not the cause.
On top of that, you also introduced a 30 second lag on the call itself. This one, I simply cannot fathom. I think of all the places something gets called, and add 30 seconds of doing nothing but hating this change.
At this point, you get a lot of angry responses. No surprise there, the proposed changes are the gaming equivalent of a kick in the groin. Your response is to reallow instant calling in cities and camps, but you haven't clarified if the additional sixty second timesink is affected by cities and camps. Regardless, where it leaves us Creature Handlers is right back where we started: we have a mindless obstruction to us accessing our profession. We either craft and place camps while the other group members shrug and do the mission without us, or we twiddle our thumbs for 30 seconds while the other group members shrug and do the mission without us.
So, while I appreciate that you're acknowledging that we're concerned, I do not feel that you're addressing our concerns. You've wasted developer time by introducing new delays that simply obstruct gameplay, and you'll be cumulatively wasting months of player time. Please, rethink.
I appreciate all your great feedback so far. Thunderheart is out on vacation which is why you are not seeing a lot of Dev responses on this thread in the last few days. I did want to take a little time to update you on what we have decided in regards to changes to removing the camp restriction for calling pets, droids, mounts and vehicles. We have decided to alter our changes so that calling a pet, mount, vehicle or droid will work like normal without the new time delays when called from a Scout camp or inside a city. Effectively, this means calling a pet, droid, mount or vehicle will work the same in Publish 7 as it currently does when called from a Scout camp or city. When calling outside a Scout camp or city, the new changes will apply.
I, in return, appreciate you taking our concerns into account. However, I feel this falls short of the mark.
We (the Creature Handlers mostly, later aided by vehicle owners) initially campaigned to have the requirement for campsites removed. The reasons given for the campsite requirement were to provide a role for Scouts, and to prevent griefing.
We quickly pointed out that pets cannot be called during combat, nor stored immediately after combat, which were the grief types mentioned. I would also like to point out here that many duels and a good amount of PvP take place in cities, where there are currently no calling restrictions beyond those two.
Further, every single Creature Handler is also at least a 4/0/4/0 Scout. I myself was a Master Scout for a time, before I realised that traps had very little utility, and a basic campsite granted at Novice Scout was only superficially different from the camp granted at Novice Ranger. I miss neither the more advanced camps nor the traps, but I do miss that little bit of extra Creature Knowledge that told me CL
A good many other combatants also have at least some Scout. The Terrain Negotiation line, while hugely diminished with the advent of vehicles, still has some benefits. Bounty Hunters are required to be Master Scouts, as are Rangers. Bio-Engineers also have a Scout requirement.
All in all, one never hears, nor expects to hear, someone barking for a Scout to join their group. Chances are very good at least one group member already has some Scout skills, and not because of basic camps. In fact, the chances of more than one member having Scout is so good that harvesting was changed (and crippled for solo CHers!) to accomodate this.
This means that the two reasons given by you, the Devs, were apparently invalid. Around this time, Holocron dropped in and agreed that the original reasons for the camp calling requirement were no longer true.
Now, the mind boggles. You removed the requirement, but you introduced two new delays. The first is a sixty second delay after combat. Have you travelled across one of the adventure planets of late? I hear the combat music on average three times in a 1000m trip to a mission, due to red dots spawning right on top of me as the server valiantly tries to keep up with my travel rate. That means I will usually be within that 60 second timer when I arrive at my destination, probably at the high end of it.
I suspect you introduced this new delay to slow down the rate at which people do missions, by forcing them to wait 60 seconds after each mission before recalling their vehicle. Of course, it's easy enough to just keep the vehicle out as you fight, and ignore that delay, and this approach tries to mask the symptom of too frequent missions, not the cause.
On top of that, you also introduced a 30 second lag on the call itself. This one, I simply cannot fathom. I think of all the places something gets called, and add 30 seconds of doing nothing but hating this change.
At this point, you get a lot of angry responses. No surprise there, the proposed changes are the gaming equivalent of a kick in the groin. Your response is to reallow instant calling in cities and camps, but you haven't clarified if the additional sixty second timesink is affected by cities and camps. Regardless, where it leaves us Creature Handlers is right back where we started: we have a mindless obstruction to us accessing our profession. We either craft and place camps while the other group members shrug and do the mission without us, or we twiddle our thumbs for 30 seconds while the other group members shrug and do the mission without us.
So, while I appreciate that you're acknowledging that we're concerned, I do not feel that you're addressing our concerns. You've wasted developer time by introducing new delays that simply obstruct gameplay, and you'll be cumulatively wasting months of player time. Please, rethink.
tarkus1268
Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:25 pm
#602
SWG-Runesabre wrote:
I appreciate all your great feedback so far. Thunderheart is out on vacation which is why you are not seeing a lot of Dev responses on this thread in the last few days. I did want to take a little time to update you on what we have decided in regards to changes to removing the camp restriction for calling pets, droids, mounts and vehicles. We have decided to alter our changes so that calling a pet, mount, vehicle or droid will work like normal without the new time delays when called from a Scout camp or inside a city. Effectively, this means calling a pet, droid, mount or vehicle will work the same in Publish 7 as it currently does when called from a Scout camp or city. When calling outside a Scout camp or city, the new changes will apply.
Message Edited by SWG-Runesabre on 02-25-2004 02:47 PM
It's nice to see common sense prevail.
BrandonIT
Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:28 pm
#603
TechBoss wrote:
Runesabre, thanks for the answer to on of the more trivial questions.
When are you or the DEVs going to address all the other changes that are going into the patch? I want to see the straight-up answers to these questions:
- Why are you nerfing the probot? It is clearly stated that droids will be equivalent to creature level 10, which is 1100 HAM, no armor and virtually no resists.
- Why is warcry being nerfed?
- Will panic shot be effected the same way warcry is?
- What is the number value of the hard cap on defense mods?
- What defense mods are actually affected?
- Why is crafting being nerfed?
- How will the critical errors on crafting be implemented? Lowering critical failures from novice to master is not a benefit if the critical failure rate is increased at the novice level and decreases to the current level at master.
I would like answers to all these questions as well, please. And I would like to add:
8. When calling a vehicle or pet with the 30-second delay, where will the vehicle/pet appear after 30 seconds? Where I am or where I initiated the CALL?
pocosong
Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:30 pm
#604
Thank you for not adding that delay onto everything! Now alls you have to do is shorten the wait between shuttles to at least 5 minutes, and I'll feel like I won't be waisting my real life money by waisting my time waiting for shuttles.
TrandoshanDroidTech
Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:35 pm
#605
BrandonIT wrote:
8. When calling a vehicle or pet with the 30-second delay, where will the vehicle/pet appear after 30 seconds? Where I am or where I initiated the CALL?
Thats a very good question that needs to be answered because if the vehnichle/pet appears where you called it after 30 seconds, there will be flaming of the Devs and whats the point of a 30 second delay if it's going to appear when you called it and if your'e moving, you'll be more than 500m away.
Noidd
Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:39 pm
#606
I agree with the shuttle wait time. I waited nearly 2 hours just for shuttles moving all of my items and house from Dantooine to Naboo, I only get 3 hours to play so my playing time was basically wasted. Five minutes is a good wait time and I wouldn't mind it if this change was implemented.
Thanks
neinnunb
Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:44 pm
#607
Beautiful!
SWG-Runesabre wrote:
I appreciate all your great feedback so far. Thunderheart is out on vacation which is why you are not seeing a lot of Dev responses on this thread in the last few days. I did want to take a little time to update you on what we have decided in regards to changes to removing the camp restriction for calling pets, droids, mounts and vehicles. We have decided to alter our changes so that calling a pet, mount, vehicle or droid will work like normal without the new time delays when called from a Scout camp or inside a city. Effectively, this means calling a pet, droid, mount or vehicle will work the same in Publish 7 as it currently does when called from a Scout camp or city. When calling outside a Scout camp or city, the new changes will apply.
Message Edited by SWG-Runesabre on 02-25-2004 02:47 PM
Okele
Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:45 pm
#608
hrm, havent read through the whole thread, but TH already on vacation? Didnt he just start like 7 months ago? Kinda wierd.
SWG-Runesabre wrote:
I appreciate all your great feedback so far. Thunderheart is out on vacation which is why you are not seeing a lot of Dev responses on this thread in the last few days. I did want to take a little time to update you on what we have decided in regards to changes to removing the camp restriction for calling pets, droids, mounts and vehicles. We have decided to alter our changes so that calling a pet, mount, vehicle or droid will work like normal without the new time delays when called from a Scout camp or inside a city. Effectively, this means calling a pet, droid, mount or vehicle will work the same in Publish 7 as it currently does when called from a Scout camp or city. When calling outside a Scout camp or city, the new changes will apply.
Message Edited by SWG-Runesabre on 02-25-2004 02:47 PM
TygerBlueEyes
Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:48 pm
#609
The delay on the spawn of the P/V/M I'm not really happy with. Can it be shorten? The other delays I'm ok with. It's just the Call spawn I think is going drive me nutts.
humberton
Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:49 pm
#610
SWG-Runesabre wrote:I appreciate all your great feedback so far. Thunderheart is out on vacation which is why you are not seeing a lot of Dev responses on this thread in the last few days. I did want to take a little time to update you on what we have decided in regards to changes to removing the camp restriction for calling pets, droids, mounts and vehicles. We have decided to alter our changes so that calling a pet, mount, vehicle or droid will work like normal without the new time delays when called from a Scout camp or inside a city. Effectively, this means calling a pet, droid, mount or vehicle will work the same in Publish 7 as it currently does when called from a Scout camp or city. When calling outside a Scout camp or city, the new changes will apply.Message Edited by SWG-Runesabre on 02-25-2004 02:47 PM
Well Crap.
So a AT-ST owner can still stand by the space port overt, and when he's attacked "Insta pull" his pet?
Was kind of looking forward to that being fixed.
Nightghaunt666
Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:57 pm
#611
I don’t know if anyone else is interested in this but I’d like to know a little more about the upcoming player city garages. Will these be player structures like cantinas, med centers, and theaters or just another placeable item like a garden? I personally would like it to be a player structure so my master artisan can have a garage to go along with his speeder shop. This leads into my next question, if the garages are player structures will they have internal areas to place things like the other player structures? On the SWG site where it shows the garage in the player city structures it has a small blueprint like the rest of the buildings and it shows an internal area. Right now that area is visible in the garages but is inaccessible due to an invisible wall that has a slight white glow to it. I’d like to see the ability to set up a garage and use this area to have my speeders for sale there. Personally I think it would be cool to have these shops around and have them be able to compete with repair costs and available services. Have the NPC garages have a repair price that is a little high to give room for the PC garages to set lower prices and compete, with a minimum price of course, that way you don’t have someone setting up a garage for their guild and then not charging for repairs. Someone posted on another thread a good idea and I agree with it that they should also be placeable by master artisans anywhere, not just in player cities. The idea of having that lone shop out in the middle of nowhere, the “last chance gas”, is just to cool not to have. Why should entertainers and doctors be the only ones to get their own places of business? Does anyone else agree with me? If so please post and let them know just how much you’d like to see it! Well dev’s I hope you’ve read this and will post a reply cause I’d really like to know if I will be able to do this. Thanks for your time.