Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one? (II)
CreoVex
Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:33 am
#560
JustG wrote:
(Now with 75% more info!)
There are many stages in the path to becoming a Jedi...
The first among them is becoming Force Sensitive. Once you become Force Sensitive you can choose to continue on the path to becoming a Jedi or not. The path to becoming a Jedi will be a long and dangerous one.
Publish 10 is focussing largely on the path FROM Force Sensitive TO becoming a Jedi... this is going to be very quest and story-driven, and will take some effort and time on the part of the players. This path will be directed, and you will know how to get through, but it will also contain an element of mystery.
My question has to do with the step before all of this... with how you actually become Force Sensitive.
The question to continue discussing is this:
Should the method of becoming Force Sensitive (not the path from Force Sensitivity to Jedi) be a mysterious, unknown mechanic orone that is visible and known to everyone?
Thanks for the continued feedback!!
{Publish 10 is focussing largely on the path FROM Force Sensitive TO becoming a Jedi... this is going to be very quest and story-driven, and will take some effort and time on the part of the players. This path will be directed, and you will know how to get through, but it will also contain an element of mystery.} = Lots of crap... you are just going to be pissing off the casual player even more by this mystery concept. Originally when you guys talked back in beta about Jedi being rare I wanted one, but could admire the fact that you guys where going to limit the number and give them to only the most dedicated players and that fact was acceptable and made not having a Jedi not such a bad thing. Saddly, this game has already turned into STAR WARS:Jedi Vs. Non-Jedi, its not like limiting the numbers now is going to fix the situation nor does it show the Non-Jedis that you really care when youput 2Jedipublishes (mind you, the profession that hasn't been in for a year like the 32 others) ahead of theCombat Balance, GalacticCivil War, and individual profession fixed.
Right now, the only people left without a Jedi fit into 3 categories:
1) New Player
2) Casual Player
3) Average to Hardcore Player who didn't luck out with a low number unlock and got screwed by Publish 9
BELOW WAS COPIED FROM THE EARLIER THREAD:
Well the problem is you made it a known path before for the grinders who made the cut so your going to have to have a similiar process for those who didn't. Unless you feel comfortable telling the guy that got 20 something professions donethat it may be another 6 months or so before he stumbles on starting his Force Sensitive tests because you guys changed your mind again and since he wasn't lucky enough to unlock originally in 5, or under 10 or under 20 or so on.
In every game people always want to achieve the top status. In EQ it was getting to level 50 first back in the day and since this game doesn't do levels per say, getting a FS character is the equivalent. No matter what you guys think, the majority of the people who play want to unlock/play a jedi and to keep the money coming you almost have to guarentee over time that they do. This concept of stalling is not going to work because someone always finds the quickest method and posts it and a thousand more peopel will use that method before you change it again.
MY SUGGESTION:
Stop looking at ways to prevent people from getting a Jedi and start looking at ways to reduce the Jedi exposure or detract from the glory of being a Jedi. With this game I would have made some internal calculations like you are doing with the 1 year anniversary gifts. Jedis should have been awarded for say 8 months of gameplayand a certain amount of "Gameplay XP" attained and that would have given them to the players who truely showed dedication.
And now, I would say hurry up on that combat balance. Make us want to play the other professions over Jedi. Don't just assume the Force Sensitive enhancements are going to be the solution for a professions like BH or what not. Make the professions complete. Don't just promise good things on the combat balance, make them happen.
LIST OF THINGS TO DO:
- Fix the professions to be worthy of playing. (Ranger = Scout ++, Smuggler = Slice and wha?, Bounty Hunter = too many bugs..., Combat Profession Balancing....)
- Reintroduce the storyline project... I remember the Cries series. I found it fun, what happened to the on going stories???? If you are having trouble coming up with content ask the community to submit storylines and what not and pick some.
- GCW: Stop saying its coming and get it done. And make it so that we want to be involved, not "this is another place for different loot" but rather getting different factional ranks via GCW battles would give you bonuses like "NPC Personnel or what not that you can pull out and command in other GCW battles". Also, balance it already, these AT-ST for imps and Nothing for Rebels doesn't seem to balance at all.
SIDE NOTE: If we had more GCW elements in the game and limited the Jedi interaction in those, I bet you would see some serious decrease in Jedi visability. Battle at Hoth? Or all kinds of different events that do not allow Jedi "Knight" character involvement. "I didn't see a lightsaber in the treaches at Hoth did you?"
- Last but not least, step away from your desk, get some water, and clear your mind and stop listening to all the whines of the Jedi.
SIDE NOTE: JEDI BREAKDOWN
- Jedi Initiate = Basic Profession (aka = equal to master marksman/brawler)
SIDE NOTE: JEDI BREAKDOWN
- Jedi Initiate = Basic Profession (aka = equal to master marksman/brawler)
- Jedi Knight = Elite Hybrid Profession(aka Master Bounty Hunter/ Commando)
STOP WITH THE UBER THINKING UNTIL JEDI MASTER (if you attain master than you should be uber)
Notes:
Mace Windu (Jedi Master) killed Jango Fett (Master Bounty Hunter), not Kenobi (Jedi Knight)
Mace Windu (Jedi Master) killed Jango Fett (Master Bounty Hunter), not Kenobi (Jedi Knight)
A bunch of droids took out alot of Jedi Knights/Masters, so a group of 15 players should be able to killJedi Knights without too many individuals lost.
Any chance we can get some Kilimahir or whatever the creature was called in the Timothy Zane novels that disrupted force use? And make it available to MCH?
Anyways, thats it. I usually get my threads deleted anyway...
-NightRaven (ingame)
-NightRaven (ingame)
TheCursedFox
Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:45 am
#561
It should be known. Players are going to figure it out sooner or later, let it be known and save us the frustration. You've already had people get to jedi with the path already known, it was just guessing which professions. It would be unfair to change it now.
Wulfman_GA
Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:47 am
#562
I vote for unknow and mysterious as this is what the Jedi (especially at the time the game takes place) should be. However, as many people want to go this path there might be a way to combine the mysterious with the known ...
For example, there could be a (or several) known start point and skill requirments for the first quest, however, the quest would be fully random and different for each person.
Quest should be difficult and complex and shoudl require a good mix of skills (not only fighting). I could also see that searching for specific items (without having a waypoint highlighting the exact location) would be good. (i.e. you get a wayoint to ruins, but you have to actually search different things in it to find an item or another part of the puzzle).
Just a few thoughts from me ...
wulfman
WookieOgre
Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:48 am
#563
TH and JustG, I do believe if you make this a mysterious and very long path......it still gives you the end result of Holo-grinding. Instead of playing the game players will be doing quests for the next 6 months to a year.
Here is my back ground experience in the game. I've been holo-grinding for 7 months now, yes slow but 95% of my play time is geared towards mastering professions (I stand at 25). I have yet to open, I never interact with my guild unless I need supplies or help with mastering a profession, and I'm starting to hate logging in the more I see posts like "Just opened on 17 professions" on the Jedi forum.
Taking the holo-grinding out is good.....there is no doubt about that. But replacing it with something mysterious that makes players even more frustrated not knowing what to do will only make them do one of two things. Quit the game out of frustration or basicly not "play" the game due to finding some hidden thing you must do to find get to the next level of becoming force power enabled. What is different from right now? "Fun" is seeing the progression and knowing when your going to finish, if you make it mysterious and hard how is that fun?
You can make the road to Jedi fun and exciting, just don't make it "wonder around endlessly" till I just happen to talk to the right NPC on X day on X time. I've quit playing games that do that, I like to see progression not standing around trying to think of what to do next. That is not fun and players that complained about grinding to open will soon find out that way was much better then not knowing what to do.
btw, please tell me I'm getting very good credit in the new system for all my hologrinding.
Here is my back ground experience in the game. I've been holo-grinding for 7 months now, yes slow but 95% of my play time is geared towards mastering professions (I stand at 25). I have yet to open, I never interact with my guild unless I need supplies or help with mastering a profession, and I'm starting to hate logging in the more I see posts like "Just opened on 17 professions" on the Jedi forum.
Taking the holo-grinding out is good.....there is no doubt about that. But replacing it with something mysterious that makes players even more frustrated not knowing what to do will only make them do one of two things. Quit the game out of frustration or basicly not "play" the game due to finding some hidden thing you must do to find get to the next level of becoming force power enabled. What is different from right now? "Fun" is seeing the progression and knowing when your going to finish, if you make it mysterious and hard how is that fun?
You can make the road to Jedi fun and exciting, just don't make it "wonder around endlessly" till I just happen to talk to the right NPC on X day on X time. I've quit playing games that do that, I like to see progression not standing around trying to think of what to do next. That is not fun and players that complained about grinding to open will soon find out that way was much better then not knowing what to do.
btw, please tell me I'm getting very good credit in the new system for all my hologrinding.
RebelKnight
Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:51 am
#565
I can tell you right now, if the way to force sensitivity isn't known I will quit. Quite frankly I'm bored. I've been holding off on quiting until publish 10 to see how the Jedi stuff pans out. If I don't know how to do it then it isn't worth my time sticking around.
That isn't a threat or anything, and others probably don't feel that way. But it is my situation and I'm probably not alone.
Good luck in your decision!
That isn't a threat or anything, and others probably don't feel that way. But it is my situation and I'm probably not alone.
Good luck in your decision!
Saarkai
Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:52 am
#566
Please don't make it a big ole pain in the butt to become force sensitive. Especially if it's going to be needed in order to be competitive in either PvP or Crafting.
Shimond
Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:56 am
#567
So does this mean, a week or two after Publish 9 has been released, you guys don't even have a design plan up for the system that is going to replace hologrinding next patch?
I'm guessing this means Publish 10 is gonna be two or more months away.
As far as the question, no I think the path to Force Sensitivity should be known as jedi are quickly becoming powerful and even necessary in the GCW (my endgame) and we need to have everyone get a fair shot at getting their jedi as quickly as they wish (if they wish at all).
Enough with the mystery, there is no mystery in the game and trying to add some in is just going to piss off all the people who haven't unlocked yet every time they see a jedi run by.
-Shi
I'm guessing this means Publish 10 is gonna be two or more months away.
As far as the question, no I think the path to Force Sensitivity should be known as jedi are quickly becoming powerful and even necessary in the GCW (my endgame) and we need to have everyone get a fair shot at getting their jedi as quickly as they wish (if they wish at all).
Enough with the mystery, there is no mystery in the game and trying to add some in is just going to piss off all the people who haven't unlocked yet every time they see a jedi run by.
-Shi
Message Edited by Shimond on 07-12-2004 10:58 AM
KurtVogner
Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:00 am
#568
If you try to hide it we will find it and you would just be waisting time.
just make it a clear path that is diffucult to an extreme BUT NO CKECKLISTS!
just make it a clear path that is diffucult to an extreme BUT NO CKECKLISTS!
Gron_DM
Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:05 am
#569
known, as if you try to make it mysterious it will be all over the forums sooner or later....but please have a nice story to go with it and maybe offer different versions of the quests with the same FS endgoal.
Zerofun
Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:08 am
#570
Mystery this is a must. No matter what you morons say about letting this path be known, the only way to keep the pop down is to make it a mystery. And dont gimmie this bs about that there are already alot now "so thats out the window" because you only have a few hundred on each server and if you let it be known that will expand by 10x. Also dont gimmie that other bs about once the path is known then it will not matter anymore, well I say after a handful figure out the system then we change it again. Period
Spence_Ray
Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:10 am
#571
TheNarcis wrote:
It shouldnt be a mystery like the old way. That just frustrates too many people.
But have it so it tells you something new to do each quest after you complete the previous one. And have it all random order for different people so the "walkthrough" isnt on the web.
Also dont make it uber harder now, because it wouldnt be fair for people that have been playing since beta and have not unlocked. It should be no harder than it has always been.
I agree. I would like for it to be challenging but not too hard and I would like for it to be solo based missions or quests. It shouldn't take a guild to unlock one persons FS slot. It should also be fairly easy to find out. If you want to bring holos back into it have them tell you your next quest.
Cudayn
Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:16 am
#572
I want it to be a known path, but have very interesting quests and puzzles. I didn't do the hologrind because I didn't feel "right" getting a Jedi that way. But with so many people already Jedi, to force those of us who have waited to do the quests to become Jedi, would be unfair to have it hidden again.
Just my 2 creds..
Dunk Wunklin (x2)
Durney Kova
Lucius Wunklin