Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Crafting Critical Failure Rates

Okin_Sin
Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:57 am
#547

Being a Master Doc, using all the best resources that the galaxy can offer me, doing my experimentation in a Resarch Center, I still am lucky to have 1 out of 5 enhance packs made without some kind of bad crafting result. Man I love being a doc, but this has made me want to quit more then anythign. I have time were I had to pay 100c/u for resouces to make a nice enhance pack, only to find that it took 6 of these just to make one acceptable one. If you are usuing top of the line stuff, your a doc, you should not be getting failure, moderate success, failure, success, failre over and over and over. I have done other crafting professions, and imho the Doc failure rate is WAY higher then any other proffesion by far.
Dancergrl
Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:25 pm
#548

Am I losing my mind? (that's rhetorical, don't answer it please)

Last night I was trying to assemble a Strength enhance pack (I'm a Master Doc, top of the line crafting tool and crafting station, good quality ingredients) and I was on my 4th or 5th attempt at getting all the way through the experimentation with nothing less than a great result.

Point number one here: Assemble plus 3 or 4 experimentation attempts = 4 or 5 chances per item to screw it up. More chances for people who experiment one or two points at a time. I go for broke, 'cause it saves me time and anguish. If any of those 4 or 5 die rolls is less than great, its garbage. I can't sell the buffs (people have expectations of master doc buffs), so the resources and advanced subcomponents are essentially wasted.

Point number two: Each assemble attempt, I'm using the same Avian and Gas resources and subs from the same crates. Most of the assemblies are great starting me off with a base of 376 prior to experimentation. Lo and behold I roll up an amazing success, only to see a base that was significantly less then all of my earlier great successes, somewhere in the 250 range (I was so shocked I forgot to write it down. D'oh!) What the heck is up with that?

Overall, I'd have to say that my crit fails on assembly aren't unreasonable (the amazing botch above excluded). The problem, or the percieved problem comes from experimentation. Does it fail at a higher percentage or is it just that we have to make so many more experimentation attempts that we see those failures more often?

For those of us whose crafting success hinges on high experimentation values, it certainly seems like one out of every 4 or 5 maybe doesn't make the final cut because of one bad roll through the process. Perhaps I'll buckle down with my CM med crafting grinding and track my results.

Whoo boy, I need to get out more.



-Liselle & Ikesmi, Shadowfire
-Lil'ith & LIanie, Bria
-Ibis & Solana, Kettemoor
GoodToTheTouch
Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:38 am
#549

what about a "careful craft" ability that takes a LONG time, like hours or a day, but has a like .001% of failure or some thing, and requires lots of tools that are complicated like the gun itself..... ??????? be like "blue printing" for an engine
Thunderheart
Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:49 pm
#550






WarlordRhawn wrote:

Out of three suits made I had 17 critical failures and i believe its an error in the city specialization Research center. I say this because i moved mybase of operations out of this area and since then I have made 5 suits with 4 critical errors which in my opinion is much more reasonable. Again this isn't firm data but I am staying out of towns now to make armor.


Natanial Storm




17 critical failures is insanely high. Something sounds suspect there. If you get a chance, it would be helpful if you could post the details of your experiences in the In Test Crafting Thread. Thanks.







Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
Community Relations Manager
LLJK_Griz
Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:41 pm
#551






Thunderheart wrote:





WarlordRhawn wrote:

Out of three suits made I had 17 critical failures and i believe its an error in the city specialization Research center. I say this because i moved mybase of operations out of this area and since then I have made 5 suits with 4 critical errors which in my opinion is much more reasonable. Again this isn't firm data but I am staying out of towns now to make armor.


Natanial Storm





17 critical failures is insanely high. Something sounds suspect there. If you get a chance, it would be helpful if you could post the details of your experiences in the In Test Crafting Thread. Thanks.





It's the random number generator, like we've all been saying since release.


If crit fail is supposed to be a flat 5% chance, then I should not be getting all these strings of 2-4 consecutive crit fails. If experimentation results are supposed to be random, then I should not be getting identical experiment results (great, great, moderate, always in the same order with the same stats) on ten or more consecutive crafting attempts.



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MonroeThanes
Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:06 pm
#552

anyone but me notice that when you critical fail on the first experimentation attempt you always get an amazing right after that? but the critical fail takes the value to 0% so the amazing doesnt do anything after that. hardly random



I'm Monroe Thanes and I approve of this message.
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duncje
Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:50 pm
#553






MonroeThanes wrote:
anyone but me notice that when you critical fail on the first experimentation attempt you always get an amazing right after that? but the critical fail takes the value to 0% so the amazing doesnt do anything after that. hardly random




Actually, anytime you experiment on a 0% value, you will get an "amazing success". The game gets confused by having to take a percentage of 0, I believe.




Beebo
Master Droid Engineer | Shipwright | Master Artisan
Crazy Beebo's Discount Droids & Ships {-1075 -2924} Bestine, Tatooine

Orthaanc
Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:00 am
#554

Interesting thing about a flat roll though is that there is a chance that you will roll crit 17 times in a row. Does it seem random? No. Is it? Yes.


There is absolutely nothing in a roll which will affect the following roll. As far as I know. Now I know that some other games have instituted a 3 fails = a success system in which if you for instance, miss 3 times in a row, the Random Number Generator is weighted completely towards success for your next roll.



Orthaanc Isengard / Master Weaponsmith / Ahazi
Philomorph
Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:52 am
#555

They need to invest in one of those true random number generators that use a webcam aimed at a lava lamp to generate the seeds. Now those are some really random numbers because there's an analog component. Any random generator in a computer isn't random, it's just difficult to predict.



----

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ValleyJedi
Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:05 am
#556

As a Master Artisan, I made a crafting tool for a friend and it took me 5 tries to get it made. I had 2 failures on assembly and 2 crit fails on experimentation. Any time someone wants me to make something, I tell them to bring extras of any resource/components that I don't have in stock. I am now a Master Armorsmith and it still hasn't gotten better.
meroc
Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:29 am
#557

I had a string of fails tonight.


I was trying to make a broad-spectrumnutrient schematic and got a few "greats", then 3 "fails" in a row,another "great" and then another "fail". This seems less than random and a lot more than 5%, but then it always seems to save them up so it hit's you all at once,which makes ita lot more noticable.



Meroc

Taipan's Pet's and Bio Tissues, Anchorhead, Tatooine 430 -5000, Ahazi
Master Bio Engineer, Master Creature Handler, Part time Pistoleer.
BECalc 2.0, the Clone and Tissue Pricing tool for Bio Engineers
Version 1.x mirrored on SWG Warcry
RotorofCorRng
Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:32 am
#558

[quote]anyone but me notice that when you critical fail on the first experimentation attempt you always get an amazing right after that? but the critical fail takes the value to 0% so the amazing doesnt do anything after that. hardly random[/quote]

True, too true.

The above is definatly my experience on live.



Rotor - Will cease to exist May 3rd.
Pilai
Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:13 am
#559

What about in products where anything less than a great result might as well be thrown out? Buffs for instance? I'm not a rich doctor, so when I make buffs I only have a limited supply of avian meat. Last time I tried to make ONE set of buffs (just 5 of them, action doesn't use avian)I went through 502 of my 736 units of meat on 22 failures. This was with using both of the new crafting foods, for the beginning anyways. My drink stomach filled up on bespin port. This time around I got about 2 or 3 "good" successes, but the rest of the 22were honest and true failures. The new system? I don't even want to begin to think about it.


I think the biggest problem with this new system is you haven't given us ANY feedback saying that our products should turn out witha similar end value to what they do now. You haven't explained to us at all what is going on. I'm more confused than anything becauseyou say resource qualityis going to begin counting as if it DIDN'T already. Try making a 900 level buff without anything but 950OQ/950PE avian meat...and 950OQ+ reactive gaswhile you're at it. Try making a good T21 withreally high damage and low speed. Maybe its just me, but I seem to remember most smiths wanting to get certain material qualities as high as they can. In fact, most are willing to pay VERYhigh amounts of money for VERY high quality materials. Why are they doing this if resources don't matter right now?


The only difference I see in this new system is that it really doesn't matter toooo much how high up in the smith skills you are, it matters more what resources you have. Is THIS the intention? I'm just having such a hard time seeing what is even remotely good coming with this change. I'm sorry, but nothing you've said so far has made me feel any better about it. I think this thread will change 180 degrees in tone if you would just try and see this from our point of view. You are trying to push a GAME WIDE nerf on us. This effects every aspect of the game. EVERY SINGLE product will be reduced in quality. This is completely unacceptable. Please, just say something to us that doesn't sound like "we don't care what you ACTUALLY want changed, this is whats happening and its for the good of the game". Have you already forgotten how much it sucks to have people not in the know (NO to tell you what is good for you or not?

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