CUEmu - Thread Posts

Twigboy2000

Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:43 am

Kaiva wrote:

I think the Moderate and good success should be fixed, I'm a master weaponsmith and i've tried to get perfect (near perfect)items for schematics. The only problem is, the moderate success seems to make everything worse.. ie: I make a vibro blade, get to experimantation and i put 5 experiment points on damage, i get a moderate success, the whole thing just.. dies, it's completely useless and the damage is worse than it started with... that cant be right if its a success. Then i make another and i put 5 point on damage, then failure, nothing happened, the stats are the same and i have 5 less points to work with... and one more annoying thing, when the % of an itme in experimentation reaches 0% from a crit failure, you get nothing but amazing successes on it, but nothing goes up, you're just putting points into a nothing and getting amazing results.... it's just odd =/

Master Weaponsmith

Armorsmith

Tailor

This really irritates me as well. I was working on reinforcement cores the other night. I got a success and the max damage of the thing dropped to 1!! I think the problem is that they base the mod for a success on 0% instead of the percentage you get from the build. For example, you get a 47% on a final build then go to experiment, then you do a 5 point experiment and get a success worth a 20% increase. I think it just adds this 20% to 0% instead of the 47% you had from the build. Hence a drop with a 'success'. Something's screwy with the math somewhere.

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ThePhantomPoster

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:40 am

#535

Critial failure hurts classes that dont see much degredation on the items that they sell, which also hurts them.

*raises flag*

Both or neither.

wisp1422

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:50 am

#536

I know this may not be related to the topic but in hope a Dev might see this Chef is bugged please fix it, I have yet to get xp off anything other t han Soypro and Air Cake. I have sat at Novice Chef for almost a week now because of this bug. I know its not just me having this problem.

Charal,Nicolette' Corbantis Keep
Tailor Extroidenaire- Preserving the empire one super suit at a time!

Shilak

Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:33 am

#537

A failure rate of 5% would be acceptable for an entire item (note thatI consideranything less than a great success to be a failure) at master skill levels.

The problem with the current system I have found is that the chance of critical failure at each assembly/experiementation attempt seems to be around 4%, the chance of a moderate success when experimenting seems to be around 6%, which combines to make a failure rate of 4% for the assembly and 10% for each expermimentation attempt.

Now, when you consider that every item/schematic I make requires 1 assembly attempt and 3-4 experimentation attempts the chance of successfully making an item isbetween63% and 70% depending on the number of expermentation attempts needed.

When it comes to making complex items like a one off suit of triple layered composite, you find that you will need 50-60% more resources than the schematics state just to compensate for the failure rates. I have found that hand crafting composite armour from factory made segments normally requires 30-35 segments, as opposed to the 21 that the schematics require. Hence production of custom suits of armour or weaponry is very expensive, time consuming and frustrating, thus most smiths turn to mass produced armour or weapons. This is actually quite detrimental to the gameplay as it removes a lot of variation from the game.

Personally, I think a 1% chance of critical failure at master levels would be sufficient and the chance of getting anything other than a critical failure, great success or amazing success should be removed for masters. Critical failures shouldnt consume looted resources like krayt tissues, RIS components, crystals, pearls, rancor segments, etc. If you are worried about the market being flooded with items just increase the condition loss through combat.

On another note the repair functionality needs a look at, especially when repairing items are at zero condition. Currently repairing a zero condition item causes the condition to actually go negative, further repair attempts could cause other problems within the game.

M O R T A R I U S
Master Bounty Hunter / Master Pistoleer / Small Blue Fly on Chimaera

WarlordRhawn

Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:06 am

#538

Out of three suits made I had 17 critical failures and i believe its an error in the city specialization Research center. I say this because i moved mybase of operations out of this area and since then I have made 5 suits with 4 critical errors which in my opinion is much more reasonable. Again this isn't firm data but I am staying out of towns now to make armor.

Natanial Storm

NatanialStormTRGA
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Roxianna

Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:54 pm

#539

I believe their should be an exception made so that items requiring incredibly rare ingredients don't crit fail on assembly. It is just too unfair. I know a jedi who has crit failed three times on the assembly of a fifth generation light sabers losing twelve krayt pearls so far. Things as rare as Peko Peko Albatross Feathers, Donkuwah Poisonwould also go into this catagory and maybe Janta Blood. More common things like Rancor Bile and Teeth would not.

Roxianna
Section One Guild Leader
Proprietor rpkHQ.com
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Feisen

Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:27 am

#540

I really appreciate the devs taking another look at failure rates.

I'm a master tailor, master architect, master artisan.

What I seem to be noticing is an increased failure rate associated with certain components or increased number of components.

Tailoring:

[*]Creating jewerly setting component

[*]Creating shoe sole component

[*]Creating items that require a specific hide (e.g. wooly hide, Tatooine leather) or over 40 hide

[*]Creating items that require several components (e.g. 2 ident trim +3 ident jewerly settings + 5 ident synth cloth + 40 hide) On items like these I seem to fail about 1 in 5 times.

Artisan:

[*]Creating Electronic GP modules (rate: usually 1 in 10 fails)

[*]Creating Microprocessing Suites (try making 100 of these by hand with all subcomponents (by hand)at master artisan; add experimentation for additional frustration)

Architect:

[*]Make torches with handmade Electronic GP modules. I usually fail on 1 or 2 out of 10 attempts.

[*]Making items requiring specific hide (wooly) or more than 100 hides

As for critical fails, I'm also seeing a pattern of 2 or 3 critical fails clumped together. I'd say6 times out of 10 when I crit fail, I'm going to crit fail again on the next attempt. Three critical fails in a row is more rare; I'dsay 1 out of 15 times for me.

This in no way surveys adequately the failure rates for these professions. The point is that the failure rate seems to vary by object created and by subcomponents used. I hope this helps tracking down the problem that crafters are having with failure rate.

Feisen

Lotus Industries
Tian Tian, Merchant | Song Wavestrider, Chef
Lotus Grill, -4555 6860, Brethren City, Dantooine: 12-Point Food & Spirits
Lotus Industries, -6090 -3410, Tyrena, Corellia: Pre-Nerf Weapons and Loot

Tenfo

Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:39 am

#541

To add to previous comments...

It would be nice to see stat comparison using 3 types of tools: -12% tool, 0% tool and +15% tool and compare results.

I would also like to see results in PC city where it has crafting bonus. Currently the city bonuses don't seem to add any bonus to anything in the crafting stages.

Thanks,

T.

l Tofeity Edeiso - MBH / Rifleman l l Tazon - Elder Jedi l

atimes

Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:12 am

#542

Last night I constructed about 10 -15 enhance paks by hand. I have +100 assembly and +100 med experimentation in doctor. I have a +13.86 crafting kit and a +22 private crafting station. I used resources ranging from medium quality to very high quality (in other words no junk).

Out of the 10 -15 enhance paks I crafted by hand I had 2 that had no failures or crit failures during construction and experimentation.

All the others were either crit failures on construction or had failures and critical failures during experimentation.

All the while this thread and the "acceptable level of failure" was going through my mind. The game has evolved to the state that if you get a single failure or anything less than a great success during construction and experimentation the item is junk and won't sell or will sell at Big Lots prices.

ViDMaNiaC

Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:14 am

#543

Thunerheart,

I've been playing this game since BETA3, first shuttle. I have never, ever seen the words 'critical success' on any part of an assembly.

Never.

I've mastered Artisan 4 times, Architect twice, Armorsmith once, evenmusician and smuggler. And I have never seen anything but 'amazing success'. And I've logged at least 30 hours a week playing since release. Most of it's been spent crafting. I really don't take what you say as true in any way, and please don't take a bad look at what I say. I swear there is no critical success, or if there is one, it's 10,000x more rare than an amazing success

Now you can say it happens with the same frequency all you want. But I wonder if you have ever seen it? And what tools are you using in the first place? 15.00 rated hand tools? and what 45.00 stations? I have 14.95 and 43.22. How come I have never gotten one critical success in almost a year, nor has any of my friends, one of which is a weaponsmith/artisan

Besides, none of the data of the first post means anything to the real number-crunchers because you give no information as to how you came up with these rates. What was used to produce the results is kind of important to base something off, isn't it?

For all we know, your using FR100 stations and TE50 tools with resources that are 1000 in everything.

It can't even be compared to anyone else's data because you give no base-line.

Here is what your saying in a different way

We rolled a dice 100 times, it came up with the following results

rolled anodd number: 72 times

rolled aneven number:28 times

But what you don't include is:

we used a 9-sided die.

we rolled it from a cup.

we rolled 10 die at a time to speed things up.

Master Artisan, Master Architect, Master Armorsmith, Merchant 3440 - NGE > Trader/Engineer
Findy Toecutter -RIP-

~~Master Artisan, Master Architect, Master Marksman, Master Scout~~, NGE > Smuggler-in-training
Master Musician, Holo1 | Master Swordsman, Holo2
Finny Toecutter -RIP-
{ Dissident's City, Naboo }{ Sunrunner }

Grozurr

Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:41 am

#544

Trystan1969 wrote:

4% critical failures sounds a bit high for someone who is a master. I think that is the biggest problem people see.

I completely agree with this. I'm a master combat madic, and it's hard enough to make good stuff as it is. i would argue however that because masters often get more schematics at master level, maybe there needs to be an assembly (and experimentation?) tree beyond master that reward someone who is commited to a profession. this would allow the master weaponsmith to create good weapons and have the 95% rate of success, however an additional crafting line could be provided for all of the elite crafting professions to allow a 99% rate of amazing successes and maybe even something like 2 extra experimentation pts. this would, however, have to be something that is gained from having master a long time and could not be grinded through easily-high xp reqs (2-3x the top of the crafting tree), but very rewarding for the vetran crafter with great assembly rewards and the chance to get a couple extra experimentation pts.

Grozzer
DSB
Master Combat Medic

Galdara

Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:29 am

#545

It's the experimentation 'failures' on top of final combine critical failures that's the problem. Unless you get a 'great', it's pretty much considered a failure because no one will want to use the end result. I'll always be a proponent of critical failures and experimentation on sub-components, not final results. If you use the best, you should expect the best.

payingcustomer

Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:50 pm

#546

Chrysalide wrote:

I really wanted to find out what the crafting community thought about these numbers.

I thinkthe Thunderheart/Chrysalidetest proves the futility ofthe resource malleability attribute and how good these two are at wasting our time.

So instead of a comment, I think I'll just goread something else. Maybe I'll go experimentthe durability on my weapon subcomponents. Yeah, and see where that gets me. NOWHERE!

Chrysalide wrote:
I just wanted to thank everyone for their responses and feedback.

As you can plainly see, I didn't providefeedback, because YOUR game doesn't provideenough detailed content to hypothesise accurately. The character mod list doesn'tchange in realtime. We have no way of knowing our base mods and buff mods actual results, its all handwaving our side.

Like most people who find comfort in the numbers, I find your current system uncomfortable. Itshighly guesstimateable.

Oar

Lostthree friends thusfar since release, andmore quiting everyday. "Why do they quit SWG?" Poor Dev. I'd like to be able to say something to them, to get them to return, butSWG keeps introducing new bugs to hidetheir old ones.

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Thread: Crafting Critical Failure Rates