Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one? (II)
NikkiT
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:34 am
#40
Great idea, Fire-Spray. Some epic quests for each profession type to trigger force sensitivity. This means the path would be known soon, but if the quest ist large enough...what does it matter? But it should also be tied to other variables: play-time, XP earned etc so that no nubie char can instantly jump into the quest...it should have to be triggered by certain preconditions.
catalyst1234
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:34 am
#41
no doubt most of the players with existing jedis will want it to be
daunting exhasting and insanely long and unknown
honestly i dont think they should get very much of a say in it
cause while therre maybe some that dont care
alot of the jedi i have came in contact with are frankly **edit**
ive been playing since launch and i dont think i should have to spend another month or so after pub 10
to try to figure out the whole quest thing because i didnt wanna afk macro/grind holocrons instead of enjoying the game
Message Edited by catalyst1234 on 07-10-2004 02:38 PM
shotoyan
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:34 am
#42
Make it rare and completely random, somewhat like loot drops. Except make the "randomness" take into account a number of factors about the player. That way there isn't a "known" method to be discovered and documented all over the Internet, but there are things that players can do to increase their chances.
Idea's for player factors:
- how long the player has been playing
- how much the player plays
- how sucessful the player is in his profession (bring down major mobs over and over and not get killed? Your a successful combatant. Consistantly craft high quality gear with high success experimentation rates? Your a successful crafter, etc.)
-how much the player has completed in the way of npc quests
- how high the players success rate is in npc quests (on the first try)
- how many badges have been collected
None of these ideas involve tons and tons of grinding (except for maybe the profession successfulness one), and all revolve around getting the full experience of the game by exploring the games various content (which I'm sure has always been a side issue of the Devs - getting people to explore and find new content-type things)
L8niteowl
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:35 am
#43
I just want to FEEL like I did something special to unlock. It doesn't have to be hard or mysterious, sounds like all that will be covered in the actual pursuit of jedi. And I like feedback that I'm on the right track. Some basic themepark type stuff would be allright, just not all destroy stuff please.
And if people want to get a newbie lightsaber and flash it around at the starport, it doesn't spoil my fun at all 
add sig Gaurod Eho - TKM, Master Ranger - Corbanits
Meplorium
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:36 am
#44
I think the true question is not one of should it be, but can it be?
Will it become a sticky on a boardafter a few people have figured it out? The profession thing remained a secert until you guys put holos in the game. Then the wookiee cat got out if its armor bag. There are two ways that it can remain 'mysterious'. One, aka profession way, make is so hard and random no one will ever achieve that, and hence figure it out. Two, make there be so many behind the sences ways of doing this that it appears too random to figure out. One clearly isn't going to work, although is doable man hour wise. Two is what is should be, however coming up with 50-60 different ways to become force sensity so it can never truely be figured out is going to take a lot of man hours.
If you can not do mysterious right due to limitations in the programing schedule, then make it known. If the path is overly simplistic like master x number of professions, it will be known. So put it in the holocron and be done with it. Otherwise mysterious is the wayin my opinion.
As for quests or force sensitivity or the way to become force sensitive, please please take into concideration the playing habits of your customers. The number one thing that ruins this game for me is other players. Not my friends in game, but random people that deplete the content from this game, such as campers. What ever you do make it not campable and make any items needed to do these quests non-tradable. That way we all have a chance at the content without it being camped and without it affecting the economy in any way.
Flynn_Nomad
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:39 am
#45
The factor that decides force sensitivity should be SOLEY based on your behavior and actions when you interact with the world.
Everyone should have the ability todevelop an inherentforce sensitivity.
But the choices and acts one would make to develop this quality would be COMPLETELY mysterious, save the guidance of common sense and comon knowledge.
You should basically begin SUB-force sensitive, like an average Joe, no one special.
You do a few good deeds perform a few tasks, then you get the message that you are officially force sensitive.
Similar to the hologrind but you would have a meter from day one that would begin sub force sensitive and once you reached force sensitviy you would have 2 more meters, the dark path and the light path.
EVERY action should make a difference.
When I first started a year ago, I believed that if I killed a townsperson in cold blood, I would get credit towards the dark side.
I believed if I challenged someone to a duel it would have an impact.
I believed if I took a mission from an NPC criminal, it would count towards the dark path and on the other hand taking a mission from a noble would help me down the light path.
It's really all worldly and video game common sense, like the old choose your path storybooks.
Just follow how Anakin became a Jedi and you have your answer.
As for how to become force sensitive, again, it should be based on your actions and you should start sub-force sensitive and have a mysterious (but common sense) path, (AND NOT GRINDING) to force sensitivity.
My day one "feelings" or "beliefs" as it were, were based on YEARS of video game common sense. NEVER would I have guessed that it was determined by how many, and what professions you mastered.., but more of a "who helps the old Rodian lady across the street" theory.
PS! these good deed acts that I am suggesting should NOT be a forced linear path. ALL of your actions should be taken into consideration, use the current npc's you have, make "how you answer them" count. After you complete the task, if you kill them it should matter.
Everything should matter, don't force me down some instanced dungeon.
Dewdus
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:41 am
#46
First off, I am confused about the distinction between FS and not. Under the current system is there an FS? Is a person working their holo professions tring to become FS or a beginner Jedi? In the new system, what does having done your four holo professions (but not unlocked) count towards, FS or Jedi?
That said, there is no point to making it a complete mystery. One, it will eventually be figured out and posted to the Internet. Two, the old one was a complete mystery and it was such a mystery that it was not being figured out in the timeline you and the players wanted and you guys had to deploy holos to facilitate it.
It needs to contain some randomness, and a LITTLE mystery. Perhaps a dozen reasonable unknown triggers (e.g, you have obtained x number of badges), will cause a system message or e-mail that says "you feel blah blah blah, perhaps the strange hermit that lives at wp x y can help you understand what is going on".
You need to keep in mind that there are players who have been in the game since day one and want Jedi as much as anyone who has already obtained it. They simply did not have the means or time to grind out x number of professions. Your new system needs to be fair and not make it harder than necessary for the sake of being different than the current system.
And please enough with the hunt down random spawns stuff. Your existing engine allows for the spawning of quest creatures and NPCs on demand, use that instead of forcing people to wander planets endlessly looking for random spawns that they end up fighting with other players over.
That said, there is no point to making it a complete mystery. One, it will eventually be figured out and posted to the Internet. Two, the old one was a complete mystery and it was such a mystery that it was not being figured out in the timeline you and the players wanted and you guys had to deploy holos to facilitate it.
It needs to contain some randomness, and a LITTLE mystery. Perhaps a dozen reasonable unknown triggers (e.g, you have obtained x number of badges), will cause a system message or e-mail that says "you feel blah blah blah, perhaps the strange hermit that lives at wp x y can help you understand what is going on".
You need to keep in mind that there are players who have been in the game since day one and want Jedi as much as anyone who has already obtained it. They simply did not have the means or time to grind out x number of professions. Your new system needs to be fair and not make it harder than necessary for the sake of being different than the current system.
And please enough with the hunt down random spawns stuff. Your existing engine allows for the spawning of quest creatures and NPCs on demand, use that instead of forcing people to wander planets endlessly looking for random spawns that they end up fighting with other players over.
Jayces
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:42 am
#47
To be perfectly honest this all seems rather mute.
From the day Jedi were announced as a playable character in SWG I would say that about 80% of those who wanted to play SWG wanted to be a Jedi.
You're initial system excluded the majority of those because of theprofession grind which in the end you basically told people how to become a Jedi thus blowing away any mystery whatsoever.
I would like some mystery to becoming FS and Jedi but if you are saying that the FS to Jedi path is given to you on a plate then I guess we have to rely on FS being a mystery. I suppose it would make sense that once you became FS you would be able to use the force to guide you in how to become a Jedi so you would infact know what to do.
I would like mostly mystery with a little bit of guidance gradually increasing as you become 'more' FS until you actually reach it. So what I mean is the ratio of mystery / directed instructions changes as you go down the path and learn about becoming FS, more mystery at the beggining, less guidance and more guidance at the end and less mystery.
Whatever you do, would it be possible to make it a bit more starwarsy then the last attempt please?
Princess_Chibi
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:43 am
#48
There used to be an old MUD with a similar issue and they came up with a most interesting way of unlocking. Basically, to let you in on the backdrop noone knew how close they ever were to unlocking, although occasionally while crafting something they might get an oddball message once every 10,000 tries that "You feel strange and complete this item slightly ahead of schedule." or "You have a good feeling that this weapon will be most exceptional."
The path to actually becoming FS was also as mysterious. There was a small shopping list of about seven items you had to fly all over the galaxy to get from wierd places. I remember the focusing chamber for a lightsaber everyone knew where it was, it was down an alley and lying in a small pile of items which spawned every few minutes off on a trashed Imperial colony. But only a JEDI could do something with them. You would have to fly around, grab these items, and then fly back to a stone temple on Yavin IV, and go into one of three meditation chambers. While someone was in these chambers, noone else could enter or interrupt. These chambers were strong in the Force, specifically light side as Luke was usually somewhere in this temple. There were only a few of these "Strong in the Force" rooms around the entire game, and most knew where they were because the messages would change if you did something Force related around or in them. (One was on Degobah in the Force Cave. The Dark Jedi used these.)
Now in actually trying to become a Jedi most players would just live their normal lives. Youcould seek out Luke and he might give you items and things, but there was no set way to become a Jedi. You basically ran some missions for money, went out and killed Stormies for fun, and when you had some spare time you might go to Yavin and meditate for awhile in one of these rooms, or go kill Force-mobs and things like that. The actual mechanic here was each player when they created their characters was issued a random number between 1 and 800 out of a 1,000 (and a total1,200 scale, the last25points of the extra 200were thetriggerwhich made you aJedi as it would unlock the abilities for Jedi as well. You were FS at 775+.)scale, two scales representing the light and dark sides of the Force. You could do things which would raise and lower your respective numbers for each scale. At the end of the scale, say if you reached a random value between 895 and 975, you could go to the temple and Yavin and it would give you a message telling you you are in tune with the Force.
At this point you would get another twelve sets of skills which you could train, you could now build a lightsaber and use one, although you weren't a Jedi yet so occasionally for some random damage you might injure yourself (and once for 3/4's of my life.) I forget where it states but only Jedi can handle a lightsaber with ease, for most others they're more likely to harm themselves than their enemies. (It's also in the Jedi Academy manual, they did NOT use this in the game which is why JA is considered one of the insta-Jedi games.) Now you could meditate which would raise your points a random number or go out and kill stormies if you were light side, rebels if you were dark, and that might help you or not at random. Basically though, you would spend at least 20 minutes a login meditating if you logged8 hours a day if you were seeking FS or Jedi. Once you were FS, it would also give you slight ability increases for the next two hours or so, which made meditating worthwhile even as FS and not Jedi.
Now in actually constructing your lightsaber, you would gather the pieces from across the galaxy, and then you would fly back to Yavin (if you were dark you had another temple elsewhere, I never did find out where as I was lightside.) At this point you would enter a meditation chamber (by the way, these rooms shut off your tells and ability to hear or talk to anyone but an Admin. This was meant to be a private room which you couldn't attack, or be disturbed in. I sometimes went to sleep here which kept me safe for a short time. It was a !ATTACKor no-attack room.) and you could assemble the lightsaber. It would take time, meditation, and until your LS crafting ability was about 75%,one out of every three lightsabers would fail. At Jedi, one out of every twenty I think it was, and you didn't have to replace them more than once a month or two. Anyways, the actual process of crafting them took time as you had to draw in the Force. 10-15 realtime minutes per saber, and on average I made two as I double-wielded. If you were successful, it would allow you to name your lightsabers and equip them. As a Jedi further meditation would give me enhanced combat abilities. If I was between FS on my way to Jedi, I could meditate to increase my count to unlock Jedi.
So now you're a FS or Jedi, you have some skills (and yes, occasionally powers crossed over, I could use Force lightning as a Light side, but it would drain me and affect my alignment a little each time.) I was stronger than the level 100's by the time I was level 80 as a Jedi. I would deflect 99% of what came at me, and only SEVERELY weakened, and one time unconcious wasI killed. (I fell unconcious because of a strong poison after fighting a major Mon Cal, and some guy who was harassing me tracked me down, and deathblew me while I was already down, he didn't even have to work for it. After I recloned I went after him, and he said I didn't have the right as those that just cloned had no idea of what happened in their previous life. I killed him for that. 20 minutes later the MUD got hacked and that was that.... That was almost four or so years ago.) In space flight, yes you could fly in space in a text-based game; Jedi had increased resistances, although not much and higher reflexes by about 10%.
All in all, THIS is a cool system for unlocking. You never know how far along you are unless an Admin tells you what percentage. You HAVE to live your life inside the game and can't just drop everything to go meditate for four months, even after which you might not get anywhere. That's not to say you won't, that's just to say I saw many do it, and it never happened for them.You went on doing your own thing, and occasionally, if you were lucky, you might have a run-in with the Force or get a mysterious feeling via a system message. Lightsabers could be used by FS, but only Jedi were flat-out deadly with them. And once you were a high level Jedi, you were all but invincible, but it took time, dedication, and some Adminpoints (points you would get from God [Admin's name] occasionally for doing good [or bad if you were Dark side] deeds.)
Mysterious is the way to go. Certain things should be a given. Like when you post the notes for patch 10 you could say, "If you become Force Sensitive, it would be wise to construct a lightsaber. This must be done alone, and you must use the Force to complete one." <--- This doesn't tell how, where, or why, but it gives a good idea. Get the pieces first obviously, you have to be FS, you can't do it anyplace public, and you need to find someplace strong in the Force or be strong in it yourself.
I'd also like to point out that as a high level Jedi, because you had Admin-approval, if you were annoyed by someone or harassed in the game, the Jedi had the option of using their mindtrick to put that player to sleep (like a sleepcurse where you couldn't just type /wake to wake up.) On average they stayed asleep for 10 minutes so you could fly off the planet and be LONG gone by the time they got up. It was also effective in battle.
I don't know what you could do with the dark side. Some of it has to be meditation like this, but a lot of it should be more combat based and taking hits for hire. Anyways, here you go, hope it was a good read.
--Princess Chibi
Princess of Bounty Hunters
pbudzy
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:43 am
#49
justg, whatever you do please dont make this game Jedi Wars. it will not be fun and it will kill the economy and please find a way to keep the dueling jedi out of theed and coronet. Give jedi visibilty meters or something. I know it is a little off topic but you will have to deal with way to many jedi if you make the quest to be a jedi easy.
eRAZORNew
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:44 am
#50
Dewdus wrote:
First off, I am confused about the distinction between FS and not. Under the current system is there an FS? Is a person working their holo professions tring to become FS or a beginner Jedi? In the new system, what does having done your four holo professions (but not unlocked) count towards, FS or Jedi?
That said, there is no point to making it a complete mystery. One, it will eventually be figured out and posted to the Internet. Two, the old one was a complete mystery and it was such a mystery that it was not being figured out in the timeline you and the players wanted and you guys had to deploy holos to facilitate it.
It needs to contain some randomness, and a LITTLE mystery. Perhaps a dozen reasonable unknown triggers (e.g, you have obtained x number of badges), will cause a system message or e-mail that says "you feel blah blah blah, perhaps the strange hermit that lives at wp x y can help you understand what is going on".
You need to keep in mind that there are players who have been in the game since day one and want Jedi as much as anyone who has already obtained it. They simply did not have the means or time to grind out x number of professions. Your new system needs to be fair and not make it harder than necessary for the sake of being different than the current system.
And please enough with the hunt down random spawns stuff. Your existing engine allows for the spawning of quest creatures and NPCs on demand, use that instead of forcing people to wander planets endlessly looking for random spawns that they end up fighting with other players over.
Yeah totally weird. I'd the majority of the posters in this thread don't know the distinction either.
trickydawn
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:44 am
#51
once again:
-All items related to becoming force sensitive should be no drop.
-absolutely nothing that encourages hours and hours of camping and ninja looting.
It should be a mystery and unique to each person to some extent. As mention several other times, there should be some way to solve that mystery for you. Needs to be some randomness in it so that while you can make a walk through, you would actually have to pay attention to the quests and what quest givers say in order to progress rather than just go back to the walkthrough.
Also, it would be nice if you had a meter or something that let you know how you were progressing.
-All items related to becoming force sensitive should be no drop.
-absolutely nothing that encourages hours and hours of camping and ninja looting.
It should be a mystery and unique to each person to some extent. As mention several other times, there should be some way to solve that mystery for you. Needs to be some randomness in it so that while you can make a walk through, you would actually have to pay attention to the quests and what quest givers say in order to progress rather than just go back to the walkthrough.
Also, it would be nice if you had a meter or something that let you know how you were progressing.
Jenden
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:45 am
#52
I still say it should be pretty mysterious, with hints as to where to start and what to do next being dropped (if your paying attention).