Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Publish 7 Feedback: Crafting System Enhancements
The stated purpose of the change was to make getting into the market a less daunting task for new crafters, and to help the economy via more variability in products. Making a BER 14 harvester or a 100% experimented powerup does not accomplish that. In fact, it makes things considerably worse.
Rather than come in here proclaiming that you can get good results with established stockpiles of superior-quality resources, put yourself in the shoes of a lower level crafter. Go out and harvest some of whatever happens to be spawning nearby at the time. Then try making a quality product from it. For that matter, try using less than your 10 or 12 possible experimentation points and see how things turn out as compared to what you could have gotten pre-patch. Even using a just-below master's 8 points you'll likely find yourself disappointed. Finally, as a master with good resources try making something well-balanced between two or more different stats. In none of these situations is the change desirable.
The items that are being made better are almost all one-line affairs in the hands of established masters with superior resources. While this may indeed benefit some of us, it does not encourage competition or a diverse market. Rather, it encourages everyone to make exactly the same thing.
If the intention was to make the elite crafters even more elite while making everyone else even more useless, this patch would be great. It was not, and I for one am very happy it's being reverted.
Itchybacca wrote:
I will copy and paste my post on WS boards.
Since I'm established with 12 experiment points I like the change... but new SMiths who have no tapes will have no chance at competing against the quality I have even using the same resources, so I think the new system gives established smiths a huge advantage over new smiths, and it will inflate the skill tape market even more than it is already.
So while I'm ok with the system, I think to be fair to all Master Smiths not just the established and/or wealthy ones, getting rid of it is key factor.
to give you an idea
FT's 10 points 4.6 840
FT's 12 points 4.4 851
Jawa Ion 10 points 5.5 230
Jawa Ion 12 points 5.1 238
I like the change for me, but for the average crafter I think it's best it goes.
Yep, all the posts above talking about having greater products than before are most likely from the peoplethat have 12 experimentation points. People who are making a million schematics with this new system, and will have a monopoly that will lock out all new crafters forever.
Good job devs on deciding to scrap this system. Too bad it was too late. The economy you wanted to fix just got destroyed even more.
Teiresias-Tempest wrote:
The difference between a 10 point master weaponsmithand a 12 point master weaponsmith is now drastic and makes getting into the profession much harder, but it's a change I can live with.
What I can't live with is removing this system after it's been implemented for a day. The damage, if you want to call it that, is already done. By removing it a day later all the smiths with 12 points will be stocking up on Temp-Patch weapons and completely devastating the economy for the next couple of months. At least if the changes are left in the 10 point masters can look forward to some day achieving similar stats.
At this point I believe the changes should just be left in. At least I'll have a new goal now that I've spent four months stockpiling resources.
BlueOx wrote:
I always knew the new crafting system would benefit me as a Master Artisan, but now I really see it! Wow! I'm making +15 crafting tools, 100% repair kits, and I'm setting up a factory run right now so I can attempt the ultimate -- +45 crafting stations. Please, I beg of you, do not revert to the old system. I'm pulling an all-nighter to make sure I can get enough schematics and factory runs done of this new stuff as possible before the plug gets pulled.
It's nice that I'm able to make better stuff, but you know the best part? The crafting process has this amazing element of suspense now. Just like when you walk into a new combat situation for the first time -- are you gonna live? are you gonna die? But with crafting now, it's "am I gonna get the four amazings I need to hit the cap?" It took me about a dozen tries to get a good armor repair tool schematic and I was so proud of myself and my persistance at the end when I saw that "100%" come up on my screen. It felt "special" to me, instead of just something that any other double-clicking monkey could have done with the same resources.
Please don't revert!
P.S. Oh, yeah, and I've only had two crits so far. /happy dance
RocketM wrote:
The new crafting system is a lot more fun to use than the old one. It takes more work actually experimenting and trying to get just the right rolls for a great item, but its addicting. Its like playing Lotto! I still think the end result of keeping this system is going to be that there are some schematics (multi-experimentation-line items)that cannot be made equal to what they were in the past, but reverting back to the old system will now produce the same problem since the new system also allows some items to be made higher than they were before. This system should never have been put in as it is because of the pre-nerf/post-nerf effect it is going to have on the equipment markets, but I must admit thatit isa more fun and rewarding a system than the old one from an entertainment point of view.
Odim wrote:
I'm sorry
YOU GUYS WERE RIGHT THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS BETTER.
I'd like to apologize to the devs, I'm all for the new crafting system. As for the guy above that said armor would be worse... your wrong... check the armorsmith forums. They're happy too
Aynaza wrote:
I'm sitting at work today cruising the boards and looking to see what's what... After all the doom and gloom about the new crafting system the number of positive responces is quite surprising.
A thought occures why not simply leave the new system in place for a week... That'll give most crafter the opportunity to actually explore the system then hold a referendum on whether to keep it or kill it.
To encourage experementation back up the resource database and re-emburse people for the resourses they burn up.
Marcella D'Vega - Naritus Cluster
just a little... feedback i noticed
"The damage, if you want to call it that, is already done. By removing it a day later all the smiths with 12 points will be stocking up on Temp-Patch weapons and completely devastating the economy for the next couple of months."
Hardly "devastating" yes the 12 pointers have an advantage but they are not making "ultra" superior weapons, just better than the 10 pointers. I still believe 10 pointers can compete against 12 pointers but there will be a visible gap now where-as there wasnt much of a gap before (and you have to admit, having 2 extra exp points should make a difference)
I do think the extra 2 points should be acheivable to every master of their profession in a different way than buying looted skill tapes though.
gggggggggggggggggggggggg
Bru
The Brotherhood - Eclipse
Nu'Maoi City, shop located @ -2763 -3828
Master Weaponsmith
gggggggggggggggggggggggg
I did not try the changes, but for those, who complain about not reaching 100%:
Did you think about the fact, that maybe skill enchanting tapes and better quality crafting stations MAY play a role in the new system?
I have the feeling, everybody wants it easy and want to make uber items in the desert without any crafting qualities.
Would be nice, if a DEV could confirm, that better quality stations and skill enchanting items do play a role in the new system.
I am a Master Weaponsmith and have been collecting great materials for some time now. I haven't done a ton of tests yet with the new system, but have done a few. My few attempts with 12 experimentation points has yielded slightly better speed/damage for items using high quality resources. I do find that there often are few to no points available to use on any experiementation bars except effectiveness. It often takes 10 or 11 points to max out the speed/damage bar. This leaves little room to impact other attribues. With one point left I may be able to reduce the HAM by 2 or improve the range by 2 or enhance durability by 75. Generally that will have little to no impact on the gun sale or how it is ued. For those with 12 points and good resources, we will see improved damage output and probably less effective HAM/Range/Durability.
The market for the skill tapes is already pretty crazy. 10 Million to get one experimentation point is crazy. Being an established smith, I could afford them, but I can't imagine a new smith being able to obtain these. I love the diversity created by the resource hunt and that a diligent smith can over time create superior weapons. I don't even want to see that go away.
JimmTanis
Thunderheart wrote:
What are your experiences with this new crafting enhancement?
From Announcements Forum:
As part of Publish 7, the team included a change to Crafting Experimentation. Based on customer feedback, we are going to remove the experimentation changes. These were already part of today’s publish and will be present in the game until Wednesday March 17th. At that time, the crafting experimentation changes will be removed with a hotfix.
Just exactly WHY is the change being pulled?? I'm glad to hear that you are removing the patch based on customer feedback, which I'm reading here is... positive...???There's an exploit in this isn't there? Some imbalance that you guys missed because you don't have Char Copy for Test Center yet and can't get more than 2 people to waste time leveling a throw-away character andguinea pignew changes without compensation... I'm not seeing the negativecustomer feedback you speak of.
i make alot better stuff than before.
We need to keep this online.
Gaenjin wrote:
Just exactly WHY is the change being pulled?? I'm glad to hear that you are removing the patch based on customer feedback, which I'm reading here is... positive...???There's an exploit in this isn't there? Some imbalance that you guys missed because you don't have Char Copy for Test Center yet and can't get more than 2 people to waste time leveling a throw-away character andguinea pignew changes without compensation... I'm not seeing the negativecustomer feedback you speak of.
Because there were 30+ pages of uninformed people who never tested it saying they didn't like it.
Next time I hope they only comment if they know what they're talking about. It doesn't help anyone to have people who haven't even tried out the system being seen as a majority and controlling power on these forums. 
Still, this change will hurt starting players who don't have good resources to use and who don't have many exp points, but honestly is there much a non master can make that anyone wants to buy anyway? It's always been hard for starting crafters, but I'm not a fan of making it even harder for them. It's a mix. I like it, but if I were new, it would not be very good.
I personal had very limited experience with the crafting system, try it this morning before work and made a few things. Maybe leave the changes in till Thrusday, and then revert back to the old system so everyone can compare and contrast the two systems. Then put it to a forum poll vote as it were.
BTW, character copy is not the answer to the test center problem, Serve copy is. Even if I was on test center with full skills I would still have no resources, no money and no means to get the items needed for testing. With a full server copy, and do 3 to 5 servers, then we can fully test things out. That is the way to go. You can then feel free to do whips after the publish.
BTW nice job on getting the publish out this morning, real fast.
Both of my crafting characters have 10 exp points. They both make better products with the same good quality resources as they used before.
TroThorns wrote:
Yep, all the posts above talking about having greater products than before are most likely from the peoplethat have 12 experimentation points.