Development Cycle Archive

Thread: On Mandalorian Armor

Brunerr
Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:53 am
#495

I posted this already in the concept forum, put I felt this could have a use here as well:


Maybe I will be more extreme regarding the question witch professions will be able to wear armours (read on) with their full benefits (calm down now). First of all, class based or skill based, some things can't just be considered right using this cheap (in this matter) excuse since this game should be a RPG before all. Let's get to it.



As was already stated, damage can be minimised by:

1) void strikes: melee/ranged defence, dodge/block(half)/counterattack

2) damage absorption: melee/ranged mitigation (kind of), toughness (melee), armours

These are the ones I remember right now (muon gold downtime gets worser each time) Defensive balance has always been attained by mixing both of these factors. This means that lightly armoured people move faster (and are hit lesser) than their heavy armoured counterparties who take more hits but have a good deal of damage absorbed.


What happens these days in SWG: those factors aren't mixed but added to each other. What is the result? You get people who can hardly be hit and when the strike is successful a "best level" absorption is possible on top (would have been nice, a ninja in a medieval heavy armour). We even don't talk about any buffs here...


Ok, how can it be fixed IMHO? A suggestion: beside of the actual HAM cost (you regenerate better without armour), keep the existing skill tree based defence bonuses (eventuale spread out the same modifiers across the different brarches of a tree: try to defstack now! :-) but:

1) Put penalties on each armour type regarding "void strikes": each armour would cap the "void strike" defences since this will be compensated by the absorption. If you wear a lighter armour (eventually with armours that can be considered as ideal for a professions), you will close in on the full potential of your "void strikes" skills.

2) Cap the armour absorption to something ... lower as the actual cap (>80% is overkill)

3) Cap the whole content of the "void strikes" defence to ... well ... something lower (actually it is around 60% when you have 120 melee/ranged defence? + the "no-hit" moves bonus 12,5% max?)


A nice way to avoid the so called def-"exploits" would be to use a concept SOE already uses in SWG in the form of “melee/ranged mitigation 1-3”: levels. Drop the plain numbers & implement those levels for all defence modifiers ex. Melee/Ranged defence 1; Melee/Ranged defence 2; …; Melee/Ranged defence 5. Level 5 would be the max you can get (with a lower value behind it than can be reached now). You won't be able to increase it any more but once acquired, you have it for all combat professions where it is applicable. Same for block/counterattack/dodge …


PvP would become more enjoyable IMHO & we would start to see some more original player templates since you won’t need to “stack” to stay competitive. Of course, PvE would probably become tougher but hey … master or not: you are not supposed to solo a rancor lair anyway! Maybe we will grab back to hunting groups with medics & stuff.


PS/ Off scope:

- Would you like to make the PvP more starwarsy? Make faction armors/clothes mandatory for overt players but make these easier to get

- Secondary HAM attribute buffs should be a % of the their base: the actual buffes make the regen rates insane


In IMHO, mandalorian should only be wore by M.BH & M. Commando's ... these people are supposed to take the most hits so the best absorption should be granted. This doesn't take away (current game politics ... hmm ... and what about the wookies then?) that others could wear it .... but the penalties would need to be that severe that no one else would WANT to wear it.


Brunerr Hurro, ex-member of the silent majority



Brunerr Hurro, ex-member of the silent majority
NaKitNa
Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:59 pm
#496

I understand they want to keep the economy player run but dont the armorsmiths and weaponsmiths have enough money... can something be a straight drop? Ok there were the geo pistols but all i have seen are crap

Midros
Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:06 pm
#497

I'm here to clear something up about this BH/mando crap.


Yes, Boba Fett did indeed wear Mandolorian armor.


Are the rest of you Boba Fett?


no


Are the rest of you the most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy?


no


Were the Mandolorian people exclusively bounty hunters?


no


Is Boba Fett the only bounty hunter?


no


Out of the 6 bounty hunters contracted by Vader to track down han Solo, how many wore Mandolorian armor?


1/6


What do we call saying that because the most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy gets Mando armor, the rest should too?


stupid


Is giving the BHs one of the coolest things in Star Wars simply because 1 man in the entire galaxy has it fair?


not at all


If the BHs are going to **edit** all day and night about how much BH sucks, should they switch to a different prof?


probably


Should the rest of the elite combat profs be given equal access?


In my opnion, yes






Midros Brime, Naritus.
ForceofChad
Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:29 pm
#498

I believe that only master BH and commandos should be able to wear the armor. Limiting it to them would reduce the amount of players runnin around in it. I think it should be loot not schematics for 2 reasons one the crafters are rich enough and two it will limit it more.



The circle is now complete when I left you I was but the learner. Now I am the Master!
Brunerr
Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:37 pm
#499


Are the rest of you Boba Fett?

Nope


Are the rest of you the most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy?

You mean a true Master? Well ... yes I am. How many Jedi's did Boba kill? For my part, I despatched one ... (as did many other BHs).


Were the Mandolorian people exclusively bounty hunters?

Nope, to use a general term .... Mercenaries


Is Boba Fett the only bounty hunter?

Nope, but apparently he looked like the onlyMBH


Out of the 6 bounty hunters contracted by Vader to track down han Solo, how many wore Mandolorian armor?

Right! So it's even rare in the BH society! And who tracked Han down in the end ....a MBH


What do we call saying that because the most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy gets Mando armor, the rest should too?

Nope, but other Masters should deserve to wear it if they are able to get one


Is giving the BHs one of the coolest things in Star Wars simply because 1 man in the entire galaxy has it fair?

And who was that man? AMBH.


If the BHs are going to **edit** all day and night about how much BH sucks, should they switch to a different prof?

Nope, BH are a very important part of this universe.


Should the rest of the elite combat profs be given equal access?

Nope, only the master level of the combat professions where you have to master twoother professions as a pre requisite removing the possibilty to master another combat profession.



Brunerr Hurro, ex-member of the silent majority
Sneakysmuggler
Wed Apr 28, 2004 2:50 pm
#500

One thing to say.............................QUIT CRYING BOUNTY HUNTERS!!!Just because 2 Mandalorians were BHs doesnt mean every Mandalorians were a BH or commando.In fact there was a society of Mandalorians in the Old Republic that was filled with Crafters and Merchants too.SO STOP CRYING AND SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!(P.S. They are making BH armor for u MBHs.So be happy that u get exclusive armor.)



#####Sneaky Smuggler#####
!!!!!Fight the Tide!!!!!
~~~~~Elder Commando~~~~~
-Leonidas-
Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:00 pm
#501

heres my idea i think it would be nice to have different colors because i know boba fett wasnt the onlyone to have a suit and from what i have read they have all different colors and i agree that it shouldnt be a schematic i would wear it even if it had a low protection. long hard quests are the better choice because personally i dontthink it would be fair to the non hardcore players who lovethe game just as much but just dont play it asoftenand full suit drops are better. also maybe we could make this suit untradable so it doesnt flood the economy.and i think that all marksman should be able to wear it marksman elite classes that is like master pistoleer etc because u dont have to be a bh like the fetts, which by the way is just coincidence in my opinion if we saw more in to the movie im sure more mandalorians had rifle skills etc. but melee classes seems a bit of a reach. any thats just me so if u have the patience to sit through long hours (emphasize long) of sitting playing through quests u diserve it because im lazy and ill still fight to the end to get a suit cuz boba fett is my hero!



Ewidom Khan
-=Smuggler=-
-=Swordsman=-
"Don't write me off until you watch me die, face to face."

Dravenite83
Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:08 pm
#502

Ok a note on Mandolorians....


Mandolorians are no different than Humans. Just a different branch of the culture. The thing that set Mandalorians apart was that they were a war driven culture. However unlike other war driven cultures ie gamoreans(sp?) and rodians they grew to craft extensively. They had about a million variations or the basic armor, as well as specialized transports and droids. They were as much about making the items as they were aboout using them. Also, until after the last Sith War Mandolorians were not Mercenaries. They were a people that lived on Mandalore and made a life of conquering weaker cultures. As for BH/Commandos being exclusively allowed to wear this... Why? As I see it if you want to go off the word Mercenary then only people with Carbines 4xxx should be able to wear it. After all they get that as their tag.


Mandorlorian armor was not worn only by Jango and Boba. There was a group of mercenaries during this time that wore it. And they were all direct descendants of true Mandolorians just like Jango and Boba.


Kinda funny but all I can think of when I read all you BH and commandos whining to get it for yourselves only is Gollum. LoL. "MY PRECIOUS!!!!"


Seriously think before you claim one prof should get a particular armor. Also someone on one of the first pages posted about Ninja wearing plate armor. They did. They were called Samurai. They wore heavy plate and could move as well in it as out of it. Its all about learning how to wear it. So by the logic that TK shouldnt be allowed to wear Mando cause they are "ninja-like" that is a weak arguement. And as I recall I saw Yoda teaching fencing to the padawans in episode 2. Seriously every combat prof should be able to wear armor. If you want to do a cert system then allow anyone that is master of an Elite Combat Prof the ability to wear all armors. Give Docs and combat medics the ability to wear up to say maybe Ubese, and crafts get Mabari. That allows everyone to wear something but gives a varying level of proficiency dependant on the character. It also stresses the mastery of profs so that you can use better equipment, hence discouraging dabblers.


I doubt that they are going to do too much to alter this armor now that they have started to put it together.


As Caesar said when facing the insurmountable odds against Pompei...


The die is cast....


Dravenite83
Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:10 pm
#503

Where do you get that the best PvPers are TK? They may have some TK, for example, meditation and defenses but I doubt they are only TK. Most common right now seems to be TK/Fencer. Fencer is much more powerful than TK right now. And at least on my server Fencer is very popular in the PvP.
Dravenite83
Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:13 pm
#504

Bottom line is Mandolorians were soldiers not just marksmen. They were versed in all forms of weapons. They were masters of combat not just firing a gun.
Brunerr
Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:12 am
#505


Indeed, BHs get their own armor type with worse stats than composite apparently (I guess I'm too pessimist ... first composites weren't that great either). I never saw something like it .... I guess it comes out of a comic or something. It will create some variation, that's good.


This means by default that Mandolerian will be wearableby all combat proffesions. I guess it's better this way. I just really hope that this armor won't become as common as compositeand that the dev's will revamp the defensive system so noone can become a master in avoiding damage & be able to have best absorption at the same time. I already posted something about it in this thread (passive defence caps/armour), so I'm (almost) done with it: this iswhere speeches stop & common sense jumps in.


I just wanted to respond at somethin that was said a few posts ago.


Quote: "Seriously think before you claim one prof should get a particular armor. Also someone on one of the first pages posted about Ninja wearing plate armor. They did. They were called Samurai. They wore heavy plate and could move as well in it as out of it. Its all about learning how to wear it. So by the logic that TK shouldnt be allowed to wear Mando cause they are "ninja-like" that is a weak arguement. "


Well as you could expect I don't agree. Ninja were assassins relying on speed & swiftness(no armour at all) and samourai were armoredknights: don't mix up stuff. Maybe there were warriors who could assume both roles (professions?) but they switched equipment and changed their way of fighting when they did. If I "map" this to the game I would say Fencers & TKA are ninja-like and Swordmen are samourai ... (pikeman = heavy infantry?).




Brunerr Hurro, ex-member of the silent majority
GuanYing
Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:26 pm
#506

Midros, I agree with you on a lot of your comments actually. Bruenner, you made a response post, as a sort of response hinting that you qualify as much as Boba Fett. I'm not trying to choose sides here just trying to make a fair assessment from an unbiased position that would also be best for the game.


From my point of view Mandolorian armor should be in the game, but like everyone says, it should be rare but not rediculously impossible to get like RIS armor. I posted a detailed method about a good way to get the armor earlier in this thread so I'll just refresh the main idea a bit. Everyone I think would agree that mandolorian armor would be acceptable in the game as long as it wasn't very common. Composite is the baseline armor now, so its gotta be way tougher to get than that. Obviously you can't have armorsmiths make it without it turning into either the next baseline armor like composite or an armor that doesn't exist like RIS.


Probably the best thing to do would be a complex series of quests to get it. Not the type of quests in the game right now, they need to be really hard ones. To put the quests at the right difficulty, they should be finishable (ie not broken), but tough enough that the BH needs a huge group to help him finish it. Face it, if you can solo the mission its too easy and everyone will have the armor. Not everyone can group verywell though, so make the quests a multi part series all needing a big group and you'll get closer to the ratio of armor to people out there that you're looking for. The drawback to this method is that it would mean that pretty much only guild sponsored hunters would stand a good chance at getting it... Go check out my previous post afew pages back for the descriptive version.


PS: Bruenner, just want to point out that you may have taken down a jedi and Boba Fett didn't, but jedi in this game are a disappointment, and not nearly as capable as they are in the movies.

Trobon18
Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:53 pm
#507




Ok everyone calm down. You are all getting a bit out of proportion here.


That being said its time for me to begin my rant.


First of all I would like to point out that if Mandolorian Armor was BH or Commando or any other elite profession only then it would totaly disrupt Galaxies as a whole. I am a BH and I still say let everyone wear it. No other armor in the game has a certification. Why should we start know just 'cause some BHs are complaining that they don't get anythign special. We frikin' have the fastest Heavy Weapon in the game and get the most speed enhancments. You all say we're not UBER because we can't one shot things.


Secondly I want wookiees to stop right here and now on thier complaints as well. Wookiees have the BEST stats in the game. The only two downsides? 1) They cant talk. (doesn't matter since everyone can understand them anyway.) 2) They can't wear armor. (which they can know) You are already the most bad-ass race. Why do you keep asking for more.


Now I personally feel that jedis should not be allowed to wear this armor. However, I will not say that they should not be able to because I dont think it's fair to change a system just to make it good for the whinners. Personally I feel that the system(s) of jedi are made for people who can be on 16 hours a day, but I don't ask them to change the rules.


Any BH and commando should Thank SoE for putting this in the game at all and should stop complaining every second they get to make it so that only they can use it. You all say that Mandolorians were only mercenaries. But then I ask you this: Who made the armor? Not much is known about the Mandorians but I seriously doubt they were all commandos and BHs. If you really want to go that far make it carbineer only (they get the mercenary title). Any profession can also pick up another weapon profession and then fight and be a merc. if they want.


I stated the question above: Who made the armor? I am not saying this as the same as make it craftable. The mandolorians are dead and their knowledge of the craft is gone. Making it craftable isn't what I was infering.


Finally I would like to thank SoE personally for this opportunity to get this armor. No matter how you do it you have given hope where there was none. for all of you who are prepairred to hunt this armor down... "May the force be with you."
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