Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Declaring overt
That would let you move in armies of safe people to the location of a fight,
and have them all go overt at once and ambush...
**END QUOTE
And ambush what? What exactly would they be ambushing? A couple of overt players? If that's the case, then those overt players' friends would ALSO turn overt and help their friends fight, like they should be able to. Oh dear, then we'd actually have a galactic civil war going on for once. All mayhem would break loose. Well, at least until everyone died and went covert again. Then it would take another catalyst to get it going again. Sounds like a great idea to me.
Sometimes I feel almost as if you guys are being too delicate with some things. It's like you are afraid that someone might get ambushed unfairly and then die once to a bunch of enemies. The problem now is nobody is really fighting anyone, yet the people who choose to play as overts still can get screwed over sometimes.
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Anyway, before someone says "They'd be ambushing enemy bases", let me say that you can easily come up with rules to prevent unfairness as far as THAT is concerned. One thing right off the bat that comes to mind is that a base shouldn't allow any neutrals near its vicinity anyway. I mean, it doesn't make ANY sense for an Imperial or Rebel base to allow some citizens to meander through it: "Oh! You say you aren't a rebel, huh? Sure, come on in and relax a little, we trust you!" There are also the covert sensers as well.
SWG could easily be configured to where players can become overt at will and still be fair, it would just take a couple changes.
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MCM
Lowca
Holocron wrote:
Larathorn wrote:
My opinion, make it so you can declare Overt anywhere, anytime. To become Covert you have to go back to the recruiter and wait an hour. There is no reason that I should have to be within 50m to put on my uniform or flash my military ID and fight for my ideals.
That would let you move in armies of safe people to the location of a fight, and have them all go overt at once and ambush...
Isn't that a tactic that the Alliance would use though???
or are you saying that that would be an unfair advantage????
What about ATST? definate unfair advantage that a novice cook cal call 3 at one or eeven after the patch 1...and with thier overt detectors....
Holo, you mention that if people were allowed to /declare that people would set up ambushes by moving in 30 people safely, then all at once going overt and destroying them all. Well, this is a GALACTIC CIVIL WAR right, Not a sewing circle. If you are overt in a town surrounded by your overt friends, you feel safe. How about if you could be ambushed at any time, how safe would you feel? There should always be a risk when being overt. It's not like te ambush would affect the coverts, unless they also decide to join in.
Here's what your idea of war sounds like to me:
Imperial: So....you wanna fight?
Rebel: Sure. Can i bring some friends?
Imperial: Sure, but only if I can see them coming.
Rebel: Ok, should we meet out in a field or something?
Imperial: You can come to Theed if you want, but you have to wear this red ribbon letting people know you are coming to kill them, and you'll probably get killed at the Starport.
Rebel: Hmmm.....Will your friends join in?
Imperial: Probably, but only if they go get their ribbons first. They'll be the ones running over to Bob. He's our ribbon holder.
Bob: /wave
Rebel: Ok. If I have to clone, can I join the fight again.
Imperial: Sure, but you have to go back home and get another ribbon OR... You can get a Hi-five from a friend already fighting.
Rebel: So like freeze tag?
Imperial: Yeah!! That's it. Freeze tag, with guns though.
Rebel: Ok, see you there in about 45 minutes?
Imperial: Cool.
Why not give this ability to Master Squad Leaders? If we can't get the passive defense / general toughness and damage bonuses to give our groups, or anything really useful besides terrain negotiation, at least give us this so that we are somewhat valuable or useful.
Or anything, really.
Holocron wrote:
Larathorn wrote:
My opinion, make it so you can declare Overt anywhere, anytime. To become Covert you have to go back to the recruiter and wait an hour. There is no reason that I should have to be within 50m to put on my uniform or flash my military ID and fight for my ideals.
That would let you move in armies of safe people to the location of a fight, and have them all go overt at once and ambush...
And this is a problem how exactly? Our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq are faced with this problem on a daily basis, and they don't have the luxury of having covert faction scanners available either! How many times in our history have we seen supposedly neutral/passive bystanders suddenly jump onto one side or another in a battle? It's certainly one of the hallmarks of science-fiction.
I think what needs to be done is that once you go overt you stay that way until you're killed/cloned, or that you have to go through some otherwise tedious procedure to get yourself hidden again. I would also start enforcing some sort of gun control or weapons scanning devices in Imperial-controlled areas. Isn't the open carrying of firearms in Imperial-controlled areas supposed to be illegal? We're fighting in the Wild West in this game. Visible display of a weapon or if we had a scanner that detected weapons larger than pistol would automatically give you a TEF if you weren't officially neutral orImperial faction. Even then, you could be fined by the local authorities if you didn't have a permit for carrying. I just find it a little unbelievable that every corner of the known galaxy is equal to theMos Eisley cantina in that regard---every creature beware.
Here's the deal-
When you declare anywhere-
It cost you FP (something small like-10-20)
You can only do it once every hour (like battlefields)
Your declaration kicks in 60 seconds after you declare
You cannot declare within a certain range of enemy defenses.
switching back to covert must be done at a recruiter (or when you find yourself walking out of a cloning center ;-)
When you declare within 50m of a recruiter:
It costs you nothing.
You can do it over and over without time constraints
Your declaration is immediate
Declaring anywhere would allow you to set up ambushes on groups or cities and what have you. More people would declare and therefore more would participate in the GCW. Putting a FP cost on it gives one incentive to seek a recruiter but it doesn't cost so much as to discourage doing it yourself.
Keeping it so that you can only declare once an hour will prevent endless "Tef-War" like battles. If you declare yourself without a recruiter then die you are covert for the following remainder of the hour. This time could be increased as well-
Not having the declaration kick in immediately is there to make someone think before they declare. You can't just declare and run in to a battle with a bunch of people. You would need to coordinate and declare together. Someone who declares too soon may give up their position. Also- this staggers people coming to the aid of others too quickly. This is more of a tactics rule than anything else.
And of course you shouldn't be able to declare inside someones base- Unless you are a smuggler. But even then there should be some penalty- maybe more faction points.
All of this is bonus and at the sametime doesn't take away the incentive to see a recruiter to go overt.
Now the big question is:
If I go overt myself. Get killed. Then come out of the cloning center and go to a recruiter- Can I have him make me overt again?
The answer should be:
No.
This would give defenders with recruiters in their base a near impossivle advantage.
Now chew on that bone ya'll!!
Tevin Stargunner
Master Artisan
Radiant
ImperialCommando1138 wrote:
Holocron wrote:
Larathorn wrote:
My opinion, make it so you can declare Overt anywhere, anytime. To become Covert you have to go back to the recruiter and wait an hour. There is no reason that I should have to be within 50m to put on my uniform or flash my military ID and fight for my ideals.
That would let you move in armies of safe people to the location of a fight, and have them all go overt at once and ambush...
And this is a problem how exactly? Our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq are faced with this problem on a daily basis, and they don't have the luxury of having covert faction scanners available either! How many times in our history have we seen supposedly neutral/passive bystanders suddenly jump onto one side or another in a battle? It's certainly one of the hallmarks of science-fiction.
I think what needs to be done is that once you go overt you stay that way until you're killed/cloned, or that you have to go through some otherwise tedious procedure to get yourself hidden again. I would also start enforcing some sort of gun control or weapons scanning devices in Imperial-controlled areas. Isn't the open carrying of firearms in Imperial-controlled areas supposed to be illegal? We're fighting in the Wild West in this game. Visible display of a weapon or if we had a scanner that detected weapons larger than pistol would automatically give you a TEF if you weren't officially neutral orImperial faction. Even then, you could be fined by the local authorities if you didn't have a permit for carrying. I just find it a little unbelievable that every corner of the known galaxy is equal to theMos Eisley cantina in that regard---every creature beware.
Actually the open carrying of fire arms was only banned in the specific areas where the Empire had imposed martial law. If you look at the state of the galaxy, even under the rule of the Republic, most planets were dangerous places and the populace were allowed to protect themselves. Heck ... even with all the Stormtroopers and such in Mos Eisley Han and Gweedo were both carrying weapons openly and I believe that there were other visible weapons there as well ... and that was WITH Imperial presence.
Now ... I could see cities comming under Imperial martial law from time to time ... depending on the city ... and Imperials running checks on people traveling through the city. Covert detectors are ... well ... unrealistic really ... what's it detecting? Comm gear? like any Covert in their right mind would be carrying active comm gear, ID Badges? Again ... Coverts would know about scanners and simply wouldn't carry any such devices. A subdermally planted faction membership indicator? like either side would implant such a thing. In fact I'd go so far as to say that the only people you should KNOW are in your own faction are those that are Overt, and those coverts that willingly reveal themselves to you with a /revealfaction <name> command or radial menu selection .... this way I can be sitting in a bar surrounded by blue dots ... those dots could be other rebels that I just don't know, could be covert Imperials, or neutral... Your 'weapon' detector idea is interesting but within the current game mechanics ... pretty much everyone carries a weapon you can't TEF Neutrals (and many of them will yell and scream if anything involving the GCW affects their gameplay (IE if there character is forced to pay fines when caught with a weapon.) ... also you can't technically assume that anyone with a weapon that isn't a Imperial is a rebel ... many Bounty Hunters are neutral and the BH profession in general was not Imperial controled (though often hired by the Imperials) and would have been licensed to carry weapons even in areas under martial law...... I think this would be great for RP ... but you'd have to be very very careful about how you implement it to limit griefing potential......
I like the idea.
This is kind of on tpoic .. could there be an option added to cancel the 60 minute dountdown to covert once it's started?
This could also come in handy when running past gangs that don't really like you.
...okay it's a little off topic.
Tevin Stargunner
Radiant
"I don't like you. My friend doesn't like you either..."
Holocron wrote:
Larathorn wrote:My opinion, make it so you can declare Overt anywhere, anytime. To become Covert you have to go back to the recruiter and wait an hour. There is no reason that I should have to be within 50m to put on my uniform or flash my military ID and fight for my ideals.
That would let you move in armies of safe people to the location of a fight, and have them all go overt at once and ambush...
ok, so to solve this problem...
if you're within 100m of an opposite faction recruiter or mission terminal.
however, now that i think about it, it would be very easy still for groups to ambush lone overts, and they dont have the chance to run away.
however, you have to realise, in star wars, that's what you describe is called "tactics"...i know this a new concept for you mmorpg programmers who've never played war games
but it's perfectly legitimate to sneak people in, and then they suddenly bust out a gun and start shooting everything up in the SW universe.
if you ask me, I think any player with an officer rank be allowed to assist any covert faction member to go overt, anywhere and anytime. And where are those tags next to our names with factional rank?
another thing, rebels do outnumber imperials, so make the game have a limit per server/per planetto disallow recruits (faction members)to go overt, but allow them to get faction points. In order to make it fair, give the rebels some sort of tank, that only overt members can use. And stop nerfing whats not broken or unfair already. in question AT-STs have been nerfed, but if you look at it once it's dead it cannot be used. Ok fine, I can understand that.. but then lower the cost, since it's now only PvP there won't be alot seen anymore. Expesualy since they are easily killed by commandos. Or keep the price on them and make them repairable or something along those lines... I mean give me a break. the human factional pets.. yeah they can't really be repaired now can they? But thats my 2 cents worth. And yes, I know, rebels will flame me for what I've said more than likely, to those that do.. "the truth hurts don't it?"
Just a side note.
Reason I went Imperial, is because I'm not trying to be another Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, or anyone else from the movie. Maybe I don't want to be the good guy.