Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Crafting Critical Failure Rates

Svenholio
Thu Feb 05, 2004 7:54 am
#456

Not read all the pages yet, so please no flame if i am behind.


defintely crit fail to many times when crafting a final item, so far it has never (really stressing the memory here) happened when crafting a sub component, only when combing them. Craft tool quality has no effect, same as the stations. High or low quality has no effect on crit, it all seems dubious to me.


Also, the crit mid range failures and success are well broken. You can get what appears to be a med succes, and the scoes on the item can drop all the way down to a crit failure result, yet med fails done do anything. From what I can see on this, if you succed, in any way, points should be added, if you fail, nothing happens, then you start losing stuff from bad failures to crit failures. The way experimentation works now is very wrong.



l SVENHOLIO SPACESLIDER l
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FLUKED 1 FREE UNLOCK AFTER DOING 6 PROFS NO HOLOS
Chavabegga
Thu Feb 05, 2004 9:55 am
#457

Crafting is wacky. A week ago I was in a research center at a 41 crafting station, using a 13.86 crafting tool and I was getting amazing successes and great successes. Once in a blue moon it would be a failure. Today, the research center has been removed from our city and I 2 out of ten experiments as greats, the rest were good, moderates, or outright failures. It was not this bad before we had research center. Does having it mean when you remove it experimenting sucks?

Then there is crit failure on assembly. I made some rocket launchers. Crit failed on one. Tried again. Crit failed. Twice in a row. I lost 78 subcomponents. Not a very good day in the world of crafting.

And on another note why is everything below great success a failure? The terms are good and moderate SUCCESS. Why do they lower the stats? That sounds like a failure to me. So to my count there are 4 ways to fail (crit fails, failures, moderate SUCCESSES, and good SUCCESSES) while only two ways to succeeed great and amazing. A little lopsided.



Trader Revamp- Loot and Crafted Symbiosis

UDF Inc. Chu'unthor, Talus
-1258, -566
The_Elder_Silverhawk
Thu Feb 05, 2004 11:17 am
#458

OK I started to read this from beginning and then got bored. My suggestion is that you get off the test server and do your study on the working servers. The Developers of AC learned the hard way that the code functions differently under the heavey pressure of constant use by thousands rather than hundreds of users.

Don't tell me it doesn't. It does. There are just too many connecting threads to be sure you do not have a cross over. Also, it is just too easy for an error to make it live that does not make itself known on the test server.

Why do I suggest this? Because your 4.21% Critical failure rate does not apply to my charactor. I get a critical failure every four experimentation attempts per item. If I do single experimentation steps, I will get a critical failure between attempt 3 and 5 every item I make. This is in the Architect line. I have tested with Deep Crust, Heavy Natural Gas, and Heavy Mineral. I also decided to try it with items that have no benefit from experimentation and guess what. 25% criticl failure rate.

How have I resolved this and stayed in business? I now add experimentation points until I go above zero chance of failure. I then remove one and experiment. No failure. When I get to BER 13 I quit period. Also, I took off all my skill mod clothing and the numbers were the same. So not sure if they even help. Since I only have +8 to experimentation, I believe I can not make a call there. Was told you need +10 to have any addition to experiment.

Here is result of one run I made. All material, even walls and structure modules were at 96% or better.

1 Deep Crust at BER 13 (first try)
5 Deep Crust at BER 12 (1 critical during experimentation)
4 Deep Crust at BER 11 (2 criticals during experimentation)

After my method above

9 Deep Crust at BER 13
1 Deep Crust at BER 12 (first attempt)

I have three factories all making components at the highest experimentation rate for each.
I will now assemble and experiment until I get a BEr 13 and make a schematic. This assures I will get BER 13s in quantity for sale, but will raise the cost slightly as I must waste the materials for the schematic. This seems to be wrong to me. A master is not supposed to have to rely on a factory in order to produce consistency; he does it by his knowledge and expertice. I should be able to hand make a BER 13 90-95% of the time, not 5-10%

My 2 cents worth.

T'Elder

BTW Kurt, are you the same Kurt from the early AC days? If so, you know how to pull this game into the realm it can be.
LadyLeala
Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:20 pm
#459

I haven't done any sort of in depth analysis of percentages here, nor do I really care...


But I will say this:


When I go to click on "Run experiment" I actually hold my breath almost every time. With a 5% failure rate, how could that possibly be? Why am I so fearful of failure? It's simple. Because I fail a LOT. Master Architect, using tools with 14.19, and a station with 41.75 rating.... should I really be failing this much on experimentation?


I get an order of 5 Gas harvestors, and I COUNT on having to make 7 because 2 out of 5 are going to get botched. Well, as any architect will know, Gas harvestors require a TON of my best resources... so I had to raise the price astronomically, and now I generally just try to talk those people into the medium gas harvestors instead.


I just thought I'd post what I've been experiencing. I don't really care. In the long run, I succeed more than I fail. But it is certainly frustrating being a master and failing so much.



Wayfarer's Designs

Relocating on CHILASTRA

CLOSED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE


Thunderheart
Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:00 pm
#460







hasibert wrote:


can we get this for every item in the game (such as RIS armors, weapons)?

it would be nice for armorsmiths to keep the rare loots and for weaponsmiths to keep the krayt tissues....




Thats a good idea and I've been working with Logix and Jaato Walls (Weaponsith and Armorsmith Correspondents) on that. I'll definately see what I can do.





Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
Community Relations Manager
Kevm
Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:09 pm
#461






Thunderheart wrote:






hasibert wrote:


can we get this for every item in the game (such as RIS armors, weapons)?

it would be nice for armorsmiths to keep the rare loots and for weaponsmiths to keep the krayt tissues....




Thats a good idea and I've been working with Logix and Jaato Walls (Weaponsith and Armorsmith Correspondents) on that. I'll definately see what I can do.









PLEASE TH....have the BE correspondent look into this for BE's too. With the amount of time needed to get DNA samples (especially from Mutant Rancors), having to use 5 samples to make 1 template, and then recraft the template to make a clone. A critical failure anywhere in that crafting process means a loss of 5 DNA samples whichusuallymeans hours worth of work. These DNA samples cannot be gotten with harvesters or AFK sampling. This is actually hours worth of play time that can be wasted on a single crit failure anywhere in the double crafting process.


Please let us know if you think BE's should also recieve the same kind of 'relief' the Jedi are.




Kreegan Lirpa
MBE - Cairdeas City - Wanderhome

Kreegan's BE Pets and Tissues - Cairdeas City, Naboo (7378 -6482)
Kreegan's Pet Meds - Right outside Coronet on the Map!
LuthianP
Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:10 pm
#462

TH you might as well make it so Jedi's are invulnerable to attacks because that is going to be the next thing you super devs do. You are making the Ultimate goal become the Ultimate joke.
GotharMarath
Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:16 pm
#463





PLEASE TH....have the BE correspondent look into this for BE's too. With the amount of time needed to get DNA samples (especially from Mutant Rancors), having to use 5 samples to make 1 template, and then recraft the template to make a clone. A critical failure anywhere in that crafting process means a loss of 5 DNA samples whichusuallymeans hours worth of work. These DNA samples cannot be gotten with harvesters or AFK sampling. This is actually hours worth of play time that can be wasted on a single crit failure anywhere in the double crafting process.


Please let us know if you think BE's should also recieve the same kind of 'relief' the Jedi are.




Please? Pretty please?


I crit failed 15 of my best samples last night.I could have lost 150K harvestable materials and not been as upset or lost as much time and effort.... Sob! My poor DNA.....




Gothar Marath
I used to keep my nose to the grindstone in hopes of succeeding through hard work and persistance. Unfortunately I have been grinding so long, the stone has burned through most of my face and into the back of my skull.
MonroeThanes
Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:17 pm
#464

great news!


death to all aliens! i mean- free soda for all aliens!


just unlocked on superbowl sunday 30min before kickoff, having a great time with jedi and like all the changes presented so far, makes the profession very engaging and fun, guess ill save my 3 pearls for after publish 7



I'm Monroe Thanes and I approve of this message.
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Rizzaka
Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:19 pm
#465






Thunderheart wrote:






hasibert wrote:


can we get this for every item in the game (such as RIS armors, weapons)?

it would be nice for armorsmiths to keep the rare loots and for weaponsmiths to keep the krayt tissues....




Thats a good idea and I've been working with Logix and Jaato Walls (Weaponsith and Armorsmith Correspondents) on that. I'll definately see what I can do.








Although i am not a crafter i am well aware of the games economy and what these rare items mean to them. They are hard to obtain i agree however insuring that EVERY single one of them is usefull with either increase their price or drive them down, most likely depending on the server. Instead of saying "okay now all your rare items don't go bye bye when you crit fail" perhaps make a second equasion into cafting (yes i know this would likely take alot of programming) where once a crit fail does occur there is another 'roll' to see if the crit fail damaged the rare item. Thus it would give you a CHANCE to save the item instead of just saying "okay go make tons and tons of RIS armor and other stuff thats supposed to be really rare"






Drrty · Bothan of DOOOOOOOM
Zabuza · Demon of the Mist
· Prince of Endor ·
learn to adapt to the situation you have put your character in. i do not need to adapt my proffesion to accomodate yours.

Cafa
Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:19 pm
#466

TY very much TH! Appreciate some feedback! Even if it's not about architects!


Fivo Asia





- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella

JediMasterCarlito
Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:22 pm
#467

I'm not a crafter myself (outside of "holo" grinding), but my sister (Master Artisan, Master Tailor, Master Merchant) and wife (Master Bio-Engineer) both play crafting professions. My wife has been fuming the last few days as she's getting critical failure rates at almost 45%! My sister is getting them at almost 14%, which is not good but far better off than my wife.


After spending several hours of sample high level creatures, at one point she critically failed 3 straight times attempting to create DNA templates. This used to not be the case before mid-December. What happened? This is very troublesome, and is making the game more frustrating than fun, which I'm sure is something the Devs didn't intend.


I don't think failures need to be removed, because there should be some risk involved in crafting, but failing 45% of the time at Master? Something has got to be fixed!




Vamir Daba Hermit of Naboo Eclipse
Sarynn Daba Jedi Knight Eclipse

Star Wars Galaxies Developers: "Much work remains to be done before we can announce our total failure to make any progress."

MonroeThanes
Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:24 pm
#468

oh and as a weaponsmith i can agree with getting back the tissues, but i do want to point out that a krayt gun or a nyms VK is different from a lightsaber, a lightsaber requires these rare loot components while the tissues and high velocity vibromotors are optional components to a weapons that, debatedly, doesnt need them. id like to see this work with krayt scales, nightsister armor components, and janta hides too.telling customers i critical failed on their krayt weaponputs a sour taste in my mouthso i can agree with getting the enhancers back.


RIS armor should work the same way as lightsabersisince it requires loot, as well as the soon to come Geonosian Reinforcement Core (needs looted power cubes)for the sythe.


great work SOE, this is a change for the better



now all thats left


*waves hand*


jedi will be able to become neutral.....



I'm Monroe Thanes and I approve of this message.
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Vote Democrat! They've got a traitor and an ambulance chaser this time around!
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