Development Cycle Archive
Thread: In-Concept Open Discussion
Here are my issues with player cities as of now:
-No security.
City warn has been taken out, so there is pretty much no way of keeping bad players out of town. That's not to say that things were fine withit there, it wasalso used as a tool togrief players.
-Mayor abuse.
We've allprobably read at least one thread now about how an angryMayor on his way out decided to cripple the city on his last day in office, taking away all of the service buildings with him. What is the point in joining a city if you can't trust the leaders not to take everything away in a fit of anger?
-No faction indication.
There is no clear way for an overt Rebel or an overt Imperial to know what cities he/she should step foot in. Nobody wants to risk getting shot up just by walking through a covert detector, so the path of least resistance is to just not look around those player cities.
-They don't look like cities.
Coronet has skyscrapers going off into the clouds, paved roads from one end of town to another, and gates to border off the city from the outside world. Player cities have none of this. If there is one thing that player cities should get, it should be the ability to pave their ground flat. It would go a long way to make them look like real towns instead of just a cluster of buildings.
-Unreliable population.
I can tell you that there have been a number of times since player cities were implemented, when I would decide to visit a player town only to find nobody there. Perhaps, being somebody who sticks around Coronet had made to expect too much but what's the use of going to ghost towns?
If you ask me, adding occupation to NPC buildings would do everybody a favor. The people who just have a house or take up residence in a player city because they have no other choice could relocate in NPC cities, and the dedicated player city residents will probably get a few city slots opened up for them to use.
TheMDude wrote:
-They don't look like cities.
Coronet has skyscrapers going off into the clouds, paved roads from one end of town to another, and gates to border off the city from the outside world. Player cities have none of this. If there is one thing that player cities should get, it should be the ability to pave their ground flat. It would go a long way to make them look like real towns instead of just a cluster of buildings.
true but there should be an option to convert the land in a player city to paving
TheMDude wrote:
-Mayor abuse.
We've allprobably read at least one thread now about how an angryMayor on his way out decided to cripple the city on his last day in office, taking away all of the service buildings with him. What is the point in joining a city if you can't trust the leaders not to take everything away in a fit of anger
well there needs to be a way so citizens can vote on changes, so citizens vote on things like removing buildings and other things. or so that there is some sorta city council that votes on changes
TheMDude wrote:
-No security.
City warn has been taken out, so there is pretty much no way of keeping bad players out of town. That's not to say that things were fine withit there, it wasalso used as a tool togrief players.
true, but there are bad players no matter where you go
in the end though i'd have to agree, keeping them in NPC cities would be better, it may also mean the growth of NPC cities, which i wouldn't be against
i believe that when they first put an FAQ onto the SWG website back...along time ago it had something about this, something to do with players having to follow orders and rules of engagment and stuff and how you couldn't experience the game very well that way....something like that, someone correct me if i'm wrong
LordDixch wrote:
I still dont under stand why there is no military profession like storm troopers
TheMDude you put forward quite a few, well put together arguments against player-city apartments, and voice some dislike for player-cities in general. I'll try to adress those as I can.
(Danger, paraphrasing ahead!)
Q - Who would want to have an apartment in a playercity when they can have a house?
A - I would
Q - Playercities are dead, why not have apartments in the NPC cities to bring life to them?
A - You complain that player cities are dead (you mention being used to the bustle of Coronet), well, what reason would people have to leave the NPC cities if they could live, work, sell and everything in an NPC city? Doing so would only make your complaint about empty playercities worse.
Q - Playercities have no security - how can we keep bad player out?
A - There are more ways of dissuading a 'bad' player to leave a playercity, than an NPC city. At least you can stop them using your facitlities. No wat of doing that in an NPC city (and there shouldn't be).
Q - How can you trust a mayor not to destroy the city on their way out?
A - Pick a good one
Q - Why don't player cities look like NPC cities? Can we get paved roads at least?
A - Well, apart from the fact that a paid level/world builder or 12 have sat lovingly creating the NPC cities long before the game went live...
But anyway, this game is still fairly new - playercities only moreso. They will be improved with time
And people always have a choice as to whether they want to be part of a player city. They don't have to build their house within the bounds of a city, they don't have to declare residence if they don't want to vote. No one walks up to them with a vibrolance and makes them do it 
Hope that was what you were talking about.
How about small HAM increases with each skill box gained. Maybe even limit this to elite professions only.
By small i mean around +25-50 for primary stats such as health, action, and mind, and around +10-15 for secondary stats such as willpower, constitution, and stamina.
Tinkergirl wrote:
TheMDude you put forward quite a few, well put together arguments against player-city apartments, and voice some dislike for player-cities in general. I'll try to adress those as I can.
Q - Who would want to have an apartment in a playercity when they can have a house?
A - I would
Fair enough.
Q - Playercities are dead, why not have apartments in the NPC cities to bring life to them?
A - You complain that player cities are dead (you mention being used to the bustle of Coronet), well, what reason would people have to leave the NPC cities if they could live, work, sell and everything in an NPC city? Doing so would only make your complaint about empty playercities worse.
Well, I think that if apartments were only in NPC cities, it would raise the bar for player citycommunitycommitment. If such an alternative was available, the people who weren't that loyal to their city would pack up and move to the NPC towns, leaving the cities that actually have significant, dedicated peoplestanding. Guilds, PAs, or just huge groups that really want to make a community will flourish, while more casual groups will pushed to try harder or fold. I think that's good for everybody involved.
I'm going to guess that you're involved with a player city community. If not, imagine that you're part of a player city with a whole lot friends you like. Thatand you'vespent so much time dedicated to the city.If NPC citys got apartments and shops tomorrow, would you abandon your town?
Q - Playercities have no security - how can we keep bad player out?
A - There are more ways of dissuading a 'bad' player to leave a playercity, than an NPC city. At least you can stop them using your facitlities. No wat of doing that in an NPC city (and there shouldn't be).
Yes you're right. There are more ways to dissuade bad players from player cities, but as you also said, that's the way it should be. NPC cities are for everybody. But I think that it would be a nice perk for player city residents to have some real order in a PC town. Some jerk is stomping around with his huge creature? kick him out. Some guy is spamming? kick him out. People are fighting in what's supposed to be a peaceful city? kick him out.
Let's hope that when the devs reinstate city warn, it works for everybody.
Q - How can you trust a mayor not to destroy the city on their way out?
A - Pick a good one
If such a voting system is put in then good. For now though, any angry Mayor can tear the town apart on a whim and that's a problem.
Q - Why don't player cities look like NPC cities? Can we get paved roads at least?
A - Well, apart from the fact that a paid level/world builder or 12 have sat lovingly creating the NPC cities long before the game went live...
Fair enough. I just hope that if the devs can flatten land to make camps, lairs and bases, they can do the same for cities.
But anyway, this game is still fairly new - playercities only moreso. They will be improved with time
And people always have a choice as to whether they want to be part of a player city. They don't have to build their house within the bounds of a city, they don't have to declare residence if they don't want to vote. No one walks up to them with a vibrolance and makes them do it
Hope that was what you were talking about.
Player Cities.
If the cost of NPC city living is just too much for people, then they could just take the path of least resistance and set up shop or plop down a home(ormaybe an apartment)in a player city. This would be an incentive for people to just not go running into Coronet at the first sign of NPC building apartments and shops.
Hotels.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=38100
Only usable as single room storage, these hotels would cost low enough for a newbie to pay for but too high for any person to reasonably stick around at.
Low income buildings.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=38101
Pretty much scrapping bottom of the barrel here. For newbies and people who just like the 'ghetto life.'
These would be used only as single houses or shops.Lower Middle buildings.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=38102
For people who aren't poor enough to get a lower house but aren't rich enough to get an upper middle house. These buildings could be used as two floor shops, on shop on top of the otheror onehouse on top of the other.
Upper Middle buildings.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=38103
These should be the buildings that just about everybody could afford (since they're so many of them around). They could either be used as two floor shops, one shop of on top ofthe otheror one apartment on top of the other.
High class skyscrapers.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=38105
This would be the highest (literally) you could go. Only the richest would be able to take up a home or shop in the Coronet skyline. Full of apartments and big shops, it would truely be the center of the city like every downtown area should be.
What do you think?
I think these types of discussions are very important for the future of all the classes, not just TKA. The main reason is character advancement. I was thinking about this earlier today and for several days. What I miss the most, and why I think so many people decided to holo-grind, is seeing their character advance. Everyone loves to see the xp growing and looking forward to doing new things. Most classes can be mastered in days, if not hours. So what do you do after that?
Elite/elite classes would be an answer to character advancement. I liken it to EverQuest and their Alternate Advancement points. Basically it's a way to further advance your character after you've maxed the level of it. Gaining special abilities at a high experience price. In SWG elite/elite classes would seem to be the answer.
All elite classes could have further advancement open up to them. This just happens to be the TKA board. The requirements would be much higher than the regular trees and thus more specialised. Maybe each block only grants one small or specific bonus. But having these extra blocks filled would noticeably set you apart from people that choose not to go that route or have yet not been able to fill them. Characters, now, tend to be pretty generic. There is no real uber characters mostly due to generic templates and also lack of high end loot.
Elite/elite classes would give you the option to set yourself apart from other similar classes. ATeras Kasi Mastyermay be good against a Rancor, but a Teras Kasi Grandmaster (or what ever it ends up being called) could take on several night sisters or something equivalent. Same witha Master Pistoleer and it's elite counterpart. Maybe a certain elite/elite box would give you extra regen points, an extra 10% kinetic resist, +10 to your damage, the possibilities are endless.
Elite/elite classes, or something equivalent will be introduced eventually. The lack of content in this game thus far will force them to do it. People get bored too easily if they can no longer improve their character. Weapons are getting close to max damage they will allow, armor is hitting 90+% resists. They've got to allow for some type of growth. Elite/elite classes would solve that problem and after the combat balance would not be that difficult to impliment.
Forgot the link to the original thread. It wouldn't let me edit the original post so here it is.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=teras_kasi_artist&message.id=50076
I think that this game is done, seems there is an ending it is called "I AM BORED!! OFF TO BETA TEST WORLD OF WARCRAFT FOR FREE!! and notPAY to BETA TEST SWG!!!"
Sorry if I come off like an ass here, but **edit**! this game is messed right up. There is like no loot at all.. (wow a pearl or a crystal who cares) why do you think people are selling pearls and crystals oh and holos for so much? because (jedi are supost to be rare, but arn't due to the easy GRINDING!!) There is no other worth while loot out there.. Skill tape LOL ok sure.. HAHA funny.
I love how when first creating my charector (can't spell) I was given so many options as to how he/she would look, why tho? everyone is just a colour.. (A COLOUR OF COMPOSITE ARMOR!!!) weapons lets see we have like.. 2 or 2 weapons for each class. the list of 1 or 2 specific items goes on and on.
Missions if you want to call them that.. (walk/drive here shoot it, walk/drive find it take it back, walk/drive survey it make it, etc..) after you have done one you have done them all.
PvP that is messed up too.. I an't going to get in to this it will just make me mad.
Crafting classes are pointless, u make the exact same things day in day out... talk about boring!! wow you get alot of credits you can't do anything with!
Bounty Hunters are pointless WOW NPC missions SWEET!! done one done them all... jedi missions maybe if jedi were not such pussies! Where are the player bounties?
Smugglers Underworld... LOL **edit**!! so waste!!! nothing to do here at all. there is like no content!
ETC!!! so messed up!
1. there is 1 type of armor in this game that people use.. COMPOSITE (1 million credits +)
2. there are like 1 or 2 weapons used by each class.
3. Missions are pointless
4. PVP is messed up
5. Classes are goofed (skills are pointless. Underworld, Investigation etc)
with the right class you can solo almost everything in the game.
There is no reason to interact with people, aside from /shout and doctors selling buffs, or /shout anyone selling <ITEM>
I just don't see the point.... THIS GAME IS OVER for me.. because there is nothing left to do..
I have 0 skill points left, I have over 5 million credits, some 50 guns... more like 10 of the same guns x 5,5 full sets of composite armor, all possible clothing in the game, 3 houses full of random Krayt loot, skil tapes, holos, crystals.
My question is what is there left to do? aside from the same old.... and I mean OLD!!!
Sorry to compare this game to others but it kinda makes me laff... SWG vs. Diablo 2 lets see..
Here is a list of the things you can do in both games.
1. play with friends onlinegroup/hunt etc
2. advance my dude
3. do quests
4. get loot
5. be part of a guild/community
6. play solo
7. pay $50 for the game (Box)
9. get new patches with new items etc
10. trade items/buy new/used items
Here are the Pros of Diablo 2
1. NO MONTHLY FEE
Here are the Cons of Diablo 2
1. smaller game world
2. less customisation
Pros of SWG
1. bigger game world
Cons of SWG
1. have to pay almost $20 CDN a month to play it.
2. playing the BETA of a game
3. little to no support for the $20 a month I am paying
4. UPDATES are few and far between for the $ I am paying.
5. lack of content/loot
6. identical static missions as diablo 2.
7. game imbalances.
Now from a money point of view. at one point in time I remember reading the SWG had about 500,000 subscriptions. 500,000 x $15 = $7,500,000 THAT IS 7.5 MILLION DOLLARS A MONTH IN SUBSCRIPTIONS ALONE!! forget about the $50-80 it cost to buy the game origonally.
All this above said and done I want to know what my subscription pays for..
Diablo 2 (battle.net) 100,000 + users on it 24/7*365 FREE!
Diablo 2 patches around what 6 of them? 1 every 7-8 months FREE!!
LOD exp pack $40 cool.
Staffing around 4-6 developers to provide the patches for the game. FREE!!
Staffing 10 people for customer support etc.. FREE!!
SO WHAT DOES MY SWG SUBSCRIPTION PAY FOR??
I know I an't getting any sex out of it.. so what am I getting?
How big is the SWG development team? what are your working hours? how many servers are there total for SWG? how much bandwidth do you use? WHERE ARE THE COSTS? and why is it NOT FREE like Diablo 2.
Sure say diablo 2 is old.. graphics aside, small game worlds.. it still has 100's of more items then SWG!! hack and slash diablo 2 > SWG !!
I just hope SWG and SOE take a leason from Blizzard and watch how sexy they make WORLD OF WARCRAFT!!
/endrant!