Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Crafting Critical Failure Rates
Rosar
Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:46 am
#379
What the critical fail rates should befor assembly.
Masters shouldhave a1.667% crit chancewith a 16.667% chance of loss ofhalf of the resources and a 25% chance of total loss. They should also get a .02% chance of increasing all the attributes of the resourcesused by 30%.
Novice shouldhave a10% critchance with a 100% chance of losing all resources and components
Saber crafting should on a crit destroy the crystal or the saber not both lose
What the fail rates should be for experimentation
Master should get a 2% chance of a negative outcome. They should also have a .02% chance of getting a experimentation that would fill bars 20% over there max(not to sure how this will effect bio engineer).
Novice should have a 6% chance of a negative outcome
Decrease all percents equally for every assembly and experimentation skillbox gained rounding up to the nearest thousandth. give the bonuses to mastersonly(not for someone that has +15 experimentation or assembly tapes, but still work them into the equation for critical failures on assembly onesand points gained on experimentation ones)
think that would make thingsa bit more interesting and bearable
Vorg
Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:29 am
#380
Thunderheart wrote:
Vashner wrote:
Will removing fizzles unbalance SWG and it's economy? NO.. will it threaten people learing crafting professions NO. ...
Then why do we have it?
For the same reason there are critical fails in all games. There is a chance for critical fail and also critical successes. Its a great risk vs reward mechanic. Its game play. Without risk versus reward, there is no "game".
There isn't an RPG out there that doesnt include a chance for failure and "crit fails".
THat's just plain BULL. I never saw a fail in EVE, Horizons, or Shadowbane and I don't recall ever having one in DAOC when was playing that. And a games should be fun and I don't find having a lot of work distroyed be a fail during ANY part of the crafting system fun.
And we don't need any more sinks!! I hardly make enough to monitor the resources on Tatooine, Corellia and Talus for quality spawns and harvestor maintance. Traveling to 3 planets everyday, to try and get samples to see what's there, with no ingame system for keeping track short of storing all teh samples or writing all that crap down and no way to know how long a spawn will last if you don't track it (real world you know how much is there before starting a mining operation), Then once you get good resources AND good tools spend all that time building all the layers of parts and have it become worthless is NOT fun.
NancyJ
Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:24 pm
#381
There were many fails in DAoC - but you hardly lost any materials - and when you crafted an item you could salvage it to get back some of the resources.... its also known as one of the most dull and tedious crafting systems ever devised.
PunkRod
Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:27 pm
#382
Thunderheart wrote:
Stick with me guys, thats what Im saying.
First of all, its a good mechanic, but in this setting the risk and penalty have to be measured and thats whats being discussed...
My issues with weaponsmith...
Using 40.87 station, and 12.84 weapon crafting tools, master weaponsmith obviously.
Crafted 5 DH17 for an order... 1 critical failure (lost component and ressources), 3 experimentation failures (lost my experimentation points), only 1 went good.
Crafted 8 grenades to make a schematic : 7experimentation failures, 1 went almost good...
This is my common problems with weaponsmithing. And when I happen to use krayt tissues or other rare items I'm always afraid of the outcome (critical experimentation failure on first,critical failure during assemblyon my second core... waiting for luck to craft again... thanks there are 5 uses to this schematic !)
so I think, there is a problem in the weaponsmith failures... Dunno if you tried this yourself but as a weaponsmith, ressources are a very big task, and when it comes to assembly the failure rate is really awfull sometimes... I understand failing can happen, but when a master needs 20 tries and 30 minutes to make a schematic for grenades, the kind that even novice can make, it really hurts...
PunkRod
Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:31 pm
#383
take this post as an "edit message" feature
PunkRod wrote:
This is my common problems with weaponsmithing. And when I happen to use krayt tissues or other rare items I'm always afraid of the outcome ( rare items such as geonosian sword core : critical experimentation failure on first,critical failure during assemblyon my second core... waiting for luck to craft again... thanks there are 5 uses to this schematic !)
PunkRod
Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:37 pm
#384
btw if you read my previous post, my 9th grenade went as a critical failure... should I continue ?
Dagrin
Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:14 pm
#385
So, if I'm hearing this right, the current "solution" is to consider a "safety net" for some list of high end items similar to what architects currently get during final assembly.... I'm curious, does this seem satisfactory to any of the game players?
I must say that I sure don't. To me the entirety of the game's crafting system is really not fun at all. Sure the rewards are there, but it's not a pleasing experience over all (Admittedly this is primarily due to the limited number of quality items that crafters can make without being masters). TH says that without risk, it's no longer a game. While that might be true, is pretty sorry excuse for the current flaws in the system.
I must say that I sure don't. To me the entirety of the game's crafting system is really not fun at all. Sure the rewards are there, but it's not a pleasing experience over all (Admittedly this is primarily due to the limited number of quality items that crafters can make without being masters). TH says that without risk, it's no longer a game. While that might be true, is pretty sorry excuse for the current flaws in the system.
I feel that the entire crafting process needs to be reworked from the ground up, while this might sound impractical, I should clarify that it is the concepts of the crafting system that need work, the actual programming would not necessarily require a full rewrite. I despise the argument that "this is how crafting is done in other games". Just because everyone else has been making these mistakes doesn't mean this game should.
Ok, so my question is, while maintaining risk, what would make the crafting system of SWG more enjoyable to the crafter, without removing all risk? The key is to balance that risk with the experience of the crafter and the knowledge of the crafter in choosing the right materials and correctly using the system.
Suggestions:
I personally feel that a total loss of all materials for a critical failure is unfair to anyone when crafting any item, no matter how simple. It is not a fair balance with the critical success which is usually just a marginal increase in value for the item. I think a better system would be to have a percentage loss on resources:
Upon failure:
1. For basic resources used in the assembly you will loose a ratio of the total. Perhaps based on the item complexity you might loose 10% to 50% of the resources. (there might also be a modifier to recover a larger % depending on your crafting skills).
2. Complex components and rare resources should never be lost through failure, but rather have a percentage decrease in quality values. (ei: A liquid suspension might have a 10% drop in power if there was a failure when crafting the stim, a force cystal might loose 10% to overall quality and other stats if your fail to make your light saber). Again the quantity of the drop will be based on the item created, and skill of the crafter to recover.
Under these rules failures could actually be more frequent then they are now when under poor conditions (bad tools, high complexity, over experimenting), perhaps even allow a critical fail while experimenting to cause the item to disassemble. The losses would feel far less harsh though, and I think the overall effect would be more pleasant.
Thunderheart
Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:48 pm
#386
Jei_Lightfoot wrote:
You can get a critical success?
Yes - - with the same frequency.
And thanks to everyone in this discussion. This has been not only a great discussion thread but a lot of great info has come up and its been interesting 
There are a few different issues, but all of them are being considered for development improvement.
MasterGuiJan
Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:08 pm
#387
TH,
The Critical Success you are talking about are the Amazing Success results we get, correct?
I actually do get these in the same frequency, however I feel like when I am at the lower end of the skills I should be getting a ratio closer to 8% Crit Fail and 3% Crit Success, and when I'm at the upper end I should be getting a ratio closer to 3% Crit Fail and 8% Crit Success. Of course with that I would also expect the Critical Failures to not use up the components, only the Raw Resources used in the final assembly.
KDdidit
Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:16 pm
#388
And how does the tool and station functionality rating effect this (if is does)?
Cronus3
Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:26 pm
#389
Chrysalide...
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU
Iam a master Architect and I bless up every time I get a CF on a Ion Generator and it gives me the chance to reassembly it again. I use to turn off the game and go do something else for a while after losing so many resources.
In my opine, I think that Masters should get a 1 in 4 chance to try and reassemble something on a CF.
Good Night /AU accent off
RebelKnight
Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:10 pm
#390
Thunderheart wrote:
Jei_Lightfoot wrote:
You can get a critical success?
Yes - - with the same frequency.
And thanks to everyone in this discussion. This has been not only a great discussion thread but a lot of great info has come up and its been interesting
There are a few different issues, but all of them are being considered for development improvement.
That's the funniest thing I've ever heard. I NEVER get amazing success as often as I get failures. NEVER.