Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Schematics limited to 100
This would be an absurd change. I make schems for a buddy that runs a medical supply shop, and as it stands we already spend an absurd amount of time redoing schems, because of the 1k limit. At first blush it seems to sound ok, but when you consider how many subcomponents go into the higher end components, it just gets stupid. Do you really think we, as players REALLY want to sit around and redo schems for 3 sets of subcomps and 1 master schem every SINGLE time we create two crates of items? As it stands we can't keep up with the demand for things like Stim B's, simply because we don't have the time.
My suggestion is to try actually being a merchant in this game for a bit before you make a change like this. It's ludicrous.
Gherkin,
Master Doc
Sunrunner
Another architect's point of view:
I can't really say how this will affect the number of items in the database. It seems to me that the number of items will be gated by the burn rate of resources more than anything else.
Also, this change really penalizes the creation of items which require identical subcomponents. That's a distortion of the items distribution. Consider a guild hall which needs 15 walls and 8 identical storage modules. It looks like the walls are the limit on how many items you can get from 1 schematic, but it's not.
Make 10 crates of 100 bricks each. Take one brick from each stack and make a wall schematic. throw the whole mess in the factory and you got a crate of 99 walls. Repeat that process 14 times and you have 15 crates of 99 walls each. Use 1 wall from each stack for you guildhall schematic and you got walls for 98 guildhalls. But you cant get around the 8 IDENTICAL storage modules. You're maxed at ((100-8)/8 rounded down =) 11 guildhalls from the schematic.
The need to mass produce guildhalls is kinda rare, but the same logic applies to stimpaks, which need 3 bioeffect controllers. It says you can make schematics for up to 100 uses, but really you can only get 32 uses out of it because the subcomponents are gated and multiplied too. If you are going to limit the schematic to 100 uses, consider dropping the IDENTICAL requirement from subcomponents.
I think that 100 for sub-components is very harsh.
As a BE I can go through close to 100 of each subcomponent for my stims a day. I am not a doctor and I do find and interact with doctors to get very nice subcomponent schematics.
Since I'll collect the resource over a 5-7 day period, they make me one schematic with what I've hand sampled and I don't need to bother them until next shift. Now I have to either bother them daily - or get them to make 6-7 schematics of 100 - which takes a lot more of thier time. I rarely use the full 1000 - since I often don't get resources in that bulk.
The combination of having to track down my doctor neighbors daily instead of every shift, or make thier getting schematics for me tedious - remember I have 3 seperate subcomponents and oftne ask for 2 chem ones - since I use whatever herbivore I can find. So I'd be asking them to make say 7 each of 4 chematics. I think that making 28 schematics for someone is a royal pain compared to making 4 - no matter how wellI tip or how kind they are.
And the having ot log on and off constantly during the day to make sure you have enough sub-components ready for the daily restocking will make this game seem less casual and more like .. err .. EQ. Check that spawn .. err factory ..!
I'm actually OK with final assembly schematics being limited to 100. If the sub-components aren't, you can still get 2 to 4 full crates there. And a MWS on my server did explain that you can flood the market if you do have the cash and network for the resourcesto pump out multiple 1000 lots of final product in multiple factories.
GherkinHG wrote:This would be an absurd change. I make schems for a buddy that runs a medical supply shop, and as it stands we already spend an absurd amount of time redoing schems, because of the 1k limit. At first blush it seems to sound ok, but when you consider how many subcomponents go into the higher end components, it just gets stupid. Do you really think we, as players REALLY want to sit around and redo schems for 3 sets of subcomps and 1 master schem every SINGLE time we create two crates of items? As it stands we can't keep up with the demand for things like Stim B's, simply because we don't have the time.
My suggestion is to try actually being a merchant in this game for a bit before you make a change like this. It's ludicrous.
Gherkin,
Master Doc
Sunrunner
Amen, Brother!
Doc/Combat Medic merchant on Ahazi
Sephlar's Stimpacks and Medical Supply
Currently when I do a run of the sub components, I do as many as 800 subs at a time. This allows me to let the factos chug away for a day or two and afterwards I am able to use them as needed to make large runs of stims for the vendor.
I already have to babysit my factos when making the final run due to being unable to set facto crate size limit... not everyone wants to buy a crate of 50 Stim-Bs when a crate of 20 will do fine.
To do something as absurd [well, it's absurd to me] as limiting a schematic to 100 is going to require yet more babysitting and take away that much more fun from the game, that much more time I could have spent working on my second profession.
Well, I guess it would actually allow for more time to work on my second profession because I would stop producing stims. I'm sure I won't be the only one either.
Please PLEASE do not limit schematics to 100. This is going to hurt more than it helps the game.
I think this would be a good change to make things more expensive for players and slow the ecomony down alot. You have posted this as a bug a month ago. It would lead to more variation in items offered as masters make a great schematic run 997 and own the market, and can run every item in the market of a week!
I remember when factories stopping at 100 was a total disaster. It fractured production so much I just gave up on it. Now its being reintroduced, in an even worse format. Really bad idea. Either get a better DB, or rewrite the entire crafting system while you're busy completely rewriting the entire combat system. Get rid of all these multiple, identical,must-be-factory-made components.
As a weaponsmith I use alot of components, most especially power handlers. With the 1000 schematic bug I can put one of these in a factory and let it work straight fora few days so I have the components to make my weapons. If it was limited to 100 again, I'd have to be logging on and making new schematics every 6 hours.
It also let's me make more of the advanced weapons with a single schematic since everything above the expert box pretty much requires multiple power handlers.
Please leave me with 1000 schematics at least on the component parts. Don't make it anymore tedious than it already is. It's hard enough with factories taking 10 times longer than what a crafting tool would take to make something.
I am a weaponsmith, and I think that this change would be exceptionally bad. It would cause me to cancel my two accounts, and quit a game I had anticipated for years. 1000 is just about right, though I say, you should let US decide how many to produce, and quit trying to limit us, the crafters, the ones who supposedly drive your economy. We're basically working for you, so you need to find something else to nerf, if you just *have* to nerf something, find the exploited stat guns on those servers that had them, and "nerf" them. That should reduce the load on your database.
You could always take all the newbie melons away from the starting players, that should free up some slots, or how about this idea? Instead of HURTING and PUNISHING your PAYING customers for YOUR database issues, why don't you FIX THE DATABASE already?
I begin to lose hope. Can you not see this course of action? You mentioned the TRUE reason you want to change this, and instead of fixing the CORE problem, the database, you attempt to "duct tape" the problem for just a little while longer, by angering more players to quit. Since I know you ARE intelligent, I will have to assume that this is your hidden intent all along. You see in your reports that there are too many people playing the game, and you are trying to get a number of them to quit to get the numbers down to a more reasonable level.
WHY, HOLO, DO YOU NOT FIX THE DATABASE? WHY?
/quit
SIMPLE SOLUTION!
Ok the schematic limit to 100 would be fine if you remove multiple identical subcomponent requirements from ALL schematics. Is it really necessary foranything to require multiplecomponents?Multiples do notstack to benefit the object that is being crafted.
I am a master weaponsmith and make runs of Blaster Power Handlers by the 1,000. I can go through that many Handlers in a couple days. I currently make a run of 1k for pistols, 1k for carbines, 1k for rifles, and 1k for heavy weapons. I know that seems like a lot of DB space, but like I said I go through them quickly so they don't stick around long taking up DB space.
The reason I go through so many Handlers is that most of the ranged weapons require anywhere from 2 to 10 of this component. I may only make a crate of 25 of any given weapon at a time, but I want to keep the schematic for a while and make another run of 25 of that weapon at a later date using the same components.
I see the concern for database storage, but ifI can only make 100 IdenticalBlaster Power Handlers, that would actually force me to make a run of 100 for every weapon instead of grouped like stated above. So that means I will have a lot of extra components sitting around waiting to be used.
I would like to see multiple identical component requirements removed from schematics. It would really help with database problems and allow for 100 limit schematics.
Thanks
Add my vote to leaving it at 1000. The following issues influence my opinion in order of importance:
1) Final product schematics that require Serial Numbered sub-components.
2) "Baby sitting" a factory. Having to return to it every 2-3 hours (or less).
3) Creating "odd" sized crates do to less than adequate experimentaion.
Hakkan
Make no mistake here, if this goes in I will be unlearning master doctor. I will be unlearning weaponsmith and I will unlearn Archetect, DE and Merchant (Another character).
I'm not one to make "Threats" or anything, I'm just saying this so you can understand how enormous of an impact this and how tedious this will make things. It will do NOTHING to save space from your precious database, it'll just make me click on START more often and make me get mad looking at a Stim run that doesn't even fill ONE crate.
(Now that I think about it, if you put this in it WOULD save ALOT of database space, because I wouldn't be a crafter / merchantanymore!!)
Very seriously Holo, look at your stats and see how many people have UNLEARNED Master Crafter professions. I would bet you three million credits that it's the MOST unlearned type of profession. I bet if you look at it a week or two after this change, you'll see that number go up anymore. There is enough going on for a crafter, especially a master crafter, to make them not enjoy doing it. I doubt you want to pile something like this on top of it.