Development Cycle Archive
Thread: I'm out of my cave!
MACTEP
Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:32 pm
#27
I have a big questiong thet i think every one whant to know ansver for:
What happend to Publish 10 thet supposed to go Test Server at 27 July and then at 17 august go life now its 2nd august andstill no test server and 0 infoabaut the delay or delay to when CSR ansver only thet they know nothink abaut it.
tnks for ansver its realy important think to know .
<info abaut the dates was taken form devs topic>
Janson
Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:32 pm
#28
Sewoo wrote:
Thanks for the response.
Here is the meat of the nut for many, many people:
It doesnt seem as though you have enough programers writing code. The discontent is that we are not waiting for enhancements to the game - we are waiting for working systems.
There are many things that are flat out broken and need attention. Asking customers to continue to pay for a game, where many aspects don't work as intended/don't work at all is really, really frustrating.
I don't mean to sound cruel, but I don't care what the problems are. I am paying for a service that I have certain expectations for. Fix the game - now. If that means you have to hire 35 more programers, then do so.
The problem is that hiring more programmers straight up does not help the problem at all :/ This is a sad thing cuz if it would help, it could easily fix things. The problem is that SWG has a special engine and codebase that takes time to learn. There also needs to be a purposeful plan set up for the programmers and a lead programmer or senior programmer managing the implementation and tasks done by the specific programers, while making sure the code will fit together in the whole grand scheme of the game design and implementation. It is more complicated then just throwing more programmers at the problem.
Faithdies
Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:35 pm
#29
I have 50000 bloodfin credits saying he won't respond to this thread again, and if he does, he won't answer ANY of these questions.
IndySWG
Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:35 pm
#30
Shug -
After the annoncement, and >100 pages of complaints, and the interviews, and the complaints being burried... after all that I was in game and someone said to me:
"Sweet! GCW and smugglers get revamped in pub 11!"
I had to explain that the in-concept page was no longer correct and that everything has changed. I have also had at least 3 debates since that time where I had to point people to the forums to get the news.
I would offer a few facts obvious from this:
* Those happy silent players... may be happy and silient...because you havent told them what you're doing... counting their silience as approval is a mistake
* We WERE very directly lead to believe there would be a smuggler revamp... VERY DIRECTLY...it was on in in-concept page.
See: This thread
Tyrst
Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:36 pm
#31
Why don't you guys put up a poll and find out what the majority of the community really wants?
Let me use the automobile industry as an analogy for how alot of us feel right now.
You go out and lease the brand new car SWG that is the hot car on the street right now. While driving your newly leased car you start to find things wrong with it. The tires on the car are all different sizes, your seats don't adjust the way you were told they would, it doesn't seem to accelerate as fast as you would like, etc. You decide to take it into the shop and have a mechanic look it over. While you are waiting they mechanic comes in and tells you you have a 4 cylinder car when you are supposed to have a 6 cylinder car, among other things. So off you go back to the dealership where you leased it and tell you that they will look into it. They tell you they have some performance upgrades they will install free of charge as soon as they have time. Well after following up for months they tell you that they could install the performance upgrades but because the rest of the car wasn't made to handle it right now they are going to have to install a whole new engine along with all the needed subcomponents to make sure it will operate properly so it will be a few more months. 6 months after you this started this fiasco with the dealership you get a letter in the mail. You open the letter and to your dismay they are telling you that they are delaying thedelivery scheduleon the engine and subcomponents because they havea new car coming out that they want you to buy and you get to keep your current lease. They go into great detail about how industry polls state how popular this car will be and they are excited to bring you this new car. Even better once they deliver this new car to you they will be able to actually fix the one you already have.
Now tell me if the above scenario were true would you really buy the new car? How would you honestly feel after spending all that money on the lease only to be told that they want to to buy an additional car? Common sense says that if your current product is broke so will your future one.
When do you guys want to get the next expansion out because I am sure it will push back revamps in at least 1 game if not both. You need to have a working product before you decide to try and sell another one. I can tell you that the friends I have that have asked me about SWG I have told them to NOT buy it right now because it is broken and we don't know when it will be fixed. I have told them that it has great potential and when SOE gets around to fixing it it will be the best game on the market. I have also told them that you would rather us buy an add on game before you fix the current one. In case you guys don't know every unhappy customer will tell 9 people on average about your service. That is 9 potential customers possibly being turned away because you have not fixed your current customers issues.
Nononsense
Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:40 pm
#32
But, Haden, what about the les we've been told about the CB schedule? If you need to see it, please look here:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=GCW&message.id=222831&view=by_date_ascending&page=1
As a short summary, TH has been telling us to expect the CB "soon" since DECEMBER. Now I know most people here are all bubbly and happy that you posted, and I too am grateful for your communication. But you also need to tell us why we should believe anything the devs say at this point.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=GCW&message.id=222831&view=by_date_ascending&page=1
As a short summary, TH has been telling us to expect the CB "soon" since DECEMBER. Now I know most people here are all bubbly and happy that you posted, and I too am grateful for your communication. But you also need to tell us why we should believe anything the devs say at this point.
aachil
Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:41 pm
#33
Heh, I thought it was a bit of a PR blunder and I can see how it happend. Nice that you didn't try any flim flam about it though. I'd have tried to spin the news to appear positive "we've decided to bring more elements of the combat balance forwards. Once we are sure JTL is stable we'll put the testing team onto community responces for the changes to game mechanics." Then go on to say how in the past we said 'wait for the combat balance' but now we don't want to delay blah, blah.
I'd have told a pack of lies basicaly, pretended that the 'combat balance' was just about a few proffesion tweaks which is what most people were expecting from it. The die hards would question when the big game mechanic changes were coming but most people were just looking for a CM nerf and a BH boost so you'd have looked like a saint to bring that stuff ahead of publish 10.
Then again it could be that the reaction to the announcement convinced you to push the CM nerf ahead when actualy you planed it for much later. I'm one of the mongrels who is happy with the way your doing stuff (if a little bemused about the way you announce stuff).
What a dreadfull job where you have to go to Comicon and work, I read or talk about comics to avoid work, I'd probably explode if reading comics and talking about comics became work.
I'd have told a pack of lies basicaly, pretended that the 'combat balance' was just about a few proffesion tweaks which is what most people were expecting from it. The die hards would question when the big game mechanic changes were coming but most people were just looking for a CM nerf and a BH boost so you'd have looked like a saint to bring that stuff ahead of publish 10.
Then again it could be that the reaction to the announcement convinced you to push the CM nerf ahead when actualy you planed it for much later. I'm one of the mongrels who is happy with the way your doing stuff (if a little bemused about the way you announce stuff).
What a dreadfull job where you have to go to Comicon and work, I read or talk about comics to avoid work, I'd probably explode if reading comics and talking about comics became work.
bmeenan
Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:42 pm
#34
Good post, Haden. It's really appreciated.
I understandthat there are personnel changes with regards to community relations going on right now. My concern is that this interim period has brought about a lack of communication. You(and the rest of SOE SWG)started with the intent of raising the bar andcarving new territory when it comes to MMORPG community relations. I really hope you can make efforts to breathe that "relationship" vision back in to the game because itwas something that made this game stand out.
There are many burning questions right now that we're all eagerly awaiting answers on (things like ... dates on acceptance letters for JTL Beta, how non-Jedi will be compensated with Publish 10, date on publish 10, etc).
And for what it's worth ... I know everyone is working hard on your side and it is appreciated.
Best!
BPM
Message Edited by bmeenan on 08-02-2004 05:43 PM
Jwmc4
Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:43 pm
#35
can you say if you guys are going to fix the current car wreck that is the force ranking system??
Geral_Corasjo
Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:43 pm
#36
hey nice scenario........Mr hayden, I'd like your response to that, acknoledge it atleast (man, can't figure out how to spell acknoledgalka today
Tyrst wrote:
Why don't you guys put up a poll and find out what the majority of the community really wants?
Let me use the automobile industry as an analogy for how alot of us feel right now.
You go out and lease the brand new car SWG that is the hot car on the street right now. While driving your newly leased car you start to find things wrong with it. The tires on the car are all different sizes, your seats don't adjust the way you were told they would, it doesn't seem to accelerate as fast as you would like, etc. You decide to take it into the shop and have a mechanic look it over. While you are waiting they mechanic comes in and tells you you have a 4 cylinder car when you are supposed to have a 6 cylinder car, among other things. So off you go back to the dealership where you leased it and tell you that they will look into it. They tell you they have some performance upgrades they will install free of charge as soon as they have time. Well after following up for months they tell you that they could install the performance upgrades but because the rest of the car wasn't made to handle it right now they are going to have to install a whole new engine along with all the needed subcomponents to make sure it will operate properly so it will be a few more months. 6 months after you this started this fiasco with the dealership you get a letter in the mail. You open the letter and to your dismay they are telling you that they are delaying thedelivery scheduleon the engine and subcomponents because they havea new car coming out that they want you to buy and you get to keep your current lease. They go into great detail about how industry polls state how popular this car will be and they are excited to bring you this new car. Even better once they deliver this new car to you they will be able to actually fix the one you already have.
Now tell me if the above scenario were true would you really buy the new car? How would you honestly feel after spending all that money on the lease only to be told that they want to to buy an additional car? Common sense says that if your current product is broke so will your future one.
When do you guys want to get the next expansion out because I am sure it will push back revamps in at least 1 game if not both. You need to have a working product before you decide to try and sell another one. I can tell you that the friends I have that have asked me about SWG I have told them to NOT buy it right now because it is broken and we don't know when it will be fixed. I have told them that it has great potential and when SOE gets around to fixing it it will be the best game on the market. I have also told them that you would rather us buy an add on game before you fix the current one. In case you guys don't know every unhappy customer will tell 9 people on average about your service. That is 9 potential customers possibly being turned away because you have not fixed your current customers issues.
)
Janson
Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:43 pm
#37
Tyrst wrote:
Why don't you guys put up a poll and find out what the majority of the community really wants?
Let me use the automobile industry as an analogy for how alot of us feel right now.
You go out and lease the brand new car SWG that is the hot car on the street right now. While driving your newly leased car you start to find things wrong with it. The tires on the car are all different sizes, your seats don't adjust the way you were told they would, it doesn't seem to accelerate as fast as you would like, etc. You decide to take it into the shop and have a mechanic look it over. While you are waiting they mechanic comes in and tells you you have a 4 cylinder car when you are supposed to have a 6 cylinder car, among other things. So off you go back to the dealership where you leased it and tell you that they will look into it. They tell you they have some performance upgrades they will install free of charge as soon as they have time. Well after following up for months they tell you that they could install the performance upgrades but because the rest of the car wasn't made to handle it right now they are going to have to install a whole new engine along with all the needed subcomponents to make sure it will operate properly so it will be a few more months. 6 months after you this started this fiasco with the dealership you get a letter in the mail. You open the letter and to your dismay they are telling you that they are delaying thedelivery scheduleon the engine and subcomponents because they havea new car coming out that they want you to buy and you get to keep your current lease. They go into great detail about how industry polls state how popular this car will be and they are excited to bring you this new car. Even better once they deliver this new car to you they will be able to actually fix the one you already have.
Now tell me if the above scenario were true would you really buy the new car? How would you honestly feel after spending all that money on the lease only to be told that they want to to buy an additional car? Common sense says that if your current product is broke so will your future one.
When do you guys want to get the next expansion out because I am sure it will push back revamps in at least 1 game if not both. You need to have a working product before you decide to try and sell another one. I can tell you that the friends I have that have asked me about SWG I have told them to NOT buy it right now because it is broken and we don't know when it will be fixed. I have told them that it has great potential and when SOE gets around to fixing it it will be the best game on the market. I have also told them that you would rather us buy an add on game before you fix the current one. In case you guys don't know every unhappy customer will tell 9 people on average about your service. That is 9 potential customers possibly being turned away because you have not fixed your current customers issues.
despite this being a good point in any other product, on the whole you cannot apply machined products or manufactured products to software of any kind: Windows, SWG,Microsoft Paint. Did you know that on average a game developer works on a game 100 timesas long asthe game will entertain one of its customers? You cannot expect the changes to be exactly on time or quick.
However, they did miss the deadline by a lot...I think better communication along the way to this point would have avoided the intense outrage that was seen after this delay. Communication is the key to everything.
Tavian_McMaster
Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:47 pm
#38
Shug_Ninx wrote:
I will cover the one answer I wish I could clarify, take back, or nuke:
IGNPC: We often hear the loudest cries from a relative minority. Still, it seems odd that all the comments sent our way have been negative.
This was in no way intended as a slight against the community, or even those community members who posted "negative" comments or sent IGNPC negative letters about the combat revamp timing. I was (poorly) trying to articulate a common phenomenon that basically boils down to "happy community members are generally quiet community members." This has been true for us since launch.
Not to worry Haden. Of all the devs you probably spend the least time on the boards, so your opinion of the board community is probably the least informed, therefor the least of concern. The devs whose job it is to hang around the boards and filter our information (i.e. rants, rants, and shrieking rants) are here alot and they probably have a better view of things. This is not a slight to you at all though, I mean, your job is oversight, not plunging in here with the dregs of the community.
If TH or JustG said something like this, I'd be a little miffed. Someone who only has 29 posts though, that's hardly worth paying attention to. 
You cannot even get the lightsaber icon!
You cannot even get the lightsaber icon!
Heorot
Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:47 pm
#39
Quoted for Emphasis.
KaptainKrude wrote:
For the sake of my sanity I'll be sticking to a "believe it when you see it" attitude and refraining from bothering to participate in any "In Concept" threads, etc from now on. You guys just make it too hard to participate on many, many important subjects.