Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IT 6-2: Chef Revamp
Yay to milking I can't wait until I get on test center to try it out.
- The milk issue - I think that perhaps the quantity of sale chefs do is not taken into consideration here. There is no other profession I know where all of your products are sold by the crate. What would normally be 1,000 or maybe 500 sales to most professions is 20-40 sales to chefs. Lesser plains bols seem to be the on non-oddball source of domesticated milk. They produce 10 milk per animal. 1 Bantha butter requires 20 milk. Im going to guess there are 5 bols to the lair on 3 waves of spawns. So for every lair we can get 150 milk. This is 7 butters. Ok now consider this. Smugglers Delight, requires 2 identical bantha butters. Our customers dont want to buy in single stacks they want CRATES. So for one crate of smugglers delight we need 1000 butters. This 7 lairs (a cple extra to make schem and in case of bad combine, its like 6.67) of a single existing animal. For ONE sale. Now, many of my customers by in bulk. They want 5-10 crates. So potentionally for my one customer I will have milk and kill (to get to the next wave) 700 lairs of one type of animal. For me to make 1 full run of smugglers delight (20 crates) is going to take me 1,400 lairs. Errm 1,400 lairs for 2-3 customers? Are you serious? Lets say it takes me 20 minutes to milk and clear one lair. This means for 2-3 customers I will have spent 28,000 minutes getting milk thats umm 467 hours. We are not weaponsmiths or armorsmiths. Our customers dont want to buy 1-2. Our customers want to buy 50-100 or more.
- Experimentation - The ability to experiment on filling is a nice bonus. (see stomach topic regarding filling) However Ive seen reports of foods that no matter the experimentation, the bonus doesnt raise, the usage doesnt raise, the filling didnt lower, the only thing that raised was the food lasted 1 more round.What this means is yes we get a 4th bar to put our points on. Unfortunately putting our points somewhere makes a much smaller difference than it currently does on live. In addition to the experimenting results being so small (largely because the food is so small) The removal of experimentation on components is a very bad thing IMO. Currently I determine how I want my food to turn out and I experiment the component in the direction I want the final product to be. Then I get to reinforce this experimentation again on the final product. This allows me to greatly customize the food and really allows a chef to shine by make excellent products. I feel that the removal of component experimentation (as well as our alcohol choices) really will close the gap between a good chef and a mediocre chef. The two products will be much closer to the same because of the loss of the ability to experiment the component to do what you want it to as well. So yes, we gained a bar to play with. But at the same time, we lost the thing (the other one is resources) that sets apart the bad, mediocre, good and excellent chefs. We also lost the ability to make cheaper drinks for roleplaying. In the past our best drinks were made with aludium, when we needed to make them for weddings partys etc we could just stick plain alcohol in and voila same drinks but lesser stats and less resources which meant less cost to which our RP customers were very thankful. Now its gonna be same cost for everyone. RP customers will have to pay same as normal buffs unless the chef decides to eat the difference.
- Buff Effects/Stomach - There are a few nice effects. In general the effects are underpowered compared to what we have now. Ive gone from buffing 1600 health to buffing 125 health. There are a few good substat buffs but unfortunately they last for 3 mins and are 80 filling so you can buff yourself for 500 to 2 stats but then not again for about 45 minutes. Pikatta pie does the same thing the master food fizz pudding does...only much better. Shouldnt master food be better? Why is it that of the 5 master foods, one is a severly nerfed version of what we have now,the secondisa simple defense mod just like lower down the tree only a different thing defended against,the thirdis pet food,the fourthhas a better versionlower down the tree, the fifth one only works for 4 rounds of combat and has a 90+ filling rate on it. In addition we get barrels which are basically useless (see breakdown below) What exactly is the point of being a master chef? To sell dog food that only non-ch and novice chs want because it buffs HAM not secondaries and is too small a buff for big pets to matter. Frankly I see 5-6 foods that I like and the rest I think have severe issues. Right now, a chef can fully buff you with much better buffs and as soon as those buffs wear off you can reapply. Most of the buffs in the publish will require down time due to how filling they are. The reason people like food is there is no downtime. This patch is introducing huge amounts of downtime to the chef profession because of the stomach fill rate. I had a hard time at first thinking of filling and stomach rate as two separate things. But in fact they are. The stomach digestion rate needs to be more inline to allow buffs to be replaced as they where off (like it is now) otherwise this is a severe nerf to the chef profession.
- Hats and Aprons - Very cool except that after patch there will be thousands of people wearing them. Im probably not going to wear mine for the simply fact that 98% of the people in the wont be the chefs but the people that go "oh look new clothes!" I like them now. Id like them more if they were chef or maybe chef and homemaker only.
- Food effects/experimentation - Covered above
- Bio-Engineer additives - I havent had hands on yet with this but they sound good from reports. In fact they sound better than our food
The food that has been made on tests shows such bad combinations of buff/filling etc that it appears that additives are not going to be optional but are going to be demanded. Frankly I cant find a person that can keep up the pace with me as to how much my shop sells stuff. My amount of business is going to be directly limited by how much work I can get a BE to do. Without the BE stuff food doesnt have much usefullness. The flavor BE components look so -so...bringing up a 12 min buff by 1 min is not that spectacular. However it looked nice in the nutritition and quantity dept as someone posted here: http://www.catcreations.com/ayaonane/novicechef.htm Unfortunately these are going to require masses of meat which is going to slow the BE down in production. Especially domestic meat which basically only comes from 2 animals in the gameother than a like an occasional pet at a human spawn lair. And as if that wasnt enough, the main source of domestic meat (used for pate now) has already been nerfed TWICE as to how much meat you get from the harvest. So we have severely increased need of this meat for our BEs but yet nerfed dropped rate. Once again I have to reiterate, our customers do not want 1-2 foods they want CRATES of food. Bits and pieces here and there will not run a chef a business. - Milking - See above
- Drink containers - umm lets see. Reported was:
Container Comparison:
Starshine Suprise
Exp: 22/47/25
Small Glass: Quant 2 - Resources 10 gemstone
Large Glass: Quant 3 - Resources 100 gemstone. 10 times the resources for 1 extra drink.
Barrel: Quant 6 - 300 nonferrous metal + power conditioner (32 resources)+ Control unit (31 resources) for a total of 363 resources (and 2 extra factory runs which require power/maint or us purchasing them if we arent master artisan). So for 30.6 times the resources we get 3 xthe drinks. Or we couldve just made 3 small glasses and spent 30 total gemstone and have the same amount. To me it seems that as a chef gains more experience in his field, he should become more efficient not less efficient. Frankly barrels are a waste. Ive heard a few say they would use it for rare stuff. Well guess what guys...domestic meat isnt on our menu anymore. The only "rare" stuff is gonna be the BE components. Does this mean we now have to spend many more resources to become very much more inefficient so that we can hope to get as much use out of BE products as we can? We are not only going to have to rely on BE products, but we are going to have to waste resources and time mainly to support the "stretching out" of the BE products we have to buy. Once again Im going to point out that our customers do not want singles, they want crates. Resource prices have risen not fallen. Adding a barrel to a drink is going to cost roughly 60,000 credits PER CASE if you do your own artisan runs. Not too mention I sell over 1,000 drinks a day frequently. 1,000 drinks is one factory run. 1 factory run with barrels is 363,000 resources just on cups. Now, I know the arguement. Well just dont use them. Great. Thats certainly the proper response for something sitting in the master chef box.
Bug - Existing crates are popping out 1 use stacks on test after the patch. Currently many chefs on live have stopped their businesses because we dont know if this is going to happen or be fixed. And worse for all we know, we are going to wake up in the morning to the publish. We have no word on a fix (in fact from what TH posted on the chef forum /faint) it appears soe doesnt even know about this nevermind its been posted for 4 days now and many chefs have been out of business that long nor do we have word on if this publish is going to be tomorrow, this month, next month, next year. Once again its necessary for chefs to post warnings everywhere about food and determine if they want to risk selling food and potentially having to refund millions of credits to customers. Im extremely unsastisfied with this. And frankly the whole publish feels rather like a slap on the face but acknowledgement that you didnt even know chefs had been not working for the last 4 days is well...it doesnt give one faith in SOE. If everyone that used ranged weapons had to stop fighting for 4 days I guarantee you guys wouldve known about and probably already fixed it. Why are chefs perpetually the red-headed stepchild?
Ok that was huge, Im doubting anyone read it all the way through. Im not sure why all the chefs have to come repost everything here when its all already on the chef board *scratches head* Anyway there it is in all its glorious ugh.
Let me make this more clear about milk.
Chefs are a high volume business. If I make a factory run of 20 crates of something, it often sells out in 1 day.
If the schematic calls for 10 milk, that would require 10 x 25 x 20 = 5000 units of milk for the 20 crate run.
At the rate of collection people are reporting, 200 units of milk per hour, that would require 25 hours to collect enough milk for one factory run.
25 hours. Is it just me? or is that nuts? Basically, any recepie that requires milk is still useless to us.
PadreBook wrote:
Ok, now to more serious concerns, one of the first ones that is a serious concern in the immediate future is the bug that crated food made before the patch only comes out with one charge and has no stats (i.e. is useless). Is this a nerf of old food or not?
WHAT???? Are you telling me that my inventory of crates and crates of Hi yield pet food is due to become worthless????????????? SOE and Dev's Don't even go there. *KILL* that bug in test. I am likely not the only merchant that feels this way.
-Indene-
P.S. Or give us viable loss insurance on our businesses if you really want realism.
(Gee during the heavy rains the water got into the vendor and ruined the food.
In a word, moo.
Wow, this sounds great. I hope it actually all works out. I may actually go back to my original dream of being a chef. Well, ok, my first dream way back in beta was to be a tailor and have a tailoring shop. But clothing wasn't terribly useful, so I dropped that for chef. But by the time release hit, it sucked to, so...
Come on chefs, tell me if it's gonna be worth it
Philomorph wrote:
Come on chefs, tell me if it's gonna be worth it
With the new “chef revamp, there are many items we would like to hear from you on. For the Chefs out there who are on, or visit the Test Center, please post your opinions and comments.ffice
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Chef Profession Revamp: The Chef profession has been completely revised in this patch. Chef food items now have a more interesting and powerful set of effects and buffs and more flexibility in experimentation.
- How is the experimentation?
- What do you think of the new food items?
- What are your feelings on the buff effects?
New Chef Assets: Several food items now have custom art. There are also two new Chef hats and one new Chef apron creatable by Tailors.
- What do you think of the new Chef hats and aprons?
Player Stomach: The stomach meters for food and drink now decay over a period of one hour. Each food item takes up a % of stomach space that may be determined by examining the item.
- What are your experiences with the new player stomachs?
- Did you notice the changes?
Food Effects: Food effects are no longer limited to stat modifiers. Food created by Chefs can now enhance skills, give new protections and enhance combat abilities. There are even foods for medics, entertainers, and crafters. Examining a food item will display what it does. Food created before the patch will be unchanged. We encourage all players to seek out and try the new foods!
- What new food effects were you able to create?
- What are your feelings about the changes?
Food Experimentation: Chef experimentation on food has been reworked. Chefs now experiment on four unique attributes: filling, flavor, nutrition, and quantity. Filling affects the stomach usage of the food, flavor affects the duration of the food’s effect, nutrition affects the effectiveness of the food, and quantity affects how many of the food the crafting attempt will yield.
- Did you experiment with the foods?
- What experiments did you do? What was the outcome?
- What were your food crafting experiences?
Bio-Engineered Food Additives: The set of Bio-Engineered food components have been revised. Bio-Engineers can now create 3 intensities of component for each of the 4 experimental attributes (12 total). A Chef can then use these components in his recipes through the additive slot. For example: a Bio-Engineer could make a “light nutrition component” and sell it to a Chef who uses it to enhance the effectiveness of one of their recipes. The impact of Bio-Engineered food components has been greatly increased.
- Bio Engineers: Have you experimented with the food additives?
- What did your experiments yield?
Milking: Players can now milk certain herbivores. A “milk” option will show up on their radial menu. You must be scent masked or concealed to milk. You’ll have to figure out on your own what can be milked.
- Have you milked anything yet?
- How much Domestic Milk have you found?
- How much Wild Milk have you found?
Drink Containers: Drink recipes now require a separately crafted container. As a Chef increases in skill, they will earn the ability to create new types of containers. The larger the container, the greater the yield of drink created in a single crafting attempt.
- What containers were you able to make?
- What container sizes were you able to make?