Development Cycle Archive

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ByygPapa wrote:

If you can read through his 2 monster posts w/o getting eyestrain you will find numerous contradictions (secondaries mean NOTHING!!...no, wait, I mean secondaries are HUGE!!!) and flat out lies (hardly anybody wears over 50% resist composite because that would take buffs to wear and of course people RARELY go get buffs in this game <lmfao>

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Dude, please read...reading is good...

You guys are talking about wookies WITHOUT armor, I am talking about wookies WITH armor.

What I said was that:

(1) Secondaries are irrelevant when wearing armor, and any good player will migrate as many points into HAM as possible because it maximizes your damage taking potential, while having little effect on your regeneration/specials (because armor ruins that already); and that

(2) Without armor wookies get a huge HAM bonus from secondaries (much more than the 13% you guys are arguing) because armor isn't ruining your secondaries, and wookies get a sizable regeneration and specials bonus (without armor) that equates DIRECTLY into HAM conservation and additional HAM (again, more than 13%).

What I said is that devs need to account for that more than 13% bonus, because when wookies realize #1 (that armor ruins any points spent in secondary stats), they will migrate points directly into HAM (instead of this equal to all 9 stats gibberish you keep spouting), resulting in a direct 23% HAM bonus (rather than a 13% direct + a 10%-12% indirect HAM bonus from regen and specials that wookies get without armor).

Either way, wookies will be getting a 20%+ bonus any way you slice it.

These points aren't contradictory, and I'm sorry that they are too abstract for you to fathom.

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Daker-Naritus wrote:

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ByygPapa wrote:

If you can read through his 2 monster posts w/o getting eyestrain you will find numerous contradictions (secondaries mean NOTHING!!...no, wait, I mean secondaries are HUGE!!!) and flat out lies (hardly anybody wears over 50% resist composite because that would take buffs to wear and of course people RARELY go get buffs in this game )

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Dude, please read...reading is good...

You guys are talking about wookies WITHOUT armor, I am talking about wookies WITH armor.

What I said was that:

(1) Secondaries are irrelevant when wearing armor, and any good player will migrate as many points into HAM as possible because it maximizes your damage taking potential, while having little effect on your regeneration/specials (because armor ruins that already); and that

(2) Without armor wookies get a huge HAM bonus from secondaries (much more than the 13% you guys are arguing) because armor isn't ruining your secondaries, and wookies get a sizable regeneration and specials bonus (without armor) that equates DIRECTLY into HAM conservation and additional HAM (again, more than 13%).

What I said is that devs need to account for that more than 13% bonus, because when wookies realize #1 (that armor ruins any points spent in secondary stats), they will migrate points directly into HAM (instead of this equal to all 9 stats gibberish you keep spouting), resulting in a direct 23% HAM bonus (rather than a 13% direct + a 10%-12% indirect HAM bonus from regen and specials that wookies get without armor).

Either way, wookies will be getting a 20%+ bonus any way you slice it.

These points aren't contradictory, and I'm sorry that they are too abstract for you to fathom.

You are, however, right about one thing... The devs are going to balance wookie armor properly, because they are not stupid. They can do this math just as well as I, and I guarantee wookie armor will be MORE than 13% less effective.

The only reason I even posted here was toclarify that your 13% numbers were bunk. Having made that point several times, I won't read any of the rest of your gibberish, I already know what it will say ("13%, 13%, 13%, I refuse to see any logic, 13% although totally wrong is the only number that helps me so I refuse to even think coherently about anything else")

I take my leave...

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Daker,

Are u a complete idiot? Show us your calculations on how you figured the 23%. As stated in my post earlier wookies get less than a 13% HAM bonus. The fact that we are talking about wookiees without armor means absolutely nothing. We are talking about the bottom line comparison between the 2 stats.....wookiees vs humans.....both of them without armor. There is no need to even add armor into the equation, because evenly matched armor will cancel itself out anyways.....just leaving the basic question:

What is the REAL difference between a wookiee and a human regarding Stat bonuses??

Read it again:

So if this is the case, my wookiee's stats should look like this:

Health 1150
Strength 650
Constitution 450
Action 1100
Quickness 400
Stamina 400
Mind 1100
Focus 450
Willpower 400

As opposed to a Humans which would look like this:

Health 1000
Strength 400
Constitution 400
Action 1000
Quickness 400
Stamina 400
Mind 1000
Focus 400
Willpower 400

I just got through balancing out the stats on both a human and wookiee character so the above is accurate. I lowered all Secondaries and Maxxed out HAM as you suggested. Here is the bonus we get:

+150 to health...+250 strength... +100 action... +100 mind... +50 to focus = +350 to actual HAM bonuses and +300 to secondaries.

A wookiees total HAM(not including secondaries) would equal 3350 as opposed to a human's which is 3000...this is only an 11.6% advantage in Total HAM.

A wookiees total secondaries would equal 2650 a humans would equal 2400....this is a total increase of 10.4% above humans.

Regeneration Stats( Con, Stamina and willpower) wookiees get a +50 increase 1250 as opposed to 1200 for a human.....thats a 4% bonus to regeneration. I doubt this bonus factors in much during combat.....

Ham Cost Stats( Strength, Quickness and Focus) wookiees get a +300 bonus....1500 as opposed to 1200 for a human....thats a 25% advantage to the wookiee. So basically if a Weapon had a ham cost of 100/100/100 for a human....the HAM costs for a wookiee would be 75/75/75. Of course with a good buff to the secondaries...these HAM costs would be next to nothing for both a wookiee and a human. I know when I am buffed fully...including drinking brandy.......my HAM cost on my T21 are extremely minimal if not nothing. Also, HAM recovers much more quickly from using specials....than just an actual hit from an opponent.

So actually a "11.6% additional HAM + 4% better regeneration + 25% decreased HAM cost = Approximately an OVERALL bonus of around 13%

actually 13.05% if u want to be exact. I come to this calculation by Averaging the Regeneration bonus and the HAM cost bonus.......assuming both types of secondary stats provide a 50/50 role during combat......take the result and average it into the total HAM. In other words:

[11.6% + (4% + 25%)/2] / 2 approximates to 13%

Refute my ignorance....please beg of you to enlighten me.

Arasett

Refute my ignorance....please beg of you to enlighten me.

Arasett

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Please...no need to "refute my ignorance"....i did it myself =)



Arasett

http://swg.allakhazam.com/

Scroll down a little to see what the armor will look like in-game.

IMO, that looks way better than the concept art. It does look a little too Samurai-ish but doesn't look as bad as people thing it would based on the concept art. The Wookiee in the concept art was also too thin and lean. On a full size Wookiee with broad shoulders and such, this will look very good.

Looks like it's scheduled to go on Test Center next week.

Btw, this is just the first kind of Wookiee armor. They have already done the concept art for the next kind so the expect a very different look from this one.

i think it looks good

looks better than the concept painting...and remember more will come

Daker,

You are also confusing two different things. You are talking about the 700 point stat bonus. However some of those points are locked into secondary stats. You need to remember something, there is a difference between bonus stat points and free points.

What are free points? Free points are points above a stat minimum that is available to move around. How many free points does a race have? They all have 1000. It's the same for every race.

So lets look where those 700 points are. All comparisions are vs Human. Wookiee Health +250, Strength +250, Constitution +50. Action +100, Focus +50. You will notice that 50% of those stats bonuses are locked into secondaries. They are not even available to be used in your calculations for HAM (your useage) calculations.

These are half of the points you used in determining that Wookiees have 700 points to add to their primaries.

So lets look at the free points. Every race has 1000 points. A Human caps at 1100 per stat. But do they have enough points to reach that level?

Human mins in HAM (your useage) is 600/800/600. To reach the 1100/1100/1100 you would need 1300 free points. You're short by 300. So it maxs out at 1000/1000/1000. Of course we could do 1100/1100/800 or a number of other calculation, but I think even you would agree that 1000/1000/1000 looks neater and is also the basis for your calculations when you came up with 23% more HAM for Wookiees.

So how about the Wookiee? 850/900/600 minimums with caps at 1350/1200/1100. Again you would need 1300 to hit the maximums. So obtainable numbers would be 1250/1100/1000.

Remember how you came up with your 23% calculation? You took 700 divided it by 3 and added it to 1000. That gave you a value of 1233 per stat which is 23% more than the 1000 base and hence your 23% HAM bonus claim.

Do you now see the problem with that? For that conclusion to be accurate REQUIRES that the average value of the three primaries be 1233. If that number is not obtainable then your conclusion must be wrong.

So what is the average value? Well we've used all our free points ONLY in the primaries. We have values of 1250/1100/1000. That means 3350/3. I know your math is good. That comes out to 1117 average. In other words its 12%more HAM (your useage).

You see your math was absolutely correct. Your conclussion however was completely wrong. You mixed two different issues, stat bonus points and free points. Your conclusion REQUIRED values that CAN NOT BE OBTAINED. There just are not enough free points to reach those values.

Now the average bonus for the Wookiee is 12%. It can not be any higher because of themin/max and the number of available free points. Now can we expect you to admit you were in error, not in your math, but in your conclusion. The error was you did not take into account other factors that would effect your conclusion. By which I mean the number of free points and the min/maxs for stats.

Now if you can show where anything I've said is wrong about this post please let me know and I'll re-evaluate. Now it appears that our Wookiee claim that we only have 13% more HAM is correct even using your own formula and definition of HAM. Well it appears to be 12% but our 13% claim was much closer than your 23% claim. By adding in the limitation factors set in the game that you appear to have not remembered.

So can we expect an apology or at least an admitance of error?

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cshauny wrote:
http://swg.allakhazam.com/

Scroll down a little to see what the armor will look like in-game.

IMO, that looks way better than the concept art. It does look a little too Samurai-ish but doesn't look as bad as people thing it would based on the concept art. The Wookiee in the concept art was also too thin and lean. On a full size Wookiee with broad shoulders and such, this will look very good.

Looks like it's scheduled to go on Test Center next week.

Btw, this is just the first kind of Wookiee armor. They have already done the concept art for the next kind so the expect a very different look from this one.

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Arasett wrote:

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cshauny wrote:
http://swg.allakhazam.com/

Scroll down a little to see what the armor will look like in-game.

IMO, that looks way better than the concept art. It does look a little too Samurai-ish but doesn't look as bad as people thing it would based on the concept art. The Wookiee in the concept art was also too thin and lean. On a full size Wookiee with broad shoulders and such, this will look very good.

Looks like it's scheduled to go on Test Center next week.

Btw, this is just the first kind of Wookiee armor. They have already done the concept art for the next kind so the expect a very different look from this one.

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Ha! What do all of you "wizard of oz" and "wicker basket" posters have to say know? I knew this armor would look alot better in-game. Thanks Devs!! Keep up the good work.

Arasett

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It still looks pretty goofy, but considering it's our equivalent to bone armor, that's not very upsetting. Most of the armor types look terrible, with the exception of Padded (minus the helmet), Ubese and Composite.

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Arasett wrote:

Well looking at the concept art, it is extremely goofy. I got some good chuckles out of it my self. However, I think then in-game version looks 10x better than the concept art. With a little coloration, it could look very cool.

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It looks the same to me, though the colors in the concept piece are WAY too warm for wookiees. I'm sure the palette will be as limiting as Bone Armor, or at least the leather palette that wooks are used to in our clothing.

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dhcpSilicon wrote:

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Arasett wrote:

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cshauny wrote:
http://swg.allakhazam.com/

Scroll down a little to see what the armor will look like in-game.

IMO, that looks way better than the concept art. It does look a little too Samurai-ish but doesn't look as bad as people thing it would based on the concept art. The Wookiee in the concept art was also too thin and lean. On a full size Wookiee with broad shoulders and such, this will look very good.

Looks like it's scheduled to go on Test Center next week.

Btw, this is just the first kind of Wookiee armor. They have already done the concept art for the next kind so the expect a very different look from this one.

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Ha! What do all of you "wizard of oz" and "wicker basket" posters have to say know? I knew this armor would look alot better in-game. Thanks Devs!! Keep up the good work.

Arasett

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It still looks pretty goofy, but considering it's our equivalent to bone armor, that's not very upsetting. Most of the armor types look terrible, with the exception of Padded (minus the helmet), Ubese and Composite.

I hope they post the next concept piece soon, and I hope it's designed to strike fear into our opponents instead of side-splitting laughter.

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