Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Great Expectations, Major Schedule Changes and making SWG the finest MMORPG ever
annelid0
Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:16 pm
#352
Thunderheart wrote:
Thorolfsk wrote:Thunderheart can you please respond to these questions:
- Can the development team please provide the community with a valid reason for pushing back the combat revamp?
The most important reasons are:
- I understand that there are many people against having Jedi in the game, but it is part of the game. En masse, the community was adamant that we change the holocron/professions system and that time is now. Given the effort that went in to publish 9, we needed to clear the schedule and make room for publish 10 to do a better job on it. The Jedi system needed to be changed because it was effecting everyone. That is why it had the shceudling priority that it has.
Was the community more adamant about the jedi revamp than it was about combat being fixed? Every thread I can remember about the jedi revamp had a majority of posts wanting the combat balance to come first. You've said time and time again that the combat balance will affect everyone. What's the real reason the jedi got priority?
Trying to please the achiever-type jedis will never work. They'll still get bored and leave, especially since they're a combat profession and the combat system remains broken.
Call me a skeptic, but I fail to see how you can fix anything in the time before the combat balance when the devs have steadfastly refused to do anything so far.
Valion310
Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:16 pm
#353
TH ... I gotta flame you on this one. 99% of the time, I am content with things and I stick up for the Devs. Here are the thoughts from a voice in the forest ... I hope it helps.
Give Jedi a rest .... do the Quest revamp after JTL or something and get the real body of this game fixed. Fix the professions that need it, the galaxies have too many Jedi as it is ... they (we as Jedi) are screwing up massive parts of the game and you guys are not evening seeing it. I said before Patch 9 that if my Jedi was some wierd scary combination of TKM with saber and force powers ... I would probably leave the game. Only reason I haven't yet is because I have to properly turn command of my guild over to someone else. SOE could care less if I leave ... but are ya'll even listening to your customers? I am not really ever a pesamest about the state of the game and I make do with what is here without complaining. But, this is one time where I'm going to flame you Thunderheart and the rest of the Dev team. You are sounding more like a "suit" and less like the kid who loved Star Wars in this most recent post. Some of that is nessecary logically as you are now farther up the food chain. But what are you guys attempting to accomplish with pushing Jedi and JTL? Gain more customers? Ya, you'll get them and they will stay for six months to a year before they really start catching on to the imbalances and your going to keep around the majority of your current customers because they dont really care enough and have the money to keep paying. But what about the story? Would George Lucas approve of this behind close doors? I don't kow if he would or not, but when you are making a game that is in the image of something that 90% of us grew up on and your screwing the story up this bad. Then I really wonder about things like that.
TH ... I hope in your new meetings your asking the hard questions. I hope your challenging the Dev's and not being affraid to throw in the random thought of someone on our side of the screen. Your marketing agents control the direction of the game based off what will sell as well as what your competition is doing. But no matter what they say, Star Wars is more of an attraction then some dungeons and dragons geek fest, or some overly obscene killing game. Its a legacy and a myth that our grand children will know about ... its the Micky Mouse mega-star of the Sci-Fi community. Don't kill it in this game cause you guys are going so far off into left field with Star Wars that you lose the story. Sorry for the flame TH ... but you diserve this rant from me. 90% of the time you do great ... but not this time.
I dont expect perfection ... and I can't imagine the headache you probably get from this place. But, respectfully those are my thoughts. I hope they help.
Give the Jedi a rest. Get this Combat and GCW Revamp done like you promised the communities. That is SWG ... NOT the Jedi. If these people want Jedi, they can go to another SOE game that has Jedi in it. Or else make the game restart at EP1 ... not EPIV
WookieIsshe
Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:16 pm
#354
Wyyne wrote:
Just to add my voice to this:
Concentrating on the new expansion at the expense of a MUCH needed fix is WRONG.
We deserve to have what we were promised in NOVEMBER before we give you more money for an expansion.
I have never ever in my life seen such whining from people. This game is alot of fun even in its current state. I bought this game after being in beta and have enjoyed it completely. Sure there are bugs. I bet some of you still play UO and to this day (7 years later) are wondering how in the hell that game still has all the bugs it has and complain about it right? Yes, UO has been around for 7 years now and it full of bugs.
This game is only 1 year old and has far less bugs then UO. I think some of you need to get your priorities straight. This is just a game and if you don't like it then just quit and take a break.
I have waited for the space expansion for along time and this game seriously needs it to put the much needed Star Wars theme back there where it should have been at launch.
I have said what I needed to say, other then Great job Devs, I know your doing your best and cannot wait to get into space.
Atiknin
Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:16 pm
#355
Thunderheart wrote:
- I understand that there are many people against having Jedi in the game, but it is part of the game. En masse, the community was adamant that we change the holocron/professions system and that time is now. Given the effort that went in to publish 9, we needed to clear the schedule and make room for publish 10 to do a better job on it. The Jedi system needed to be changed because it was effecting everyone. That is why it had the shceudling priority that it has.
That is an interesting statement from the standpoint of setting precedent. Yes, I think pretty much everyone thinks the holocron/professions system is/was awful. It lacks creativity and the magic that the process should have. It also does nothing to encourage a proper jedi playstyle. And yes, I accept that jedi are part of the game. I, for one, think that they should be. However, I think if you're really considering the demands of the community "en masse," you might be persuaded that the jedi fix is not the next thing that should be done.
Again, I return to the 95%/5% example (and in this case more like 99%/1%). It doesn't make economic sense, nor customer satisfaction sense, to spend so much time on something that helps so few people. Holo said that repeatedly in the past.
On the other hand, it does make sense to say 1) the Jedi fix (i.e. publish 10) is something that eventually needs to get done; 2) it doesn't require as many resources as combat fixes; 3) the resources exist to do; so 4) SOE is doing it. In other words, the devs must realize it's a crappy choice, but they choose it nonetheless. Or they're clueless, which I do not think is true. Look at it from a manager's perspective -- you have X resources. You know that you can do Y, because your resources are sufficient. You've promised Z, but when it comes down to it, you'd rather complete Y and get that out of the way.
The problems here are that: 1) the community relations team (who admittedly gets information only from the dev staff) has promised more than the dev staff can deliver; and 2) the players don't really consider jedi revamp to be a great feature.
We can't change what was promised. We can't magically add knowledgeable staff to the dev team (at least, not in time to effect this project). We can present some appeasing scenarios. That is to say, the devs could try for some feature that is better than jedi, but requires less time than the entire combat revamp. And perhaps, that "feature" doesn't exist. The devs may have simply erred in the schedule in a way that seriously damages their credibility.
Gramon Blatt, ME/MM
Nutts
Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:17 pm
#356
Thunderheart wrote:
downertool wrote:
so can we get a timeline kinda thing to show what is coming out when, like when JustG made a state of the game letter that showed what was in publishes and mini pubs
like this
The development cycle still has momentum and we still have some other important items, big and small, coming out of the pipeline.Here is what still lies ahead:
Publish 10 is slated for the end of August, but one of the reasons for these delays is to make as much room as possible for extra implementation and testing time.
Before publish 10, we plan on launching the character transfer system
In Publish 9.2 We’re publishing Wookiee armor sets #2 and #3, new crafting quests and the second swoop race
Publish 9.3 will bring us the third swoop race
Publish 10 will be the Jedi Trials.This will be the new gateway to the Jedi profession that will by a mysterious path to unlocking Force sensitivity.
Publish 10.1 is going to bring us an exciting surprise and also a list of Correspondent requests
Publish 10.2 is focused on the entertainers which features a unique new game experience where entertainers, Dancers and Musicians can perform for an NPC audience for the reward of a new song and dance.
I was hoping that Schematics for Faction Armor would be added, Im pretty sure one of you guys said that it was gonna get added very soon, I just hope soon means before JTL. I believe that it would greatly improve the SW feel on the battlefields both in PvP and PvE, please let us have this fix as a mini publish or something, it would be so much fun to see hords of Stormtroopers attacking Anchorhead instead of the ol' composite crew that represents both factions.
Please fix this for us
TK-132
Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:17 pm
#357
Is it me or is this game becoming something like the movie "Spaceballs" instead of Star Wars. I don't blame you directly TH, but this is sad news, not good. You should've never added jedi one, I knew from november this would get out of hand. And as you try to fix this it is only getting worse. I don't hate the people that are jedi cause their frustrated too. Honestly nobody is gonna wait til fall for JTL except maybe 20,000 people who will probably be all jedi too. The balance was seriously needed! That would've made things more Star Warsy if you ask me. I will probably cancel very soon too. Cause nothing is fun for me and thousands of others at this point. If you Devs tried playin as us for a week you might understand what things are like right now. This also ruins my summer vacation cause that was what I was lookin forward too. Not tryin to be mean but I gotta say somethin.
"Many things are said, but few are true."
"Many things are said, but few are true."
ChewGoBack
Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:18 pm
#358
Check my sig for a guide to removing ratings from your life, FOREVER!
Krayvex
Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:18 pm
#359
Takanudo wrote:
lore7 wrote:
its a twichy game. not a MMORPG. not as many bugs to work out. i would think.
You're probably right. I'm sure the space part will work well by itself. I'm more concerned with how it integrates with the ground game. There's still he matter of the shipwright profession, crafting ships, upgrading ships, transitioning from ground game to space game, etc. That stuff worries me.
-Tak
A twitch based game is actually going to be harder. Coding a rpg requires detail and a large overall designe. Twitch bases and online? Brutal. It has to be so close to real time that it feels like your on a PS2 or players will get frustraited that it lags. You have to code things so that the people who lag a little don't have an advantage and so they aren't disadvantaged either. I've done a bit of both and from an ease standpoint, i'd rather write code for a ground game. It just has to work right. The space game is going to have to work right and also be so fast that the network code is transparent to the player.
Then we get into a huge nightmare, cheating. The only way to make things faster in an online game is to make the client handle more. When you do that you open up access to game mechanics and some players take apart the exe and start tweaking things. The ground game doesn't ahve this problem because everything seems to be done on the server. It'll be a huge problem in JTL.
Southwick
Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:18 pm
#360
Well TH you screwed the pooch. All of you did. And im not talking great dane here. Im talking a field of **edit**zus.
I came back to this game because you had a "schedule" and the combat balance was coming. Why should anyone stay now.
Here we go Ill make a list for you.
1. PVE is stupid. Plain stupid. I can go out and kill instant death creatures and go fix a hotdog. These are red to me as a mbh, and I can kill them (while fixing said hotdog) with 4 boxes in unarmed brawler. People are in your "touph" lairs afk killing things.
2. Buffs are stupid. The fact that I need to get 3000+ buffs to stay competative in PVE is stupid.
3. Missions are stupid. WE ARE DOING SOLO MISSIONS. Did you guys know that? We are going out and grouping in huge groups to get high level missions then
we do them by ourselves without any trouble. Horde of Janta Shaman, notrouble, Im buffed in 80% composite. They cant touch me. I would love to not do these.
You see though, because people can do these missions it has created an overinflated economy where everything is outrageously priced, and the only way to afford anything is to run these missions.
4. PVP is stupid. Yeah you fixed CM and BH. Ok when are you going to fix mind damage. You do realize you cant get your mind to the same levels that you can get your other stats. Only mind damage is worth your time. THE WEAKEST POOL IS THE LEAST HEALABLE AND THE LEAST BUFFABLE. Who thought of this? Of course mind pools would be singled out, its the only way to win.
5.Armor is stupid. Why are there all of these types of armor, I am only going to wear composite, didnt you know that incumbrance means nothing now?
The list goes on. You guys scheduled this. You pushed it back for the jedi publish. NOW YOU WANT TO TELL YOUR PAYING CUSTOMERS TO PAY YOU MORE FOR A BROKEN GAME! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU GUYS. DO YOU LACK AN OUNCE OF BUISNESS ETHICS? SHOULD YOU TAKE AN ETHICS COURSE? DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE GIVE YOU MONEY? GIVE IT A REST. PUT OFF YOUR DAMN EXPANSION IF YOU CANT FIX THE GAME.
GalacticIdiot
Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:18 pm
#361
Thunderheart wrote:
jedi
jedi
jedi
jedi
jedi
jedi
jedi
jedi
jedi
jedi
jedi
jedi
bout what i heard. TH, you guys are lacking the capacity to realize that this is no longer SWG. this is Jedi Academy, KOTOR online. There is nothing BUT jedi to the point of this game. Just like anyone else who dislikes the jedi ingame will say, there are no jedi in this time line, just yoda,luke,vader,emperor. (Before you guys start flaming saying there is...shut up, there was NONE other than these in the movies, considering we"effect the game" then these jedi would have been out in the open in the movies if they existed) Therefore, you have ruined any Star Wars Experience to this game. I can only agree with a friend on my server forums...This letter is the Cancer of SWG...its only a matter of time now
LuthianP
Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:19 pm
#362
WookieIsshe wrote:
Wyyne wrote:Just to add my voice to this:Concentrating on the new expansion at the expense of a MUCH needed fix is WRONG.We deserve to have what we were promised in NOVEMBER before we give you more money for an expansion.I have never ever in my life seen such whining from people. This game is alot of fun even in its current state. I bought this game after being in beta and have enjoyed it completely. Sure there are bugs. I bet some of you still play UO and to this day (7 years later) are wondering how in the hell that game still has all the bugs it has and complain about it right? Yes, UO has been around for 7 years now and it full of bugs.
This game is only 1 year old and has far less bugs then UO. I think some of you need to get your priorities straight. This is just a game and if you don't like it then just quit and take a break.
I have waited for the space expansion for along time and this game seriously needs it to put the much needed Star Wars theme back there where it should have been at launch.
I have said what I needed to say, other then Great job Devs, I know your doing your best and cannot wait to get into space.
Typical SOE Fanboy post.
Elan-Morin
Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:19 pm
#363
Thunderheart wrote:Rather than make any grand posts or documents, I've chosen a different path. One of action. Each week, I'll be working with the community on these items to develop plans, post them and then make them part of the web site. As part of these delay changes, the team has given me additional weight in the decision making process.I have to complete the hiring process, finish the transition and then I'll get to work with the community.
Can we get our bleeds and other DoTs un-nerfed?
NightRaider
Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:19 pm
#364
I am not going to shoot the messenger here. I for one have a great deal of respect for TH and commend him for sticking around this post knowing full well he is going to get blasted.
I am very disappointed and the only real way to show this was to hit the cancel button for all 6 accounts. I give SOE until my subscriprtions expire in 2 months to fix this borked game and if not I am gone for good.
I also will NOT be buying JTL. I have no intention on giving SOE anymore of my money unless things are fixed.
I for one feel we have been dissappointed way too many times and have seen far too many empty promises. As a Smuggler since about month 2 after launch I have very let down by the developement team and have NO faith in any promisies being made.
Good luck TH I hope you can make good on what you promised. I will bet it will definitely come too late to save many subscriptions.