Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IT 6-6: Imperial Crackdown: Some changes made based on In-Test Feedback
Indene wrote:
electricnomad wrote:
So Imperials will be the Smugglers now. Tell us again why we spent skillpoint on this...
After all, Imperials have a 100% chance to avoid a scan, better than a Master Smuggler. So who's going to need a Master Smuggler to help move anyone's contraband?
This does not bode well for the future of Smugglers, and I am more disappointed today than I have ever been with SWG.
I think it was rather clear. IMP OFFICERS of high enough rank. Hardly the same as all imperials. So the answer is all those other IMP's, Neutrals (like me) and rebels. On most servers that is still the majority of the populace even *IF* all imperials had been immune.
-Indene-
Except that I read it as overt imperials get off free everytime. Maybe that's not the case? Maybe rank comes into it even when you're overt?
I'd hate to see this system (which looks very cool to me) flawed slightly with an overt loophole.
* Overt Imperial Officers: None. All junior officers will salute their superiors.
* High Rank Covert: High Ranking officers will be acknowledged and saluted as directed by the Emperor.
* Low Rank: (Identified as having little or no Faction Points spent on Rank): Low Ranking officers found in possession of contraband must pay tribute to the Emperor. Low ranking Imperial soldiers will be given the choice of sacrificing Faction Points or paying a fine.
There are quite a few ranks between private and an officer.
What is convenently left out is the rank of the covert officer to get teh salute.-Indene-
I ask, because many play covert because they aren't PvPers--either they're too weak, or they're just not interested (this ignores those coverts that group with overts in order to gain the element of surprise in pvp).
If these searches occur more than once every few (3+) hours of playtime for any given player, I'm concerned that even more PvEers will be discouraged from the GCW. It's bad enough that PvEers are still encouraged to play Overt (so they easily see and have the option of entering into PvP when an Overt pops up, rather than being initially defenseless and susceptible to a surprise attack by an Overt when TEFd), we certainly don't need more reasons for PvEers to drop out of the GCW.
Based on the rebel response, I would say the devs did thier job correctly. Thier main goal was to make the Empire more appealing, the new recent changes make it possible. Spice and contraband in this timeline was controlled by the Empire, it is very much within continuity for Imperial officers to get off freely.
The majority of therebel player base were certainly not complaining when Imps lost 500 faction regardless of rank whilethey only received a TEF. The tides have changed for the betterment of the game. The Empire should have far more clear advantages over the rebellion to make being an imperial attractive. As of now there are clearly more advantages to being a rebel, otherwise the overall server population would not be flooded with them. On all but a few servers, and Im talking maybe 3 tops, there is anywhere between a 3:1 to a 6:1 ration of rebels over Imperials. The crackdown is designed to thin out rebel numbers (or at least put you into hiding), not increase them.
Look beyond your personal needs and think about what it means to be a rebel. Being a rebel means to "struggle" against evil. By and far the majority of the rebel player base cries out to be oppressed, dominated, challanged. However whenever the devs implement suchchanges in game you all cry for being oppressed. My advice would be stick to your guns when you wish for something, as you will get it.
I agree that high ranking OVERT imperials (Colonel and above) shouldnt be scanned. Everyone else should be under the gun. Just being an Imperial shouldnt give you an automatic waiver of the law, which in essence this does.
Worst case scenario? I'll just stay in Rebel controlled cities. I hear Anchorhead is lovely this time of year
Bzzt. No forced PvP. You opted into pvp by declaring Covert. Why is it so many coverts don't understand they've ALREADY opted in by doing this? Just kill a faction npc, walk by a covert detector, and tell me how you're being 'forced'? You could've stayed neutral.
RedVenom400 wrote:
but this game will regardless , what makes you think cause you pay 15 dollars a game system cant set rules on you , so if you like to fly i this game , just cause you pay 15 dollars a month you have the right to ?
this games gives you ways around pvp use them
sorry if i use my bachelors on phsycology and say that you have a problem with authority and just refuse to follow the rules ,
ill stop flaming because this has nothing to do with the original thread and its ruining the porpuse of it
thanks for your well thought out come backs
and have a nice day
going to see some girl ill be right back tomorow
I have to call bull**edit** on your BS in Psych. Somebody with a BS in Psych can find the caps key, can spell purpose, knows what a period is for, knows what an apostrophe is for, knows how to spell psychology, knows it's a Bachelors in Psychology, and knows how to form sentences and paragraphs with coherent logical thoughts.
In other posts, you insult people claiming they haven't read the manual because they believe that one of the concepts in SWG is you're not forced into PVP and that a Covert faction choice is buying into only limited PvP at your own discretion. Here's some quotes for you from the manual:
"PvP combat is not enabled by default; instead you must actively choose to participate in the PvP system and make yourself vulnerable to attacks by other players." p 172. The emphasis is mine.
"Covert: Declaring as a covert member of a faction allows you to particpate in limited PvP. As a covert membered you'll be allowed to attack enemy NPCs..." p 173.
"You can gain a TEF by attacking an NPC or by aiding an overt member of your faction..." p 175.
Note the very consistent thread here that while covert, you only open yourself to enemy PvP attacks by taking some immediate active action, "attacking an NPC or by aiding an overt member" This change takes that active requirement and pitches out the window. You can now get a TEF by being passive and sitting in the middle of the wilderness at the wrong time.
Yes, you can avoid that passive TEF by not using sliced armor or spices, but, think just briefly and you'll remember that the game system all but forces players to wear sliced armor and use spice for anything but the lowest of the PvE content. There is no realistic option to avoid the TEF and still play within the predefined limits defining the whole concept of Covert faction.
The concept of covert faction as defined in the manual you chose to reference, is to allow players to partake in the GCW, the faction-based quests, the PvE battlegrounds, some additional NPCs to interact with, the monthly storyline, etc, while at the same time choosing when they wish to involve themselves in the whole GCW and open themselves to PvP. This change takes that whole concept and pitches it out the window. No longer does the player control when they partake in PvP. That decision is instead made randomly and capriciously as a penalty for using equipment required by the gaming system.
You repeatedly admonish covert rebels who are being hosed by this whole change saying "stop whining" and yet, as we look back over the last couple of weeks, we find that the system has been altered drastically in response to the "whining" of those around you. So drastically, in fact, that it essentially no longer has any significant affect on imperials. So from this we gather that if a change is necessary to protect your interest, pointing it out to the developer is just and right whereas pointing out that a change is necessary to protect somebody else's interest and minimize your opportunity for griefing, then it's just "whining" and should be ignored. Rather hypocritical wouldn't you say?
The initial proposal had some fairly obvious major flaws, primary among them being that it was harsher on imperials then rebels while having a stated goal of providing incentive to the imperials. I think that's pretty well accepted, and while I find it absurd that imperial officers are now the smuggler of choice in preference to a master smuggler, I don't find the imperial side of the equation all that unreasonable. The fact remains that if the game is to remain consistent with the prestated game goals of the covert status, then covert rebels should be given some option to buy their way out of trouble when an inopportune scan arises.
The argument that covert rebels should just not use contraband items is bogus since not using the contraband items clearly isn't an option given the game system.
The argument that covert rebels that don't want to be covert rebels by the game definition should just go neutral instead... well, that's so obviously self-contradictory as to not need further explanation or discussion.
Exactly, player cities should be the main focus of interaction. Starting cities are what they are... starting cites. They are designed for newbie play. As you get older, you should learn to leave the nest and move on to bigger things.
Neutrals getting negative imperial faction could be very harmful if they ever decide they wish to join the empire later. If thier faction is bad enough, a neutral may decide to go rebel. This actually benefits the rebels based on this logic.
This entire concept shows me that the Empire is more than willing to let its own citizens break the rules and carry contraband, while further oppressing everybody else. Personally, I think this aspect of the publishis just going to make a lot of people unhappy.
The Empire does not allow law-breaking at all, but if you have rank, you can pull rank. It is no different than real life. And yes, the people who should feel the bite of this crackdown the most are the rebels. Why would the Empire punish thier own over a rebel? Think about it. If the devs really wanted to get creative, an imperial should be aable to pin the blame on the nearest neutral or rebel they see. This publish will make alot of people unhappy, mainly the rebels whose time is well due for a crackdown...
Nouva wrote:
Spice and contraband in this timeline was controlled by the Empire, it is very much within continuity for Imperial officers to get off freely.
Just because it's under their control doesn't mean they should be able to "get off freely" for being in possession. Irl, police offers are responsible for enforcing anti-drug laws, but that doesn't mean they'll get a pat on the back if found in possession of drugs themselves.
It's true that Imps should have a chance of avoiding repercussions, and that this should be based on rank. I actually posted a thread on this a couple weeks ago. The higher the rank, the better the chance the person should be able to avoid any penalties (representing that they either know someone high enough in authority who owes them a favor, or that the inspector is of a sufficiently low rank and willpower that he could be intimidated to turn a blind eye). But under no circumstances should any Imp be 100% immune to the possibility of repercussions (except possibly at the *highest* rank achievable in game).