Development Cycle Archive
Thread: “Oh my…sir, he says there are several creatures approaching�
Solo4114 wrote:
What I like is the notion that they'll reduce the reliance on pets. I see pets as a major detriment in their current form to balanced gameplay. I'm going to reiterate my previous suggestions that people who own pets and use them in combat be required to use a particular control device that takes the place of a hand-held weapon. Otherwise, you guy the pet guy two weapons to use at once, and the rest of us either have to buy a pet to compete, or accept the fact that we'll always be weaker. Seems unbalanced to me. Oh, and the same would go for substituting "combat droid" for "pet". Weapons are weapons are weapons. You guys designed the game such that people could only use one weapon at a time. Unfortunately, this design concept has not been transferred over to ALL weapons, hence the use of combat pets in addition to hand-held weapons.
Mind you, I have no problem with people using pets in combat in general. If you want to use a pet instead of a gun, that's fine. That's your choice. But you shouldn't get to whip out and use two weapons at once where every other profession is limited only to one. That just creates serious imbalance, which leads to exactly what we've seen: everyone and his mother owning a surrogate fighting machine, be it a probot (pre-nerf), a CH pet, or a faction pet.
**lets see an average CH player, who is not a dabbler, the pet hits for about 300 damage and the player for also about 300 damage...so total 600 damage..yet you have BH/commandos that can hit between 3k and 7k damage..how is this fair and balanced? we may have 2 weapons but those two weapons combined are no match for other professions.
I'd be happy to use a pet instead of a gun, if they hit for the same amount of damage as their weapon counterparts.
I think that the CH tree is an obvious choice in this game. The 'shield' buffer is the only real cover that you have. As Land and buildings have some pretty annoying bugs with them, like being able to shoot through them.The obvious choice is to gain where the realism lacks, so shielding with appropriate lvl's makes sense.
Here are some areas for investigation outside of the pet buffer that has led to their growing attendance:
1. STATS: Whyare all players only static to ~1k? When we go up against, say a Storm Trooper that is 9k? Pretty unrealistic and confusing for someone that doesn't have a lvl'ing indicator such as their pet or soldiers.There should be some reflection of single person lvl'ing and respected stat enhancement 'visible' to the user. This is the main reason whyplayers go for the pets.
2. WEAPONS: Why are the main weapons as foundin the movie so whimpy or so hard to find high dmg ones? I thought that one hit with a laser carbine killed storm troopers in the movie?Why are there introduction of Star Wars articles such as rocket launchers and flame throwers? Must be some found in the books somewhere ...right? It's the main reason I'm going for Commando and CH.
3. ARMOR: I've found this equally confusing to know how this benefits me and I've found many that are running around pretty much naked. Or completely tanked in BH gear. Although I've seen many players changingappearances as to what mission that they are going on.Maybe this influences the percentage taken from the stats, this hasn't through my eyes 'visible'. Once again, the pets have better indicators in this area.
4. NATURAL COVER: How is it that I or the target can shoot through land? On another note, why am I blocked from going through obstacles and the targets just sweep on through? I admit that sometimes it's really benefitted me and I've actually used it to my advantage. But it's another reason to have a distraction such as a pet, cause you know that the pet will be the focus of attack.
I have to agree that pets have pretty much taken over the game, but I think that they should not just be pulled as some have indicated. They have their place, but like the Jedi in this game, it should be a rare thing, as in the movie series. Or make it so that when the pet dies, it's dead, just like we become. Maybe have a price attached to recloning it back with damage attached for non-loc clones. (I cringe at my own admission)
On a seperate note, I think the main idea that I anticipated for this game was faction vs faction battling against real players intertwined with computer generated ones. Battlefields/fortresses spawned by computer (or main faction leaders drawing the battlefield/mission objectives.. or better yet, them figuring out how to convey the main story objectives that they are involved with on a high levelto their faction) that would give notices to players that a battle has just broke out and players race to location to become involved in that story line, realtime. With real rewards and losses. such as damage or destruction ofcities next to drawn battlefields.I see that the pets and soldiers are an effort to lend to that idea on a small scale. It is far from coordinated to any of the mentioned potential.
Thanks,
WolfCoast
Master CH, Master Marksman, soon Novice Commando.
According to Sony's Player Profession Metrics, PVP Players make up less than 25% of the overall Player population----Just a Statistic
No matter what game you play there are always going to be classes that are more powerful than other classes/professions.
If you choose a Class/Profession you choose it for whatever reason, wether it be for Power, Money, Fun, Etc.----This doesnt mean people should choose a class/profession to complain about how another class/profession is more powerful, if that is the case, maybe they should have chosen another class/profession.
I ultimately believe that an Elite profession should be just that--Elite, so you are a master of that class/proffesion. I also agree that the CH Class should be balanced----within its class. I Dont think it needs balancing in the game.
I know there has also been a lot of discussion about Nerfing the Smuggler class for their Fiegn Death tactic so they dont get as much damage---ok then what??? Gonna Nerf the Imps so they cant have anymore AT-ST's?????Hmmmmm, and the Jedi's too???? Hmmm. My point from 2 paragraphs before. One shot from a AT-ST and the Smugs dead, One slice from a Jedi's LS and the Smugs Dead.
Just some thoughts of mine
BTW i am a Novice weaponsmith
Thunderheart, here is an idea I had that will help with balance issues. Because lets face it, all these issues are directly related to people getting the full benefits of a profession without fully sacrificing skill point, correct? Example, going up one or two trees in a profession and being almost equal to a master. My idea:
First thing I'd like to say is dabbling is not a crime! But.... sometimes we can take advantage of combining certain skills to create balance issues for the game. My solution?
In Elite/Hybrid Professions require the first horizontol row of skills to be completed before the second horizontol row is able to be learned. Starter professions stay the same.
By learning the entire first row, the second row is unlocked. Think of it this way, where is the power? A majority of the time, the power is higher in the skill tree, the 3rd or 4th row. The way it is now, we can learn one vertical skill tree and get the power out of the profession for a 1/4 of the skill points, a shortcut. Obviously flame throwers and lightning cannons come to mind. We've just recently seen the CH tree under go achange because of this issue, people were doing as a described with the left 2 vertical skill trees.
Think about it, just as much flexibility in choosing your professions/mix and matching, but the system is less likely to create im-balances.
My Ideas on what to do with Battle Droids and such Creature Equivalent Droids to return this game back to Star Wars Form from its eluded Digimon Status.
Now I dont know if this has been mentioned or not, nor do I have the time or energy to sort through most of the spam on these boards to do so (post count speaks for itself) but here goes.
I have several ideas to help shake this game for all to enjoy, make PvP and PvE more fun, and to elaborate on having more Droids and such mechanics involved to haelp balance out the overpowered "Pet Wars Graulaxies" we have on hand.
Several Types of Droid Classes:
For years as a Star Wars fan droids have always sparked most of our interest. Now to make this game feel more "Star Warsy" a lot have complained as to having more droids that are "useful" in battle, not only to thin out the pet population (remember to have your pets spayed and nudered), but to also have a grand market again for one of the games coolest professions, Droid Engineer (for the record the author isnt a Droid Engineer, he is a TKA/Chef but I will get into that later).
In order to create a proper balance between Beast and Machine, you need to have a contrast to eachother. From droids that can equal the same effectiveness as a Greater Sludge, all the way up to a Droid that is effective as a Rancor or everyones new Organic ATST, the Graul. But with such power comes a price (see "Certing"such Powerbelow).
For an example, I will not get into too deap (Sony doesnt sign my paychecks so I dont want to do all the work for them :smileyvery-happy
.
3 Types of Equality:
Lets say you have 3 types of droids to equal 3 popular CH pets.
Probot. Yes Devs, amp this bad boy back up to a reasonable level. We are not talking a floating Chess Piece of Doom, but to a level that is comparable to a Grand Wrix or GSP. Say something like, Light Armor and a 5500-7500 HAM with180-240 Damage.
Assasin Droids. There are many assasin droids that can be included in this department which can equal that of a Arachne Drone or Merek King. Something mid level CH that can do an effective job. Light-Medium Armor, 8000-10K HAM,more Effectiveness and 250-300+ Damage.
Droidekas. Everyone wants one! This can be the Rancor-esque/Grualer Droid. Now they arent too hard to take out in the game on Lok with proper personel support. But in the movies they had a Jedi Master and coming of Knight on the run with their shields. So thus they are a force to be recon with. Heavy Armor, 8-10K HAM, 350-400+ Damage.
So there is a quick layout for driod types...we cant forget about a "non-certed" droid in the DZ-70 Fugitive Tracker. Its name is louder than its bite. Amp it up to the new level 10 non CH status instead of level 1.
"Certing" such Power:
A lot of speculation and disgruntleness has been thrown around as to how to set these up. Let me first point out to the devs that other fighting classes (yes CH is a fighting class now...sad but true) have to spend the SAME Skill Points as a CH does and no where near has the power they do. I ama Master TKA and good luck for me to solo a Rancor without a healer on me. Yet a NoviceMarksman with some CH skills (less points used than me) can take it with their trusty "meat-shield". /endrant
I will point out that the idea TH mentioned of DE only certing for certain "battle droids" is far-fetched. Can an Architect be the only one "certed" for guild hall placement? Can a Bio-Eng only control certain pets they create? Can Chefs be "certed" for certain buffs to take, as well as Doctors? You open up a lot of heartache and you think its bad now with CH...it will be even worse that a "crafting" profession has such battle prowess.
"Certing" these driods can be very simple. Set up "certs" in EVERY Elite Combat profession in certain levels of the trees to balance what a CH would have. Now non Elite-Combat professions will try to complain...but if your "non-combat" why do you need such power? Your content with non-CH pets...so the "new" Level 10 Fugitive Tracker I mentionedcan fill that void. After all, you only need it to distract for your escape...since your supposedly not built for fighting.
Examples for "certing" can be as followed. The Droideka mentioned earlier should be a Master "Cert" in the "Elite" Profession of choice. Just as the Graul and Rancor will appear to be in the new CH set. The lesser droids can be spread out amongst some trees to counter balance it all. And instead of "Certing" like a weaponhave something like CH's do and call it "Driod Control Levels". Spread them out as you will with CH's and you can create a great mix of Driod and Creatures in this game.
The bottom line is the game lacks the driods we all expect them to have in a Sci-Fi Star Wars genre. Doing some of the ideas expressed I feel would help balance the game on a much more even plane and make for a lot more exciting PvP/PvE adventure. It will give every fighting class fun, creativity, and equality. And will boost the Droid Engineer's Market through the roof. In closing I would hope some would agree and ideas expressed would be taken into consideration, not only for the sake of the game, but for the sake of fun.
Thuderheart wrote:
"Im glad this is having a positive impact with everyone."
You're kidding right? Glad you like to selectively read posts and have ingored every request not to nerf nonCH pets since part 2 of your thread.
You sir, are wearing rose coloured glasses. Nice to see it finally confirmed that the devs and their mouthpiece onlysee what they want to see in the forums.
So nice thatSOE have finally gotten a better communication system in place at last (guffaw).
In case you'reblind, here's a quick summary- it is the CH players who love your changes, while a lot of nonCH feel they are getting the shaft. Nobody wants as many pets as there are in the game, but until players can tank better,a lot of playersare reliant on them - both as CHs and nonCHs. I repeat, pets stink, they don't really belong in the game - they ruin the 'look and feel' - but they are a necessary tool at this time.
Blithely ignoring negative feedback is going to cost you repeatedly until you learn that the most vocal posters (the CHs in this case) are not the only ones paying for their subscriptions.
Unless you make PCsable totank, or provide adequate robot support, you are going to have a lot of complaints and cancelled accounts as a result of this nonCH nerf. Lots and lots of folks have told you this since you posted part 2 which proposed reducing nonCH pet levels to CL10 but you have refused to acknowledge even ONE of these complaints/warnings.
Thanks for making a lot of us feel you *still* aren't listening to a word we type. Great PR work.
Excellent post. And I am not just saying that because we are in the same guild. I am a ch and am in full agreement. I used to be a droid engineer, but gave up on it as there is no market or real use for it in it's current state. Non-CH's are at a much higher disadvantage than CH's, and some balance needs to be put in place.
Again, great post.
Thunderheart,
I do not understand one thing. If a non-CH gets level 10 pets, does that mean a Novice CH with +10 skill will get level 20 pets? I hope so, but I am not certain that is how it will work. Will novice CH be limited to level 10 pets also? Please clarify this. Thanks
Simple solution to balance the combat professions in terms of CHs vs. the Universe:
Require a pet control device to be equipped AS a weapon. You want your pet to tank for you? no problem. But you don't get to use a blaster at the same time. End of story. Balance restored.
This look much better to me than the previous explanation. I have one question, cause as I was reading your post it occurred to me...those of us who are master CH already...uh...we'll stay mastered, correct?