Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Schematics limited to 100
Allbetta wrote:Is that kind of response really productive or necessary? You may not agree with people who don't like this "fix", but responding in such a condescending manner is only going to put people needlessly on the defensive.
Let's stick to offering our opinions and constructive feedback rather than pointless flames where we try and convince our fellow players how much smarter we are than they are.
My personal opinion is that we could easily live with the 100 limit if we either removed the need for "identical" sub-components (Liquid Suspension, Chemical Release, etc...). If I could throw in 25 Biological Effect controllers with one serial number, and 75 with another serial number (for example), then that would make things easier. Just an idea.
The afore mentioned concept of providing sub-schematics that only require you to provide the resources vs. the actually X number of sub-components when making the end product would also make the 100 limit acceptable.
Otherwise, I support the 300-500 limit with the current setup.
Just my opinion.
Your idea fails because you will still not be able to make a usable schematic. You not only need identical items the schematics need to use the same serial number items as in the original schematics, as well as original resources. This would require a whole redesign of both crafting and the factory system.
The easiest, simplest behaviour is to maintain the current 1000 limit and fix the "bug" with the slider that does not allow you to slide to the current max 1000.
Any other idea is coding, effort, redesign, balance etc etc etc and there is no reason to spend one minute of dev time on it.
Just keep it the same and ask the UI dev to fix the slider.
Problem solved, status quo, everyone happy.
what is the reason for this change...
if you would give REASONS..it is easier for u sto respond and offer better alternatives....
I am against this....unless you can offer an argument as to WHY it should be changed i would just leave it
So all of you guys are EXPLOITERS and you want to be rewarded for this! I never knew that you can type a 0 after 100for my factory schematics. And yes it is an exploit because you guys are taking advantage of a bug. So why should the dev reward you by officially increasing it to 1000? I think they should banned you all! SOE should do the right thing and fix this bug to 100.
Nuldien
Shadowfire
Being a lead programmer & designer in the gaming industry for over 6 years I understand fully the concept of DB issues and how theyrelate.
What I will say, however is this:
1. We've been playing for a couple of months using the 1000 limit. How much of a problem has it been for the DB so far?
2. What should the limit of the schematic be? Read the responses on this thread -- Nobody is asking for more than 1000 -- but over 95% (myself included) are asking for more than 100. Therefore the solution seems simple. The limit for schematics should be the maximum allowable value between 100 and 1000 that the DB will comfortably support.
Good luck. I believe the negative impact of a 100-item limit on schematics from a gameplay perspective has been quite well spoken by the community. Please try to keep this as high as the technology will support. 
GPF.
If you will look, you will see that my statement is in paragraphs. I simply did not put lines between the paragraphs, whichI will do in the reply, to once again help you 'short bus' person. ( Please note the paragraphs in the previous statement ending and the next starting)
I have 4 different accounts, by the way. One is a master combat medic / master doctor and another is a Master Armorsmith / Master weapon smith. So i would think i know what i am talking about, as well as understand all about the sub-components. This you should have deduced by my talking about two crafting sessions one being a "finished product" .
Nuldien wrote:
So all of you guys are EXPLOITERS and you want to be rewarded for this! I never knew that you can type a 0 after 100for my factory schematics. And yes it is an exploit because you guys are taking advantage of a bug. So why should the dev reward you by officially increasing it to 1000? I think they should banned you all! SOE should do the right thing and fix this bug to 100.
Nuldien
Shadowfire
When asked if it was a bug, we got a wall of silence... not a word from a dev confirming that we should not be doing this..
I know on Shadowfire I sell over 2000 B stimpacks a week and im still have a hard time keeping up doing batchs of 1k if it going down to 100will kill my biz as I have a young baby at home and only have a few hours a day to play and run around and get resources and load factories.
Having to do runs of 100 will take me for 2k packs a week to about 300 if im lucky.
Bad call DEVs
Thisis an unusable amount for chefs.
that means 4 crates of food. which people like to buy 2-3 of at a time.
food takes usually 3 combines. so thats 3 factory runs for a total of 1-2 customers.
yeah really brilliant.
speaking of which, why does a high level food take so long to make in a factory for maybe 20 minutes worth of buff? Food needs big schematics, and also should be made quicker in a factory. Otherwise, increase the stacksize (and of course resource cost) by 5 fold.
Glad I quit chef recently.
- Tracy, Valcyn.
OK, replies are piling up faster than my ability to read, and I have to get ready for work, so I'm going to have to reply after finishing page 9 (of at least 12 so far). I'll keep my points short, since most of them seem to have been covered already:
One factory run of anything, even components, takes longer than I have to play most days, so this limits me to one factory run per day. Limiting that to 100 subcomponents, when many of my tailor schematics require five identical ones, means that I can sell an absolute total of 20 items per day. I can make and deliver 20 items in half an hour, counting a round-trip on the shuttle and running time to the customer's shop and back, which leaves me an hour and a half or so per day of game time with nothing to do. This is not acceptable.
It also makes it impossible for me to make even one full crate of my best selling items. I was negotiating a deal with a merchant to drop off the occasional crate of black gunman's dusters. Now I can't make a full crate of gunman's dusters, the most I can make in one factory run of them is 24. And to do that means that's one day less of components, which means that it drops my productivity even further. What's more, it means that any merchant who wants to keep, say, almost 100 dusters in stock has to have 100 items in inventory somewhere, or in the stockroom somewhere, instead of 4. Great, another merchant nerf.
Third, what the heck is this doing in "proposed" changes? This change went live for at least some components a week ago, at least for synthetic cloth, at least on Kettemoor. It's been chewing on me all week, I just never got around to posting about it.
Finally, let me endorse the recommendation that many people have made. Take one factory crate of 25. Add 1, minimum, for the schematic. Multiply that by 10, which seems to be the top number of identical components to go into a finished item. If the limit for components is below 260, then it is impossible to make one crate of finished items. Therefore the limit for schematics must be at least 260. If you can't make thelimit schematics for components different than the limit for finished items, then the limit for all items must be at least 260.
We have only really seen a backlash this big on with regards to the House item limits implimented on the dreaded Aug 13th "big boy" patch.
Everyone on this forum that said 100 is not enough, you all deserve a big pat on the back. AND Holocron also deserves one too for seeing that we have a point, although there still may be some backlash (and deservedly so) if the plan implemented is not similar or better/easier on crafters.
Since there are no NPC vendors selling tons of stuff like most other MMOGs... and since the economy is completely player driven (meaning by crafters)... ANYTHING that makes life tougher on crafters will effect every SWG subscriber.
The few people that don't see that either have never crafted (so they don't know what they are talking about) OR they just can't seem to see the big picture (like A. Huffington in CA).
Congrats to the crafting community for having so many people participate and explain the process of HOW the SWG economy works.
IF YOU MUST LIMIT THIS, then do so. But in replacement of mass producing off one schematic, allow us to queue in up to 5, 10, 20? schematics at a time. I like to log off knowing I can expect x amount of items to craft with when I log in, and this would help alleveate some of the frustration.
Thanks for the opportunity to offer my feedback.
Nuldien wrote:So all of you guys are EXPLOITERS and you want to be rewarded for this! I never knew that you can type a 0 after 100 for my factory schematics. And yes it is an exploit because you guys are taking advantage of a bug. So why should the dev reward you by officially increasing it to 1000? I think they should banned you all! SOE should do the right thing and fix this bug to 100.
Nuldien
Shadowfire
Its not an exploit when the client lets you type in 1000, and when you type in 1001 YOU GET AN ERROR MESSAGE THAT SAYS THE *VALID* RANGE IS BETWEEN 1 AND 1000!
Grrrr!