Development Cycle Archive

Thread: IC4: Path of the Jedi

WillburWright
Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:29 pm
#339





WesBelden wrote:



Ok, here's just a few ideas that will probably be overlooked due to my insanely late posting and disliked by most because.. well, my ideas are just like that



Ideas for unlocking FS character slot:


I really like the idea of two posts I've seen so far and perhaps merging the two together would be cool - one was that once you've been to every POI and done a fair number of quests for NPCs you unlock the slot NO!!!, the other was to have a series of FS unlocking theme parks which you can only get to by doing something to unlock it - NO


I'd like to see that once you've visited every POI and done a fair amount NPC quests and gotten yourself a high (maybe highest?)rank for your faction, you unlock access to this series of theme parks and once you've completed these, you get the FS slot.NO






Idea for Jedi light side/darkside points:


Someone mentioned that every decision a player makes, be it chose to help out a dancer girl from a random spawn (should that be implemented - hope it is, top idea) or shoot a farmer for no reason, this should reflect on the player's light side/dark side standing. With random spawn events or walking down certainpaths available in Jedi quests this would be easily implemented. For the rest of PvE, simply use the exhisting faction points system. So, every time you gain/lose faction deemed to be 'lightside' (eg towns persons) you gain/lose lightside points and lose/gain dark side points. In PvP, have it set so that every time you DB someone you gain dark side points, with the possible exception of BHs that have you as their target. YES






Quests while a Jedi:


They should be long, they should be numerous and diverse, with different possabilities for completion - good NPC interaction is key to this - the first COA Act III mission was a great example of this! (Interaction that is).






Jedi Titles: Padawan, Apprentice, Journeyman, Knight, Master - no more, no less.







Jedi trials:


Have a cave(or make use ofexhistingcaves)that only Jedi can enter and one at a time at that (some sort of Force illusion prevents other characters from seeing the enterance). The player must get through it in one piece after being sent there by their master - whether there's some old nemesis from a previous quest that'sblue glowyand they need totalk to themor fight/not fight them (see Luke and his encounter at the cave in ESB), or some beastie they need to over come, if they make it through, they get to the next title/level.






Player co-operation:


Allow JediPCs, once they have reached Knightto take on padawans of their own (one at a time though!) - allow them to selectand assign which quests they go on and allow them to accompany them along the way should the padawan/knight wish to.






Idea for large Jedi populations:


Have a server cap on how many 'true Jedi' you can have at one time for Jedi Knights and Jedi Masters. By true Jedi I mean active jedi that go around spanking people with lightsabers and doing crazy force wielding stunts. For all those with FS/Jedi characters that aren't the lucky ones to be in the cap, have them be 'Hermit Jedi' or some such title. They can use their powers, but in a more limited capacity, carry blasters instead of sabers (some RPG classes of Jedi actually exhist where the Jedi uses a blaster, might be in some EU back history, not sure).






Ok, that's it, hope I didn't infuriate, frustrate or baffle anyone there - hope it was of some use!




Make it one quest, from YOUR OWN "master". He guides you through the quest, giving you advice, but he does not hold your hand. This master will be a random spawn. If a casual player logs in, he/she might see a mysterious old man watching him/her. A power gamer might find one while soloing in the jungle. They could also be found in cities. The master will only respond to one person at a time, he will ignore all others. (He would be like one of the many NPC's wandering around any given city) He will give you a holocron, which contains recordings of his teachings, and that will guide you on your big quest. Your quest would be based on your level. If you are a TKM, it would be just as hard for you as it yould be a Master Marksman. You would have to do many trials, just as Luke did, but the force is on your side....


LeBob
Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:48 pm
#340




Flatfingers wrote:

If we're going to rethink what Jedi do, we need to spend a little time thinking about who Jedi are. What is it about Jedi that really makes them distinct from everyone else, and how can we incorporate these differences into SWG?


I. GENERAL CONCEPTS


There is a simple and well-known two word sentence that tells you everything you need to know about Jedi: "Power corrupts."


Power is seductive; when you have it, you want more. For some people, power changes from being a means to some end to being an end in and of itself. Instead of using power to achieve a goal, power is used to gain more power. When this happens, the person or institution wielding that power has become corrupt.


What makes this corruption so seductive is that it's always so easy to rationalize the quest for more power. "Well, if [a dictatorship] works...." "Join me, and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son."


Some people are able to resist this temptation. For whatever reason, some people are so constituted as to recognize the importance of limits to individual power, and to voluntarily impose those limits on themselves, even at those times when greater power is most desirable.


Not everyone can be so strong. Sooner or later, everyone succumbs to the whispers... "Take your Jedi weapon and strike me down with all of your hatred." "I wasn't strong enough... but I promise, I won't fail again."


Power corrupts.



--Flatfingers





I think you're referring to the passage in George Orwell's Animal Farm: "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely"


reference




SWGEntertainer.com
Emperor Palpatine (from "Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith"):
"Every single Jedi is now an enemy of the Republic. Do what must be done. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy."
-I support ATK people and playstyles.
Account cancelled as of June 23, 2005

DarthHiddious
Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:50 pm
#341

Give the player jedis ability to give quests to those who seek to open their fscs. First a player must find the jedi and that can be quite hard if they want to stay hidden and then they have to convince the jedi to give him the quests, might have to bribe him or run some errands for him before even considered to be given the actual quests. Then the player must do a series of quests that include a variety of different skills (not master skills though couse then we have hologriding all over again). And make it so that 1 jedi only can take on 1 apprentice then he have to choose wisly on who he wants to train.

There are guarantieed lots of problems with this idea and it might not even be possible to do but its just some thoughts.
breati
Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:52 pm
#342

I think it would be interesting if the holocrons gave you the info to start your quest. Such as where to go or what to do to start you out. Then you can go to places and do things and only you will see the conversations on your screen so people wont realize you are a jedi, like when you talk to a recruiter and he says your rank but only to you. There could be a large series of quests intermingled acrost the worlds that send you anywhere and your path in this is only revealed to you from the holocron. Maybe you would only need one holo and it would give you more tips when you complete a quest. I think this is good since in the art books it says holos help gide you through the force. The quests could not be combat based but be puzzles or adventures using thought and ingenuity so your characters stats are not involved just the players brain and imagination. Good or smart game players would finish or maybe ones that are just determined enough to keep trying till there is no other solution making it long for but still possible for most people. Thats all I got.




Ra'ke Ina WAR guild founder
_________] The Rebellion is here [_________
Light Jedi | Rebel Pilot


(gnn[[[[[[[[[[]nnnWX9&ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg)

LeBob
Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:53 pm
#343

DEVs


will there be anyone to fill in for TH while he is on vacation so that we may get a few of our questions answered? or should we focus the thread on discussing things between ourselves until he gets back?
thanks!





SWGEntertainer.com
Emperor Palpatine (from "Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith"):
"Every single Jedi is now an enemy of the Republic. Do what must be done. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy."
-I support ATK people and playstyles.
Account cancelled as of June 23, 2005

RohmEnari
Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:38 pm
#344


Ok, Thunderheart and the rest of the community, here are my ideas. Take from them what you will.


Regarding the "Jedi Titles"....



  • There is no Jedi Academy therefore you are not Jedi unless trained by a Jedi Master.

  • You are Force Sensitive and nothing more till you find your master who can train you.

Regarding Training....



  • I am aware that the Jedi receive their current training from a Jedi Trainer that doubles as an NPC in some cities. This just plain doesn't make sense and seems to me to be a cop out. Here is my solution.

  • Upon gaining your force sensitive abilities and before you are trained as an Initiate, you are given a message onscreen much like the one given by the Holocrons giving you the location of your Master. Example: "Luke! You will go to the Dagobah system. There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me." Upon receiving this information you must head to that location and meet with your Jedi Master who will instruct you in the ways of the force.

  • Once you meet with this Master he asks you to complete a task which will prove your dedication and willingness to accept the ways of the force. At this point you have no lightsaber and no crafting tool. You must complete this mission on your own. After you complete this mission and return to him, he grants you the use of a lightsaber, a lightsaber crafting tool, and a communication device (see Regarding Communication Device for more info). He then gives you your next mission which is how you earn your XP to advance in skill.

Regarding XP Advancement.....



  • To gain XP to be able to advance in skill you must complete tasks set forth by your Jedi Master. These tasks are primarily missions that require not the use of your lightsaber, but your head. OH NO! GOD FORBID THE JEDI THINK!!!

  • At first you are given simple missions and tasks to advance in skill and the higher you go the tougher they get obviously.

  • To advance to the next skill box, you must complete a required amount of missions before your Master will agree to train you.

  • XP can still be gained by killing NPC's and creatures, but here is the catch. If you attack a Yellow Mob (which is obviously peaceful) then you punished by having XP taken away from you. Example: You are attacked by a Hurrton that aggroed you and you manage to kill it . 3k of XP right there. However if you openly attack a hurrton that has not aggroed you, you will LOSE 3k of XP. Jedi following the lightside path SHOULD NOT be killing everything they come across. The Darkside however is a different matter.

  • Halfway through your training to Jedi Padawan you are tempted by the Dark side of the force while on a mission from your Master. It is at this point (perhaps after you have mastered two of skill trees leading to Padawan) that you are given the choice to alter your destiny.

  • Much like Knights of the Old Republic, you will now have the choice in conversations with your Master and in quests he gives you, to choose different things to say that will forever change your path as a Jedi.

  • The mission that tempts you to the darkside can be one similiar to the mission Yoda gave Luke on Dagobah where he was sent into the swamp to confront the source of darkside energy. Should you fail, you will then be contacted, much the same way you were at the beginning of your training which led you to your current master, by a master of the dark side of the force. Your choices from here on out determine which Master you will continue to train with. Should you stay true to the lightside and deny the darkside then you will remain with your current master and take the long and arduous trek to becoming a Jedi Knight and then someday a Master yourself. Should you sway from that path and take the easier more seductive route then your path will lead to great power, but as we all know...power does not come without a price.

  • Once you reach Jedi Padawan you then have a choice to make. Continue on with your master of the lightside or slay him and turn to the dark side. You will then advance to the rank of Jedi Apprentice and continue on with your training.

  • Should you have chosen the path of the dark side, your powers grow in strength much quicker than that of a lightside user. Example: "The darkside is quicker, easier, more seductive." There must be a balance however and for every time you use your darkside powers you incur a TEF that enables anyone to attack you and you suffer incredible wounds to your health and mind.

  • As a darkside user you have the chance of randomly causing the Berkerk ability to go into effect while fighting, granting you more strength and speed, but losing the ability to heal yourself and use specials for a period of time. The darkside is about anger and rage and thusly should suffer the effects of this uncontrolled anger at times.

  • Also as a Darkside user, the negative XP no longer affects you. Slaughter to your hearts content, but to keep it balances the more senseless slaughter you partake in, the greater the chances you will activate your random berserk and lose total control.

  • Darkside users should NOT be able to heal themselvs to the extent that a lightside user can.

  • Lightside Jedi should not have the unbridled strength of a Darkside user. They do not incur the penalty of the Berserk status, but at the same time the raw physical strength of the Darkside user has them outclassed.

Regarding Communication Device....



  • In Episode One, Qui-Gonn used a machine to determine the Midichlorian count of Anakin's blood. Now what I am about to propose strays from this but I believe the idea to be sound

  • You are given the Comm. Device by the Master upon meeting him and this device functions as a survey tool in essence.

  • The Master never stays in the same location and to find him you must use this device which is only usable by the person it was awarded to. You can never trade it. So you activate the device after you have completed the mission and you follow the midichlorian tracker to his location. Once there you can then continue with your mission. The idea of a stationary Trainer that doubles as an NPC is just not right. A Jedi Master would hide in the wilderness or out of site of those looking for him. Take Yoda and Obi-wan for example. One hid on a planet full of life to better hide his own presence in the force and the other secluded himself in the wastelands of Tatooine.

Regarding Jedi Quests....



  • Jedi Knight Quests should consist of missions that involve more interaction with NPC's and players as opposed to simple search and destroy missions. Puzzles, riddles and thought provoking quests should be the norm for the Jedi. The path to becoming a master of the lightside is long but in the end your power is immense and not tainted like that of a Dark Jedi Master.

  • Dark Jedi Knight Quests should involve more murderous plots and evil schemes.

  • Both sides should quest for the Archives pertaining to their chosen side and unlock the history of their order. This in turn could lead to new missions and loot, including New Crafting Tools that allow you to place structures of your own like tents or huts for your jedi character, new lightsaber schematics (there are more designs available than just the ones in the movies ya know), rare items that can be places in the homes of these jedi, and the ability to craft clothing and items unique to their chosen Order.

Regarding the Jedi Master Status....



  • This should be extraordinarily hard to achieve from both sides. Harder even still for the lightside. No one wants to see huge numbers of Jedi wandering around in game.

  • Once you gain the status of Jedi Master, to avoid having someone just cut loose and start killing everything in sight, you STILL incur a penalty for senseless killing. Just like faction rating, should you go so low in your Lightside points, you stripped of your Master Title and must either work to achieve it again or keep killing and continue to lose the skills you worked so hard to gain. This would be good for those who decide to embrace the dark side after having become a lightside master, but the process to do so would be lengthy. Not only would you have to gain enough negative Lightside points to lose skills, but you would then, after having lowered yourself back to the level of Jedi Apprentice, you will be contacted by a Darkside Master who will train you from there on out in the ways of the darkside.

Anyway, these are my ideas for now. I can't say that they are outstanding or even great or even whether or not anyone will pay any attention to them. But hopefully they will at least spur some ideas in someone and people can discuss them. Thanks for taking the time to read all this.





Your friendly neighborhood Ranger,


Reyune


Rimwolf
Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:04 pm
#345

I'd like to see special quests for jedi who pursue the dark side. Since Dark Jedi are considered by the game to be covert imperials, I'd like to see them actually have a series of quests from characters such as Darth Vader, Mara Jade and even the Emperor himself.


These missions could include assasinations, investigating imperial officers and citizens for signs of treason, hunting down light side jedi and searching ruins for things like holocrons and Sith artifacts. Essentially, I'd like to see the dark jedi fill the roles of Imperial Inquisitor and Emperor's Hand (Mara Jade wasn't the only one).


Rewards for these missions could be credits, schematics for sith weapons and armor, and Imperial Guard robes and armor. Also, once certain missions have been completed, the character could have the following profession titles to choose from in addition to what they get from skill boxes: Imperial Guard, Imperial Inquisitor and Emperor's Hand.


alrhon
Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:04 pm
#346

These are my ideas. As in many books and such about jedi. I think Jedi should have skill points to spend and should have more than one tree so that they could specialize in their force powers. For example some Jedi may want to be more powerful in Healing or More Powerful in Sword fightin or More Powerful in the use of their force powers using their mind. I think this would make the game and playing Jedi more interesting and more specialized. Remeber not all Jedi are Equal in thier force powers or what powers they wish to develope. Think about it, Makes a little Sense doesn't it?
Corschen
Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:44 pm
#347

There should be a completely different method of unlocking for EVERY master elite/hybrid profession. Maybe it would be required that you do one crafter/entertainer and one combat method to unlock. There should also be more variations of both dark and light jedi. ie some are extremely effective with sabers, some are extremely effective with the force etc...



Corschen Bushdrap
~ Master Bounty Hunter~
~ Pistoleer 0*0*4*3 ~
"To those with the credits to hire him, his name is synonymous with success. "

JediKnightChris
Sun Feb 22, 2004 12:22 am
#348

i think mastering the professions should still be required to unlock jedi, however remove the mystery one and add quest to unlock the fs character. this way the holo's will still be useful and u don't have to search blindly for the last profession that everyone really hates. also this would help those that already mastered the holo to keep their hard earned time and effort mastering the holo's.



"Give into your fear and feed my hate." -'Krys Legacy-Dark Jedi Knight
Starsider
"I hunt all jedi regardless of faction." -Krys- Swordswoman/Bh extrodinare
"The way of the fist, the code of the rifle." -Fitto Egou- TKM/Master Rifleman
"If you need a buff dont look for me." -'Chris- Slave Doctor to all above
krwth
Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:39 am
#349


I would like to participate in this thread, but I don't feel that any of us have enough information to make intelligent comments. For example, are we still talking about a system where one character's actions unlock the ability to create some a new, force sensitive character? Or can an existing character become a Jedi in the new system? I have many questions, but this isn't a Q&A post. (As an aside, where is the Q&A post? I see lots of Q's, but very few A's). Anyhow, here's my 2 cents:


Anyone should be allowed to undertake the quest to discover their force sensitivity. In order to become a novice Jedi, they must surrender all existing skills. (One cannot pour tea into a full cup). As an initiate, they are assigned a Jedi trainer, as in the current system. Each time they go for training, they must first complete a quest, to prove their worthiness. These quests should include choices. One choice leads to the dark side, another to the light side. The trainer can give feedback about their choices. Once they reach Padawan, their trainer tells them they must find a new master to study under and sends them on a larger quest. Their choices during that quest determine whether their new trainer is a dark jedi or light. Again, they must perform quests in order to prove their worthiness for additional training.


Since anyone can attempt to discover their force sensitivity, those quests might require a variety of skills from different professions, sort of like the existing hologrinding but not quite so mindless and cruel. It could be something like the theme parks. For example, there could be an NPC ateach med center who tells you that you can measure someone's force sensitivity, but that the devices are now illegal, but he knows someone who used to make them. At each med center, it would be a different NPC, who wants different things done before he will tell you where to find the person with the scanner. Maybe you would have to play music at his daughter's wedding, or wipe up a gang of thugs. Maybe bring him a Krayt peral, who knows?


Eventually, you get a waypoint to an NPC who used to make those scanners. Maybe there is one such guy on each advanced planet, and which one you get is random, or depends on which med center you started at. He can give you a schematic to make the scanner, but only if you do something for him first. Maybe pay a huge pile of credits, or or give him a stack of rancor hides, or cook a ton of food for his son's Bar Mitvah. Whatever. Once you get the schematic, which can only be used once, you will need to get a wide variety of rare items to build it. Advanced crafting skills may be called for.


Once you get it working, you might need advanced medical skills to operate it, or perhaps you will need to find a jedi to use it for you. Perhaps that could tie in with the existing quests around the old jedi temple. Once you find a jedi and give them the scanner, they tell you that you have what it takes to begin training, and they send you off to your own personal, hidden trainer. That's when the real work would begin.


mauimike
Sun Feb 22, 2004 2:10 am
#350


good point! Due to the lack of jedi in the time period the idea of a "jedi trainer" doesn't work. It would make more sense for the training to reflect a more natural progression based on your actions in various situations. The more random the better without being unfair to all parties. It should have more of the learning from within kind of feel.
Jonny_FS
Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:30 am
#351


I think this thread should be called what you do after you open your Force Sensitive Slot , because when u open you FSS u are not a jedi, i think the devs are asking what quests you should get after you open you FSS not what quests to do to open your FSS , being FS and being a Jedi are completely 2 different things. I think a lot of ppl are confused about that. If im wrong ok if not ok.


thanks


and to the thread ya id like some quests to do after i open my FS slot on my path to becoming a jedi.



______________________________

What more do you want to know......

I would like a job working for SOE/Lucasarts so i can help out with SWG game making process. I have some great ideas for SW content in the game. but i will prob never get a job there....
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