Development Cycle Archive

I guess overall the new system is a great improvement. A person can now become a Jedi by playing their perferred class/template and not have to drop skills or train ones that they ordinarily wouldn't in most cases. The quests look very strong, and I'm looking forward to getting glowy to try them out. Kudos to the designers for proving that the SWG engine can do more than hunt/kill/loot for quests.

However. (You knew that was coming, didn't you?)

There remains a significant philosophic/design problem with the new system. I chose not to hologrind because of two reasons. One, I saw that it was destroying the social fabric of the game, which was deeply disturbing to me personally. I know that my own abstinence did little or nothing to counteract that, but I never turned down a hunt because I was a dancer this week either. (Or refused to buff because I was a Teras Kasi, for that matter.) Secondly, I refused to embark upon the hologrind because, quite frankly, grinding isn't fun. Period. If it were, chances are we wouldn't call it grinding; We'd refer to it as "playing the game."

Given that I've not in this lifetime encountered *anyone* who enjoys grinding for something (Most enjoy the achievement, but not the grind), I am quite puzzled as to why the devs felt it necessary to include a grinding element to the new system in the form of the FS skill xp costs. It seems counter-intuitive to replace one form of grinding with another, even if it's preceded by some really great content. By my math (which is based on the TC data), a person needs to gain nearly 75 million weapon experience and the 7 million combat experience that would go with that in order to train one tree of the FS skills. That's only 2/3 of the way to padawn, after which I'm unclear as to what happens. In total, over 100 million weapon xp and 10 million combat xp will be needed to train the skills to become a padawan and *begin* the Jedi path. This is after the need to wait through the appropriate phases of the village and do the aforementioned quests.

So aside from some obscure rationale that becoming a Jedi needs to be painful, why re-introduce such a massive grind? I appreciate that Jedi need to be at least somewhat difficult to obtain, and I think the rarity factor has sort of flown out the window at this point in the name of making an enjoyable game. (c.f Baj's post about keeping Jedi rare....except mine!) Yet to introduce still another grind as a way of achievement in the game seems a poor way of eliminating the hologrind.

I hate to curse the darkness without lighting a candle, so just some thoughts on how to change or eliminate the grinding elements of the FS system:

First, reduce the experience numbers needed for each box or increase the rewards significantly. I'd encourage the former, because these are simply FS skills, not true Jedi skills. A factor of ten or so might be appropriate.

Second, remove the skill point exchange system entirely to be replaced with:

Third, include a "Force Assisted" success check to most all skill checks in the game. Similar to critical successes in crafting, a Force Assisted success would grant a small amount (perhaps 10%?) of the action's xp reward in FS xp of the appropriate sort. This XP is then directly spent on improving your FS skills. I realize this may generate additional server overhead, but I suspect that checking for a roll in the >90% range shouldn't be too hard...

Fourth, with each skill box gained, gradually increase the percentage given on a Force Assisted success. This simulates the attunement of the developing Jedi to the Force, and allows for a gradual ramping up of the pace of advancement for the player.

Fifth, leave the present quest and skill branch unlocking system in place. It's well designed and acts as a timing gate to limit the number of Jedi.

Finally, as time allows, introduce new story driven quests that allow a player to directly earn FS xp. Make the quests repeatable, but the FS xp only given once, unless the storyline and difficulty of the quest are such that it would be infinitely repeatable.

Just some thoughts, and I know it's pie in the sky at this point, but I nonetheless hope to see the grind replaced by a system that rewards playing the game and doesn't have exponentially high requirements to defeat (and by default require) grinding.

(Oh, and assuming that the assumptions about glowing are right, how's about throwing us veterans a bone by allowing the Cries of Alderaan badges to matter?)

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-Charin Ianaro, Aventine Neighborhood, Temenos, Naboo

"I was born to laugh--I learned to laugh through my tears.
I was born to love--I'm going to learn to love without fear."
-Karin Bergquist/Linford Detweiler (www.overtherhine.com)

Yes, I do... I am however capped in about 8 different types of experience points at this moment. I have done just about every POI and themepark, except the ones I can't do due to faction. So what the heck am I suppose to be doing now that I have done everything and I have finished the last professions I am ever going to do other then Jedi?

Sure Jedi will require hours upon hours of grinding, but it is something I have wanted since I first heard about this game. My friend and I have long planned on becoming Dark Jedi's and killing LEIA!! ok so we know we can't kill Leia as she is just a CONTAINTER! but still....

Bunz MDE
Wanderhome
Vendors: South of Coronet, and Honour's Keep Dantooine

Compliment time... you guys dont get enough of this, I know, but I wanted to say a big big big thank you for fixing vehicle warping. i've been trying to do it... dismounting at fullspeed, on hills, in water, etc, and I cant get myself to warp when getting off my bike. you guys rock for fixing this, thanks

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High Chancellor- KGB SWG
Hotron - Master Riflewoman, Master Pikeman
Nereus - Master Doctor, Master Politician
Ysaanne - Secretist Extraordinaire

"Compliment time... you guys dont get enough of this, I know, but I wanted to say a big big big thank you for fixing vehicle warping. i've been trying to do it... dismounting at fullspeed, on hills, in water, etc, and I cant get myself to warp when getting off my bike. you guys rock for fixing this, thanks" <<<<<

Logan' Dallas
Eclipse Server

Day one vet.. Incase that matters or something..

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Last night was a joke on Chimaera, bikes everywhere because no-one could store them. Generation of multiple pets / droids that no-one could control or store, crafting not working - no countdown and tools stuck at 'in-use' status. No vendors on the map etc...............

It was unplayable because all the vehicles and pets (not the mention the noise) ground my fast system from the usual 20-30fps to 6-8fps.

'SOE shoots at foot and hits for 2500pts damage'

Exactly, for those of us who couldnt care less a bout beign jedi, and glowing in the dark. What's in it for us ? Except lag, and an unplayable game, and buff prices going throught the roof ?

1. Good thing i've gathered about all this is that you have limited the persons beign able to get in the village! Cool! Excellent! Now tell this to all and everyone! So they can stop with this jedi BS, and go back to doing what they used to do.

"Forgiveness is between them and god. Its my job to make sure they meet" - Denzel Washington - Man On Fire

- I support keeping & balancing the current combat system You can too

- Neo Terran Alliance -
Gaarowaroo
Master Weaponsmith, Master Teras Kasi

yeah you could do the whole log out for so long thing.. free up server space then other people can have a crack at things.. you may deliver your message to the devs and thier bosses.... you may make a statement... and the people in charge may listen.. may fix this... or .. do like me and say screw you we make tons of everything else and we have several new games in the works.. and even if half the current player base leaves.. we get 5 more to replace each quiter..so in short.. your wasting your time.. and i very seirously doubt you can pull off such a large scale log out ... if so congratulations im impressed... either way.. there has just been some fixes implemented... time to see if the unlock was changed on us behind our backs YET again

I know its been said and resaid, but I figured I may as well climb on the cross and nail myself in too.

The first thing that upset me was the way to attain inner glow. I am one of the people who spent a great deal of time collecting badges when they were purposeless. The beauty of them was that they were obsolete, simple bragging rights, a way of displaying your love for the game and all it's intricacies on your sleeve. It was a beautiful simple pleasure, and now it's ruined. With all the people bobbling around from POI to POI, quest after quest with no appreciation for them you've turned the badges into gaudy costume jewelry you'd see on a five dollar hooker. You should have come up with a new system. You could have made a hunt list of creatures across the galaxy which needed to be examined or killed giving a sort of sub-badge, proving you've taken the time and effort to go looking for them and also providing rangers with a new value in the game. You could have done a lot of things but instead you sullied a beautiful thing because it was there, and therefore convenient.

The second thing is the way the groups are selected. I have never been a grinder, I work my professions myself. I don't use ultimate macro scripts, I don't tumble my way to doctor, I kill for combat xp, heal the wounded at starports for medic xp, and I sit there diligently when I dance making conversation and remaining a part of the game. Instead of rewarding the people who have performed as a member of our society, you said that the ones who fast tracked it from profession to profession deserve the credit ( I know some of you have many professions of your own earning and I don't speak about you, I applaud your effort and you know who you are). Why not award the people who took up professions like Politician, a truly thankless task. Give the first trips to the temple to those of us who have spent the most time online, and not AFK (I know this is unrealistic since there is probably no log tracking this but Im making a point). Based maybe on seniority, or those who have spent time cultivating guilds which have made major contributions to the world. The best vendors get a go at it too. You instead came up with the easiest possible to implement solution and for that you are hereby chastised.

Thirdly, the jedi's who are already in the system and can't get into the temple to train....Shame on You!!! They are already jedi, should they not automatically be granted access. In this I also include the people who unlocked between 9-10. Have they not waited long enough? I would myself wait a month more if only it meant these people, many of them dedicated gamers and good people would be granted access (in this I speak only for myself since Im sure many people would boo me on this notion).

And finally, everyone give the dev's a break. Take a breath at reeling from your shock at what I just said, but I mean it. They are trying to fix their mistakes. They are no doubt doing it in a way which they feel is viable, and while they are not neccessarily choosing the best way, to err is human, to forgive divine. There are surely attributing factors which we are unable to have knowledge of (though they could inform if they so wished of these factors though they do not, another unfortunate decision). The grinding system was stupid and weak, but at the very least they are trying to mend their errors. Let us be thankful that players in the future will not have to face the mind numbing stupidity of the former system. In time the gates will be open to all who deserve it, and this will be a forgotten memory.

To those of you who crashed the Corbantis server in protest, you are all childish jerks, many people lost time and effort they had spent working on their characters from the backwards jump. You did not punish the devs, instead you punished others just like yourself who are angry and upset also. I feel no pity for you if you are suspended,or removed to the last group to enter the temple, or have your inner glow and all your badges stripped from you. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things and the violent or destructive measure is always the wrong. Let us not forget the very same people we hate for their errors are the ones who made this game. If we did not love it, we would not be so passionate about it. We owe them our gratitude hand in hand with our disappointment. Bless the devs, and curse them, but do so in the proper medium.

Candor Oerkitiani-Corbantis-To those of you who know me well, you know I speak wisdom. I speak from long time experience and a ceaseless devotion to the galaxy.

The only issues I have discovered since pub 10 went live are :

1) starports and major cities seem to dissapear from the map(crtl V) an example of this is that last night on dant after finishing the warren i wanted to go to the agro outpost as its the closest, it did not display on the map nor was the waypoint in the list on the side of the screen.

2)When trying to use a ticket collector in starports such ascoronet or theed, I get a message saying that "I am unable to complete this operation in my presant state" my state being the same as always healthy, and with no TEF or anything else.

3)when pressing crtl D to open my data pad it also sometimes opens my inventory.and I'll have to close them both and re-open my datapad again.this is'nt really a major issue just a minor annoyance.

other than that I'm just pleased that pub 10 is out. and I was quite pleased to see the addition of ship calling data terms in starports.

this obviously is for when JTLS comes out next month.

"Jedi. Their order is a fading light in the dark. corrupt and arrogant.They must be punished." - Asaj Ventress Clone wars Micro series

Kind of stupid that you must be a fighter to gain "content badges" and therefore letting those get the edge of getting Glowing with the Force. There should be a way for crafters to attain such badges,

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01011101000111010110.................................U I support Pre-NGE U.

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Oddly enough, I haven't experience any problem on Starsider. The publish seems very successful to me, with the exception of not knowing when/where the old man and/or the Sith will show up. I didn't hologrind at all..not even one profession. I log in yesterday with feeling the force and got visited by the old man within an hour. I'm now waiting on the Sith to show up. The only bug that I've noticed is with the ticket collector droid. He does say something like you can't access this object in your current state. This usually occurs when you're moving and haven't come to a complete stop. So I waited an extra second and clicked again...Voila...seems to work fine to me..if that's the worst bug that I find, then i'm thrilled with the new publish! Healing works for me, state effects work for me, tickets/starports and bikes all work with no glitches. Love the new bike calling features..that rocks. I use that method exclusively now and never have a problem storing/calling my bike. Wished everyone else was having my luck with the new publish.

Visivius Alca'Vacho

Master Doctor
Master Swordsman