Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Weekly Roundtable Discussion (Week Ending 3-29-04)
Page 25 of 25
LARREN
Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:08 am
#313
Kade_Deveron wrote:
I'd like to comment on the issue of armor. Armor in SWG is clearly too powerful. It encourages soloing to virtual exclusing of grouping, makes being unarmored an unviable option (esp in PvP), and creates a cookie cutter environment where everyone is wearing their 70%+ composite. It also leaves factional armor (and uniforms) unviable (the cost on faction armor doesnt help).
The fundamental problem is that the "penalty" for wearing armor isnt really a penalty. Buffs are so powerful and easy to get that everyone runs around in their armor and buffed. In order to balance armor, forget penalties to secondary stats. Try penalties to defensive skills (ie ranged/melee, KD, dizzy, etc..) or to weapon speed. Armor is cumbersome and should make players easier to hit as they are less mobile (but allowing the armor to absorb damaage of course), leaving unarmored players options for pvp or for, heaven forbid, factional armor.
Sorry to drag back the flow of the fread to the armour issue but it'd like to add my bit to the subject...
I agree with Kade's suggestion that there should be more detrimental penalties for wearing the 'uber' armours, lets be realistic here someone walking around wearing half the hull of a battlecruiser would be far easier to hitdue to the impracticalities of having to carry the stuff on their person.
But there's also the other aspect of this hugely over-rated armour and that relates to the marketplace in game.I have very little experience of other servers, but on Chilastra it can be near impossible to find an armourvendor that stocks anything other than Composite or High-kinetic ubese armours because thats what appears to be the epitome and therefore itwill sell. If you want to find a full set of Bone, Chitin, Tantel or Padded then you're going to have to nail down an armoursmith and get it custom made to order, which defeats the purpose of having the facility to place static Vendors in game really.
One of the smaller, but no less great things about SWG in the beginning (before Crafters began to produce uber-composite) was that players did truely look unique, each adopting bits of armour to suit their lifestyles or deciding just to create an oufit they liked the look of, now it seems that every other player is becoming a clone due to the necessities of hunting and the PvP situation. You either wear uber-armour or you don't stand a chance.
This neither reflects the authenticity of the SW Universe nor promotes the kind of tactical thinking required to overcome a situation where the odds are against you. If you can simply walk into danger wearing an incredible set of Composite and know that you will survive easily, you have no need to think about it nor have anychallenge anymore... Having to play 'intelligently' has gone out the proverbial window and so to has a compelling element of gameplay that would have ensured greater longevity to the game in many player'seyes.
Buffs too do not help this situation either. You need to be buffed now to fight in PvP because you already know that the other person will be.At least with using Spice to boost your statistics,there was an element of payback. You found yourself heavily outgunned in a situation and decided to drop some Neutron Pixie, it wasn't a decision to be taken lightly because if you got it wrong youcould escape one situation only to find yourself dropping to the floor comatose in the midst of another threat, but that was theconsequence of using Spice as alife-line. Where is the pro's and con's balance of using buffs?? What are the consequenses??
From a PvP perspective, Composite Armour and buffs have not given any real advantages to playersanyhow. Both sides will use composite and buffs because they have to in order to level the playing field; whichis no different in the end from the level playing field availible where neither side hasbuffs or composite... just without the individuality of players NOT allwearing composite.
The solutionis not as simple as tojust removeboth these elements from the game, but I believe some serious thought does need to be directedto these areas before every player in the game becomesa compo-clone and disenchanted with the sorry state of affairs.
Bring back choice, bring back individuality, bring back challenge and peril!!!
erroroccured
Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:52 pm
#314
Why should the PVE crowd be punished and not allowed to partake in the galactic wars?
My friends and I are strictly PVE. We Would love to be able to be overt running around playing the game realizing if a ship drops down an armada of opposing faction NPC's then we are going to die.
But due to the PVP aspect of the game, it strictly prohbits us from taking part in one of the biggest aspects of the game.
AS soon as i fight an npc faction then i get a flag and guess what is next yes PVP. Like I said before, I do not enjoy nor do I want to partake in any form of PVP. I just do not find any sort of excitement or fun in PVP.
I would like to see an option where players are allowed to choose whether or not their character is PVP or PVe. This way everyone can enjoy the game and not just PVP.
I am not taking away from people who like PVP, I am just saying allow us PVE to enjoy the game as well.
Thanks
RedMangg
Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:47 pm
#316
REBOOTS
Seeing as the Network Status page has been indicating that they haven't been happening for the past 2 weeks, I was wondering if anyone knew if they were going to adjust the reboots (that are not scheduled to happen) with Daylight savings.
BRP1
Sun Mar 28, 2004 10:33 pm
#317
OK TH, I really hope you're reading all these.
I have a few ideas I'd like to post and comments to make.
1) Skill points. I struggle with this all the time because I personally think it is settoo low. I was an armorsmith for about 5 months but gave it up because my character was simply too weak to go out and have fun in the galaxy. It got real boring just making armor and hearing how everyone else is going to all these cool places. What I'd like to see is separate skill points. Have say 250 skill points that can be used for combat related, and say 50 that can be used for crafting related ONLY. This would allow people to be crafters, miners etc and still have a great time exploring and fighting in the galaxy. If a crafter wanted more than the 50 crafting skill points then it would have to come out of the combat ones making him slightly weaker than others (but not so drastically).
2) gaining Skill Points. Second issue with skill points. Everyone has the same amount, which means that some basic standard layouts have become extremely prevelant. To mix this up some, I would like to see quests (they can be long/drawn out) that will allow a person to gain additional skill points. Say for every skill quest they can get one skill point. This wouldn't upset the balance too much but would make for great content for people to chase. Second, have peoplepay lots and lots of money to actually get the skill point at the end of the quest. ex. You go and work for a cloner running 10 missions for him (can be based on your character type). When they are completed, hewill offer you a cloned version of yourself that has been 'enhanced'. Thisenhancement gives you 1 extra skill point but is extremely expensive. You would then have to work for someone else to get another'enhancement'. Prices should be real expensive, say1 mill for the first skill point, 2 mill for 2nd skill point (from 2nd quest), 4 mill for 3rd, 8 mill for 4th etc. This would really help boost the economy and give an outlet for those crafters and multimillionairs.
3) Badges: with the advent of hundreds of badges throughout the galaxy, the whole concept of badges is worthless. It used to be that if you saw someone with the mark of intellect or altruism you were like WOW! now everyone has got pages of them, and all they had to do is ride their bike there to get the badges. The whole Badge system needs to be revamped, so people can wear them with pride.
4) Jedi and Jediwannabe's : It has been made clear that the new system for getting a jedi in publish 10 will be quest based. It was also stated that the force sensitive slot will no longer be given but instead will be the character you are currently playing. I have 2 issues with this. 1) If you get rid of the 2nd force sensitive slot, what happens to all the jedi currently out there? do they get a 2nd slot when noone else does? or are you going to take away all their hard work?2) It will ruin the fun of my character if every time he goes out to check a mine etc a BH will be waiting for him (when he has FS access). I would like my jedi to be separate so that I can play him periodically, but not have to give up being my current character with all my friends etc. I strongly suspect that if the BH system for hunting jedi isnt changed getting the FS access on my character would ruin the game for me. And not getting a jedi at all (the other option) would also ruin the game for me...
5) Holo Grinders: Has anyone anywhere said what exactly we are going to get in compensation if we dont get the jedi? If I grinded out 15 professions just to have you change it to quest system and I loose everything I'd be upset.
6) Jedi Quests: Are you going to tell us where, and how to do the quests? or is it going to be a secret causing all the headaches the grinding formula did?
7) Quests in General: I am constantly hearing about this quest or that quest that someone has done that I've never heard of. The Dev's need to come up with a system where we can look up the starting points for ALL quests, so that we can go and explore them and enjoy all the hard work the Dev's are putting into the computer program. You made points of interest, could you not do the same for All the quests?
BRP1
Sun Mar 28, 2004 10:35 pm
#318
OK TH, I really hope you're reading all these.
I have a few ideas I'd like to post and comments to make.
1) Skill points. I struggle with this all the time because I personally think it is settoo low. I was an armorsmith for about 5 months but gave it up because my character was simply too weak to go out and have fun in the galaxy. It got real boring just making armor and hearing how everyone else is going to all these cool places. What I'd like to see is separate skill points. Have say 250 skill points that can be used for combat related, and say 50 that can be used for crafting related ONLY. This would allow people to be crafters, miners etc and still have a great time exploring and fighting in the galaxy. If a crafter wanted more than the 50 crafting skill points then it would have to come out of the combat ones making him slightly weaker than others (but not so drastically).
2) gaining Skill Points. Second issue with skill points. Everyone has the same amount, which means that some basic standard layouts have become extremely prevelant. To mix this up some, I would like to see quests (they can be long/drawn out) that will allow a person to gain additional skill points. Say for every skill quest they can get one skill point. This wouldn't upset the balance too much but would make for great content for people to chase. Second, have peoplepay lots and lots of money to actually get the skill point at the end of the quest. ex. You go and work for a cloner running 10 missions for him (can be based on your character type). When they are completed, hewill offer you a cloned version of yourself that has been 'enhanced'. Thisenhancement gives you 1 extra skill point but is extremely expensive. You would then have to work for someone else to get another'enhancement'. Prices should be real expensive, say1 mill for the first skill point, 2 mill for 2nd skill point (from 2nd quest), 4 mill for 3rd, 8 mill for 4th etc. This would really help boost the economy and give an outlet for those crafters and multimillionairs.
3) Badges: with the advent of hundreds of badges throughout the galaxy, the whole concept of badges is worthless. It used to be that if you saw someone with the mark of intellect or altruism you were like WOW! now everyone has got pages of them, and all they had to do is ride their bike there to get the badges. The whole Badge system needs to be revamped, so people can wear them with pride.
4) Jedi and Jediwannabe's : It has been made clear that the new system for getting a jedi in publish 10 will be quest based. It was also stated that the force sensitive slot will no longer be given but instead will be the character you are currently playing. I have 2 issues with this. 1) If you get rid of the 2nd force sensitive slot, what happens to all the jedi currently out there? do they get a 2nd slot when noone else does? or are you going to take away all their hard work?2) It will ruin the fun of my character if every time he goes out to check a mine etc a BH will be waiting for him (when he has FS access). I would like my jedi to be separate so that I can play him periodically, but not have to give up being my current character with all my friends etc. I strongly suspect that if the BH system for hunting jedi isnt changed getting the FS access on my character would ruin the game for me. And not getting a jedi at all (the other option) would also ruin the game for me...
5) Holo Grinders: Has anyone anywhere said what exactly we are going to get in compensation if we dont get the jedi? If I grinded out 15 professions just to have you change it to quest system and I loose everything I'd be upset.
6) Jedi Quests: Are you going to tell us where, and how to do the quests? or is it going to be a secret causing all the headaches the grinding formula did?
7) Quests in General: I am constantly hearing about this quest or that quest that someone has done that I've never heard of. The Dev's need to come up with a system where we can look up the starting points for ALL quests, so that we can go and explore them and enjoy all the hard work the Dev's are putting into the computer program. You made points of interest, could you not do the same for All the quests?
Glum_Moonfist
Mon Mar 29, 2004 12:51 am
#319
Please inform us hologrinders if we are wasting our time grinding (are you taking away ALL 2nd character slots?) or if we need to buckle down to make sure we get in under the wire! Or perhaps you have something else planned?
You really need to make your intentions know.
Chickenlad
Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:47 am
#320
Round Table?1 Reply to 14 pages of questions and concerns? God, why bother.
Chickenlad
Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:48 am
#321
One thing, I noticed a small blip patch which updated the "bug report" feature...does this mean it gets sent to someone now, instead of just automatically deleted?
Chimpuat
Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:35 am
#322
i realize this is an impossible dream, and will never be implemented while i remain playing this game, but maybe future generations of swg players can benefit from my suggestion...
regarding armor: encumbrance, in the light of easily acquired medical buffs, is a joke. it's so easy to get amazing buffs, that no one really seems to care about encumbrance at all anymore. i think it's time to consider putting the 'encumber' back into encumbrance.
in diablo 2, you could wear many different kinds of armor, but if you wanted heavy armor, it affected your character in a predictable manner: it slowed you down. if a player wants to wear a full suit of 70% composite, cut down their weapon speed, their terrain negotiation, encumber counterattack, dodge, or reduce melee/ranged defense. put a penalty into wearing armor that's more like real life, and give up on the failed notion of affecting secondary stats. i would say it only affects people who can't afford to pay 6k for a full set of buffs, but anyone with composite armor most likely has plenty of credits left over to pay for buffs.
create a weighting system for the armor. i know it's not easy, i know it's a coding nightmare, but so is everything else needed to save this game from becoming star wars ghost-town, instead of star wars galaxies.
Likaeus
Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:39 am
#323
BRP1 wrote:
7) Quests in General: I am constantly hearing about this quest or that quest that someone has done that I've never heard of. The Dev's need to come up with a system where we can look up the starting points for ALL quests, so that we can go and explore them and enjoy all the hard work the Dev's are putting into the computer program. You made points of interest, could you not do the same for All the quests?
Umm, that's kind of the point in almost any game. Get out, explore, and talk to NPCs to discover information about quests, missions, stories, and background data. It's part of the immersion factor of an RPG. They do announce the introduction of major quests (or at least give a hint that a player may want to check out a certain area) such as Bestine, the various story arcs, the new Lab, the upcoming Corvette, etc. To just hand out a list of every mission or quest would be about the same as the badge system you complained about. Everyone would do every quest that they could (faction permitting) and they would become meaningless. Rewards should go to the players that play the game and explore, not those that sit back and essentially have all the information handed to them. Spoiler sites exist for those who can't be bothered or need some help. It shouldn't be up to the game company to supply information of this nature.
Thunderheart
Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:01 am
#324
BRP1 wrote:
OK TH, I really hope you're reading all these.
Im reading them (so are other people) . 
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