Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one? (II)
FantasticPlastic
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:37 pm
#274
Fire-spray wrote:This is a repeat of what i said before, but it was more of a way to become FS rather then an actual answer to your question of Known versus unknown.Here is a way that will keep Jedi down to dedicated players for at least a while. Eventually it will be trivialized and people will run through it faster as the means become known, but here goes...-----Make the quest to become a Jedi like the Everquest Epic Quests (without the Idiocy)----------Each starting class has a different quest. Aka. Entertainers will have a different quest than Marksman who will have it different from scouts etc etc.-----Involve multiple people, but do not make it so that a person has to have a group of 20 to do it. For example, part of the Marksman's quest may require them taking down a particularly difficult mob for a piece of an ancient Lightsaber... He cannot do this solo, but do not make it the frickin Deathwatch bunker. A group of 6-10 who are well prepared can get in and get out if they are smart.----- Make it take some time, but do not make it so that it involves "camping". You can put some grind into it without making it a grief to your players. For example, an Artisan may have to find some very rare resources to combine, and then must go through a series of quests to gain a schematic...once they get the schematic and use the resources they create a modern day "holocron" of sorts that gives them the location of their next clue.-----Make travel a necessity, make players travel all over the galaxy, a minimum of one stop per planet at the VERY least. Get folks out there to see this beautiful world you guys have created. Make some use out of Talus and Rori lol.-----Make badges and POI'S worth something. Say, for example, the person that the Pc's need to talk to to begin their quest will not talk to them until they are master in at least one novice profession and have aquired XX number of badges from themparks and exploration.----- Let me repeat DO NOT MAKE these quests/this journey so that only uber PA's are able to accomplish it, or that they require hours of camping stupid things, or items that only drop once every other blue moon......just thought that beared repeating (that was the downfall of the EQ Epic quests.) Keep these long and difficult, by sheer magnitude and a touch of randomness....not through monotony.-----Make it take time, but do not make it a money sink. Some of run missions to get by, and some run them into the ground to be rich, Some craft for cash and some craft for xp/fun. Don't make it break your bank.Example of a quest:I have never played an entertainer, but this is just an idea of how to go about it.After hitting master entertainer, and aquiring enough badges, the entertainer goes and talks to the quest starter.1. First the quest starter sends them on errands to pull together the best outfit for the "show to end all shows"2. The player then begins to track down this outfit that can consist of 5-9 pieces. It can be dropped loot, or tailoring schematics earned from quests that they in turn use another player to create thereby involving other profs.3. After completing the outfit portion, the quest starter may require the PC to prove themselves as an entertainer and require them to earn badges of entertaining from major NPC's. For example, the player must earn the Badge of Jabba's approval. Which also means they would have to earn the Jabba's badge of trust. If they have already done that, they go straight in and he may send them on a few quests to "take care of some issues that will free up some of his time". Thus these quests done, Jabba will consent to watch/listen to the PC. Allow the PC to then "perform" for Jabba for X amount of time resulting in the Badge of Jabba's approval.4. Repeat step 3 for the other themeparks (excepting where overt Rebels/Imps trying to perform for the opposite faction).5. Next have the Entertainer perform for a HOSTILE NPC. at the bottom of a dungeon. Of course this would have to be an instanced NPC. For example, the player would activate the starter npc for this after aquiring the other badges and an Instanced version would then spawn that was not targetable. The entertainer would have to find a way to the bottom of the dungeon and converse with the NPC then perform for them. AKA. The entertainer brings some friends to help him get to the bottom of the Fort Tusken, they fight their way in, get to the bottom and talk to the Tusken King. He watches the PC dance, nods approvingly, viola badge !!! Then tells the group that they had better leave and gives them either a secret exit out, or flags them as non hostile in some way to prevent having to fight all the way back out, or...screw em...make em fight it back out lol.6. After the player has aquired the badges of approval from the NPC's , the quest starter tells the pc that he must now find the back up band to start the show. He will give clues that lead to people who have info as to where this band member may be found. The trick here, is to make sure that the bandmember does not always pop up in the same place...then it becomes cookie cutter and folks will run through it too fast. Make them pop up randomly like BH targets after the player has spoken to enough "contacts". Also do not make it so that the contact just says "oh yeah i saw him talking to soandso on this planet". Make them do a destroy or delivery mission to get the information...aka time sink.After the player does this for a 4-5 piece band and gets them through yet other quests to agree to perform,the player can talk to the quest starter to arrange for the time and place of the show.7. The Show. After arranging the particulars, the player makes their way to the event......which can utilize some of the precreated theaters. amphitheaters. cantina's, town squares etc etc. When the PC gets there, the band is set up and ready to go, when the player takes the stage, a system message like a shout, or even a planetary message goes around that a terrific show is about to start. Finally, the player must perform for x amount of time....with this caveat......the more people watching, the shorter the time it take to complete the show. This would encourage people to talk their friends and PA's and perfect stranger to come out and see the culmination of their massive undertaking. After so long, the player is told they feel a tingle and a surge of energy unlike anything they have experienced before. All of their trials and tribulations have expanded the scope of their thinking and reasoning.....they have become sensitive to the greater worlds around them.....and to the force. At the end of the quest, the player has opened their Force Sensitivity.Again, this is a very very rough first draft pounded out very quickly while i am at work. But personally i think this could be refined and expanded upon in so many ways, to make it not only fun, but different for every player. Additionally, let people know up front that it requires ALOT of time, energy, work and patience.......as it should to become a Jedi.
/agree
This is all great advice, the developers would do well to read this carefully and think on it hard.
One thing that would be nice is if the "Quest Starter" NPCs weren't static. If they (a) moved around in the cities, or if (b) any of the various NPCs you meet have a chance of being the Quest Starter, but they may only stay that way for an hour or so, then it would shift to a different NPC. That way you wouldn't have people always knowing exactly where to go, but it wouldn't be such a tedious grind like a random spawn in the desert.
Odeko Resci
JediNewb
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:37 pm
#275
OHMSS225 wrote:
Look at the early theories that players had on how to unlock, and follow those. The first theories they came up with were the ways they wanted to become force sensitive- what they thought would be fun.
This is exactly what I think. The early "theories" we all had sounded MUCH more fun than simply "Master a bunch of professions".
I DO, however, want there to be some sort of "guidance" rather than everyone trying to do 20 bazillion random things (regardless of what some people think, there is a TON of content in the game) and not doing the "one" thing extra they missed. You know?
-Ben
Norrinas
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:50 pm
#276
Who cares, make it easy, have an open slot with beginning sabre and all... then make the Jedi quest completely and utterly overdrawn and boring.
What about some static content like battlefields where we fight for something meaningful? Perks or something..
UnknownX11
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:57 pm
#277
The path to gaining force sensitivity absolutely should be known. For one thing, since there are already Jedi out there, you would basically be punishing the people that didn't hologrind there way there. It's not really fair to those that have chosen not to hologrind.
Blackjack_Nova
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:58 pm
#278
Force sensitivity should NOT be mysterious.
THE POWERGAMERS HAVE THERES, LET US CASUAL GAMERS WITH WIFES AND KIDS AND 4 ACCOUNTS GET OURS!!
The game will be VERY frustrating if we do not have a path to obtain Jedi that allows us to know our efforts count.Having a movingtarget is one thing,like theJedi enclave, but to not even have a target, how can one set a goal??
I have put in my dues for ayear, Ido not want to guessmy efforts aremaking any progress.Why did the dev team decide to useHolos? Becausepeople wanted some direction. If we have something along those lines that is good, but we need a direction.
I have put in my dues for ayear, Ido not want to guessmy efforts aremaking any progress.Why did the dev team decide to useHolos? Becausepeople wanted some direction. If we have something along those lines that is good, but we need a direction.
Xeras
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:59 pm
#279
There must be some kind of mechinism that tells you that you are on the right path. The whole mysterious aka, "Blind questing" is ridiculus. Make it hard, make it different for all, but dont blind the people looking for the path.
Jerii_SDLC
Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:03 am
#280
If you make it uber hard now since you can't unlock hologrinding and do this quest thing where you have to do such and such and it takes about 6 months or so...you're gonna have a few pissed off people on your hands. Mainly the hologrinders that didn't unlock before P9 and the span between P9 and P10. More or less if you make it difficult now you're just flipping the middle finger to the entire non-Jedi populace.
I personally don't see how in the world you're going to codethis so its different for every single person out there. I mean you got people that only do crafting and such and don't havethe necessary points to invest in an elite combat profession. To me the entire system is messed up. That was a given from the day SOE said "Here, hologrind with these and you'll unlock". **edit**? That ain't a way to play a game. That's just saying "Go back to work for 8+ hours a day playing a game where you pay us". The game is supposed to be enjoyable but not everything is supposed to be gift wrapped. To that extent I agree. If a newly created character logs on then no that person has ZERO right to even start becoming FS or whatever the hell you guys are calling it now. Credit should be given to the vets that have waded through this mess of a hologrinding game and stayed here constantly hoping that this "miracle" Patch10 isn't a farce after all.
Don't gift wrap it but don't make it so a newlycreated character can easily do it right off the bat. Basically I think it should be done like how some peeps on here have stated: How many POI and other badges you have. If you get 50 badges then hey you get a swank screeny that says something along the lines of "You feel pretty groovy and mysterious" or some RP mumbo jumbo like that. If you make it a mystery odds are some crackhead out there with no time for a life will sit there and break it. Then he/she/it will post it and break your little system causing you to create another system to fix the system. Just make it known that you have to do such and such and boom there you go. You get your fancy skills and stuff like that. Thus it makes it so that new characters cant start off doing force stuff but also it lets casual gamers get involved aswell.
Ok my rants done.
PS: Put realistic flight physics into JTL. kthnxbye
WillNeketo
Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:04 am
#281
Let me try and help some of you see something.
It seems many of you who are against the mysterious path worry about grinding thereafter the path is found.
Now I understand many of us are still troubled by the memories of the holo-craze, but I highly doubt that there will be griding involved again, if the DEVs learned there lesson.
With this said, who said that the path was going to involve griding? Just because its mysterious doesnt mean once its discovered everyone will try to "grind" it out, hell it may not even be grindable. For instance, mysterious could simply mean a dynamic set of npcs you must talk to scattered thrrough out all the POI's ,cities and outposts that give you and only you a mission to complete.
Dont tell the mass's this is how its done. Now its a mystery that cant be grinded once its found, why? Cause such a mechanic is ungrindable.
By mysterious I beleive they just mean finding the means to aquire, I dont beleive they mean its mysterious as in the holo's once were, where once the secret is out anyone can start grinding out the fscs from where they are standing.
It seems many of you who are against the mysterious path worry about grinding thereafter the path is found.
Now I understand many of us are still troubled by the memories of the holo-craze, but I highly doubt that there will be griding involved again, if the DEVs learned there lesson.
With this said, who said that the path was going to involve griding? Just because its mysterious doesnt mean once its discovered everyone will try to "grind" it out, hell it may not even be grindable. For instance, mysterious could simply mean a dynamic set of npcs you must talk to scattered thrrough out all the POI's ,cities and outposts that give you and only you a mission to complete.
Dont tell the mass's this is how its done. Now its a mystery that cant be grinded once its found, why? Cause such a mechanic is ungrindable.
By mysterious I beleive they just mean finding the means to aquire, I dont beleive they mean its mysterious as in the holo's once were, where once the secret is out anyone can start grinding out the fscs from where they are standing.
WolfofWar
Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:05 am
#282
It shouldnt be so much of a mystery as it should be more funand intruiguing. Let it differ from person to person ( maybe a random jedi spawn you have to find on some planet to start the quest or something) and let all professions be able to do it. Alot of people are gonna be mad if its solely a Combat oriented quest system.
LarsFamilyLandspeeder
Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:06 am
#283
Path to force-sensitivity should be somehow based on ancestry and use the character's last name to recreate a past family, like from before the clone wars. Read I, Jedi to get an idea of what I'm talking about. It's all about the story, you dig?
Well, I don't know how you're ever going to balance this out, changing the path to Force sensitivity, and thus, Jedi, when way too many people already have it. Jedi accounts are selling for upwards of $2,000, and if you make it harder than it used to be, you're screwing the people who aren't Jedi now. And it'd be nice if you could actually fix the professions that need fixing, instead of worrying about the power-player Jedi playerbase.
Jacinth
Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:06 am
#284
I vote for making it known, but personal. I am tired of being frustrated about not unlocking already. I want my FS slot, it's about time I get it.
LordMaxx
Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:07 am
#285
Well now that the barn door is open, sort of a waste to try and close it again. So Not myseterious, but not easy. several hard aspects. Im assuming this will mean many will have to change their templates...will a crafter suceed where a combat oriented character failed? Will we actually get credit for professions finished? Just make it interesting and story based, if we have to figure something out, the hardcore roleplayers can have fun figuring it out, the whiners can just go ask others... and the whiner will whine.
A known path, but hard.
Hojo_Hominygrits
Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:12 am
#286
It needs to be known. Stop with the mystery crap. As I said in the other thread, you had your shot at "mystery" and it was a huge failure. You guys need to make the Force accessible for everyone at varying levels. Be it the hardcore powergamer, or the guy with a wife and kids who only gets a few hours a day to play your game, we should all have access. I don't want to be denied because I have to jump through unknown magical hoops for 6 months to a year to become force sensitive. I want to know what I'm doing, and where I stand on my journey to Force sensitivity. And I want to see progress in a reasonable amount of time. That gives me a goal, and it keeps me playing.
It's quite obvious to you I'm sure that Star Wars, in spite of all its many other aspects, will ALWAYS be about Jedi and The Force. Many of us were running around with wiffle-ball bats pretending to be Jedi when we were kids. When we "played" at Star Wars, no one wanted to be anything BUT a Jedi. At least, not any of the kids I played Star Wars with. You're seeing just that in your game. At this point it's the understatement of the century that a lot of people are passionate about Jedi. So why put some limit on it? Make it rare and special on the back end (to quote another poster). Make the fight against the elements in the game (players and non-players) the limiting factor, but don't deny people from at least experiencing it. That's just plain dumb. So give the "mystery" junk a rest and give us our Force.
It's quite obvious to you I'm sure that Star Wars, in spite of all its many other aspects, will ALWAYS be about Jedi and The Force. Many of us were running around with wiffle-ball bats pretending to be Jedi when we were kids. When we "played" at Star Wars, no one wanted to be anything BUT a Jedi. At least, not any of the kids I played Star Wars with. You're seeing just that in your game. At this point it's the understatement of the century that a lot of people are passionate about Jedi. So why put some limit on it? Make it rare and special on the back end (to quote another poster). Make the fight against the elements in the game (players and non-players) the limiting factor, but don't deny people from at least experiencing it. That's just plain dumb. So give the "mystery" junk a rest and give us our Force.
Message Edited by Hojo_Hominygrits on 07-10-2004 01:13 PM